Nothing wrong with it, it's perfectly fine for a DD. I don't think it gets hate - but unlocking some extra oomph by upgrading with STi parts is so easy and relatively low-cost that it begs the question "Why not?" rather than "Why?" :wink:

 

The TD04 is also an ideal turbo for off-roading due to how early the powerband is.

 

Though it's my understanding that something like a td05-18g/20g would still be making more power/torque at every point along the curve...

most of the time , with a larger than td04 turbo, highway gas mileage goes up as it's not on the cusp of boost all the time

As well as the improvement in VE with the larger hotside. (contributing to better mpg)

I'm so on the fence between a td04-19t & a td05-18g, and these discussions never help.

 

In standard form, with the smaller compressor, the TD04-13T is fine for a DD. On the 2.5 engine the spool up, ie: the point where max boost is available, is very low so much so as to be almost unnoticeable. On the smaller 2L motor, spool up is around 2.5K which is fine although the EDM 2 liter turbo came with the even smaller TF035 blower that did it around 1.8K. Both of these units will run out of puff passed 5k as the 13T compressor is limited for the larger displacement engines but in something like a Toyota Glanza 1.3, the 13T it's perfectly able to keep the engine supplied with boost. If you wanted some more oomph but would like to keep the low end spool up, might I suggest looking at the TD04-19T which has a substantially larger compressor but the turbine is the same size thus the spool up remains low. The peculiar thing about the TD04 turbine for Subarus is that it is perfectly capable of pushing the larger compressor without altering the boost curve. Many of the bigger/performance upgrade units with a large compressor unit have a large turbine that requires a lot of exhaust energy to get it going thus the spool up rises to as much as 3.5/4k on something like a VF22.

I've been running a 19T in my 2L S turbo for about four years and at many of the meetups with the Imprezas, I am well able to keep up with all of them except the highly tuned cars but, when they are in second, I'm in third, and so on. The larger and later XT models have the AVCS heads which the S turbo did not have and after experimenting with various IHI units, the MHI one was the only practical upgrade for my model. The XT on can use many of the VF series, the TD05 and some of the modded Garrets, especially on the bigger motor.

Perhaps it's a case of what you need from your Foz? I personally don't like the higher spool up/crazy lunge forward so the the TD04-19T is perfect for me. It's relaxed enough for DD or long distance but, and largely down to the way I have it tuned (11 blade billet compressor wheel, 3 port BCS, decat and remap), once passed 2.5k in any gear, a mere prod of the throttle produces a good surge which is nice for safe over taking, joining fast traffic or when that putz you were overtaking suddenly decides he's not going to let you. The turbo on mine will hold the 1.2BAR I'm mapped to right up the red line whereas the 13T was all done before 5.5K (with tuning mods).

So, perhaps the apparent hating you felt is not as widespread as thought but there are always many used TD04-13Ts available as WRX owners often treat them with disdain. Having said that, my idea for the 19T actually came from NASOIC where I read of a good many 2.5WRX owners who had upgraded to the larger compressor model rather than the more common TD05/06/VF series turbos conversion.

Carry on with your blower and if you want a bit more go, a 19T upgrade, perhaps a 3 port BCS and remap? It'll still be the same docile beast around town but will make you grin when you ask it to, but not until then.

 

Nothing wrong with the TD04, as long as you understand and accept its characteristics.

When I ripped mine out for a VF39, the later/higher spool-up was definitely noticeable, and the car was actually a little slower off the line until you got the revs up high enough to where the TD04 would've puttered out.

In the city, I'd prefer the TD04. Now, if I'm on country roads with long straightaways and high visibility, I'll take the VF39 every time. Both can be a lot of fun in the right application.

 

another thought

most of the time , with a larger than td04 turbo, highway gas mileage goes up as it's not on the cusp of boost all the time

if you are diligent with the throttle of course

 

I'm I weird for thinking the td04 is a great turbo for getting around?

You didn't indicate the type of transmission in your vehicle... but it matters. I've got an automatic so my TD04 is just about ideal. If this sounds odd, then consider:

My son-in-law has an STi with a 6-speed and his engine is frequently above 3000 rpm - and sometimes up to 4- or 5000 rpm. This car is a lot of fun to drive and will blow most Audis and Beemers off the road. He also blew a piston at ~85k ;-{

My Forrester spent 45 minutes in bumper-to-bumper traffic this morning, so a 6-speed is not in my plans for a DD vehicle. My automatic rarely lets the engine go above 3000 rpm unless I'm barreling along the Interstate - and even then the engine rarely winds up. Even with traffic moving, my engine loafs along in the 2000+ rpm range. A different pump wouldn't do me much good, and might detract. The shift points in the 4EAT are nicely matched to the TD04 and in 2006 (my year) Subaru even put in a taller final drive. Bumper-to-bumper, here I come.

That said, there's a shop in England that has explored the TCU of the 4EAT transmission. Many (most?) of these transmissions have several switch selectable 'modes' of operation (different patterns of shift points). The modes are pre-programmed in there . . . but Subaru just doesn't use them. The TCU has a bunch of unused pins on the edge connector, and most of these pins do something, including the selection of alternate modes. Also, for some model TCUs, you can completely re-program them, much like re-flashing the ECU - and Alcyone has some sample maps!

So, if you've got a 4EAT or other automatic, don't leap into a different compressor before you look into your auto transmission.

 

My TD04 maxed out (literally) on methanol was faster in the 1000' (all i have locally) then new STI. It was an incredibly fun turbo! On my Fiancees 2.0 '02 WRX the TD04 on pump gas alone is sooooo fun. I'd seriously consider doing a 2.0 swap into the Foz if I wasn't obsessed with going crazy fast.

 

I'm changing the td04 due to the fact that power falls off around 4500 rpm. With a VF48, I should keep building power longer.

 

Thanks for the reply's

My car is a 08 5 speed. It is still on the stock turbo w 108k miles, so it may or may not be on borrowed time.

Granted my car has turboback exhaust and is tuned by torqued performace.
I'm not racing other cars, so this turbo feels up to the job of keeping up with everyone else and passing people need be.

I see alot of people talk about a VF and STI intercooler upgrade often, and I was wondering why.

I was just curious

 

My car is a 08 5 speed. It is still on the stock turbo w 108k miles, so it may or may not be on borrowed time.

I don't have a crystal ball, but I can tell you I sold my original '05 TD04 with about 140k miles on it in practically perfect condition, meaning nearly flawless vanes (no chips, bends, etc.), no problem building boost, minimal shaft play (you had to really push it sideways for it to move even a little, and it sprang back to center), and no housing cracks (more common on VF39's). A guy here on the forum bought it from me and stuck it in his Subie.

IMO, the single best thing you can do for that turbo, if you haven't already, is ensure that banjo bolt screen is removed.

Here's an unfortunate example of what can happen when you don't:
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbull...rg/vbulletin/f87/aftermarket-mitsubishi-td04-replacements-they-any-good-636266/

 

VF turbos still spool crazy fast, especially with a better downpipe. I never considered mine to be laggy, even in the slightest.

 

^^This, especially if it's tuned for lots of grunt down low. I've never experienced lag with my VF39, unless it was from the 4EAT (and that's easily prevented by downshifting manually before a quick maneuver).

 

About the banjo filters, 06-08 has no ACVS filter and no oil feedline filter? Or is this chart specific to just the oil feed line one?

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

 

06-08 definitely have them. I know from experience. Hateful things.....

 

Both filters?

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(*on ej20 not ej25)

moving from a vf30 to td04 yes i miss the g-force at the butt feel...

and highways cruising seems better with vf30 than td04...

but what i like with td04 is on b-road/street driving, i dont need to shift into lower gear just to overtake a granny driving in front....just prod the throttle and off we go...with vf30 at granny pace (40mph/80kmh and below) its almost irritating when u meet slower driver in front...lost the momentum, and u need to find lower gear to get going again...but not with td04....

and my future upgrade plan is 19T billet compressor wheel..or

20g billet wheel on that tiny td04..(available by local turbo engineering shop).... lets just hope if i choose into this direction it doesnt surge....


oh i just love the spool and responsiveness by td04 small turbine...coz i street driving my foz a lot...and not really a fan of highspeed highway cruising...(usually 65-70mph on highways only)

 

I'm so confused hearing people call a VF laggy..... Couldn't disagree more.

 

The OPs question was why there seemed to be negativity surrounding the TD04. I think this discussion shows there isn't any really and those that like the Mitsubishi unit are often in traffic or just don't like/need to drive hard through the rev range. In the 2.5 motor it really shouldn't be laggy and neither will the VF series although they come into boost later up the range. In the larger engine, being off boost is probably ok but on the 2L version, not so acceptable. As mentioned, the TD04 is ideal for the 4EAT as well although as also noted, affordable and available TCU remapping is just around the corner. Dave 5358 mentioned his satisfaction with the MHI turbo while his son in law has an STI. While generational differences seem obvious there are surely 50+ year olds whose inner lunatic is satisfied with a high spooling turbo and younger chaps who like things a little more laid back so really, it's what ever you want from the engine.

Another benefit to the MHI turbo si that in the event of oil pressure failure these turbos can be rebuilt by the owner, lots of service kits available. the VF series are ball or roller bearing and for the cost of a specialist rebuild, it's likely write off time if your lube fails and it can be just enough to trash the turbo bearings but not affect the main engine parts.

pomen_GTR. Going from the 6+6 cast compressor wheel to the 11 blade billet part was a good upgrade. The turbo now surges forward whereas, and due to the outboard 3 port BCS I use, the cast wheel was more like an on/off switch. Actually, mine is making useable boost from around 2k (what I can feel as opposed to/in conjunction with what the boost gauge says) in 3rd to 5th

 

VF-39, 43 and 48 are journal bearing. I paid to have my 48 rebuilt, but only because I was also having it ported and thermal coated to use in my Fiancees WRX. Can do it at home.

 

Getting the most out of a turbo car take a little technique, which is part of the fun. Turbos respond best with some load on them, so if you can maintain continual pressure on the gas, the response is much better than when you are on the gas/ off the gas all the time. Smoothness pays dividends with a turbo. Even though my car pulls hardest above 4,000 rpm, if I can maintain a bit of load on the car it pulls with authority down around 3,000.