wonder why the us xt does not have this issue. bust be a different tune

 

I've had these issues. The fix is coming here soon apparently.

 

Might be that we run different fuels here, don't know. I use 98RON exclusively, but I think you guys will have an equivalent to that anyway. I suspect we do put out a little more power than USDM spec, but could be wrong.

 

Hurry up, USA.

 

91 Octane = 95 RON.

93 Octane = 98 RON.

We have access to both of those grades, depending on our elevation above sea level.

 

That's right, you guys use the AKI rating, where AKI = RON x 0.95. When you say "93 Octane =", it's a relative term - what you're actually saying is "93 AKI". We also say "98 Octane" when we talk about 98 RON here.

 

Can you let me know how it goes? I have had similar issues too!

 

hmm...i know USA has not said anything yet...but my dealer said SOA has requested my car stay in the shop for another week until they release "a new ECU software update". I wonder if this is what they were talking about....

 

Hi in what cases does the plugs need to be replaced?

 

All the letter states is:

If the spark plugs are diagnosed as requiring replacement, they will also be replaced free of charge.

It's pretty easy to tell if plugs are shot due to pre detonation.

 

Are they removing the plugs for inspection then? In that case, I'd demand new plugs, as reinstalling a used one makes little sense - even if I had to supply them myself. I suppose I'm just a little crazy though.

Anyhow, I feel pretty strongly that a recall is coming for the US as well - perhaps not a full blown recall, maybe more of a courtesy inspection type of deal. Time will tell.

 

That does make sense. Wish I had access to 93 octane, I think all of CA is just 91 at best =( Been reading about E-85 tuning, but that's not readily available here.

 

OK - that's done. I dropped the car off at 8:00am and it was finished by 9:15, and came back washed, even though it wasn't a pay-for service. I still like my local Subaru dealer.

They told me that plugs aren't pulled unless they see codes indicating that they need to be. Mine didn't indicate that they had to come out. The ECU update was uploaded remotely, from head office I believe, and diagnostics were performed - got to love the modern age, eh. They then test drove the car before handing it back.

I think that it does feel a little different. It's smoother off the line under full boot and I haven't been able to replicate the old problem where there was a major stutter, followed by loss of power, and a street full of smoke. The problem was easily repeated, so I really think it's fixed at this early point. I haven't driven it far enough to really prove it, but indications are good. Turbo power is still there, as strong as ever, and very progressive from the bottom end up.

If I come across anything untoward, I'll advise. All up - looks the goods.

 

I got the recall here today too.(Sweden) Although I already have this update since it first was introduced back in may. Still going like it should and no indications of missfire. Running it on 98 RON exclusively and I'm getting really good smiles/gallon.:icon_cool:

 

Nice to hear it Spiddelito.:smile: Mine is performing brilliantly after the ECU software update & new plugs back in May this year, & 8 Breeze Liner clamps fitted just prior to this. A lot more torque down low, very smooth & very responsive (the accelerator is almost too touchy at light throttle around town). I still can’t believe it is the same vehicle to the one with the stock leaky clamps & original software. I haven’t tested economy though; I expect it may have dropped because I find myself using the extra bottom end torque. I’m still running 95RON fuel which I’m very happy with.

Both the original issues I had haven’t returned; (1) surging & loss of power when moderately accelerating out of a corner after a long open road run using cruise control, & (2) very loud severe pinging at WOT around 4500rpm. Although immediately after the ECU update/new plugs I had one instance of surging & loss of power but I found one of the clamps hadn’t been retightened tight enough (it was also relearning after the battery removal for the new plugs).

 

Here are some plugs from my old G20 that encountered a bit (a lot) of detonation.

That little tuning mistake required new pistons as well.

 

If a sparkplug is shot, you will notice. Everything from loosing ignition on one cylinder to not running at all. I would have the dealer replace plugs when updating if having experienced any type of uncontrolled detonation. Even of it runs ok now. My last sparkplug failure (had 2) was a fracture in the ceramic coating on the middle"pin". The first one kinda looked like neallv's picture but not as severe. And no piston damage luckily.(camera inspected).

 

If you just lose the tip of the ground electrode then the car will run like crap but no long term damage should result (assuming you don't break a piston). If the ceramic insulator breaks apart and rattles around the cylinder for awhile (like the plug on the right), then it could be very expensive.

These plugs were in an SR20DE engine, so I managed to limp it home under its own power, even though it was very wounded.

An EJ or FA engine would have likely puked its guts all over the ground if subjected to the same abuse.

 

If the ceramic insulator breaks apart and rattles around the cylinder for awhile (like the plug on the right), then it could be very expensive.

I guess I was really lucky with this. The ceramic had a crack and could move freely, but did not come of the pin. Running on four-three and then back on four cylinders again. On and off.
But since it was still under warranty and with free roadside assistance I just pulled over and made the call.

 

Forester xt 2014 ecm reflash due to recall

Hi all I had my forester xt reflashed today. I also run shell premium 98 octane solely and the problems I have experienced we're
~ hard starting
~severe pinging and black smoke on hard acceleration in hi rpm range, coupled with flat spotting
~rough idle
~engine warning light

So took it to get done today

Results: immediately noticed much smoother quieter idle with slight drop in rpm on idle
Cons: softer responsive from the start. Turbo spooling is heard much after than it was prior to reprogramming. So I dumped it into sport with air con off and same thing from a stop start the turbo doesn't spool as fast as it did before and seems to come in slightly later now, although gear changes on hard acceleration seem a little quicker whilst boost is maintained.

I read I should be getting a better response down low at the sacrifice of top end speed but not in my case.
Anyone got this issue.

 

Hi all I had my forester xt reflashed today. I also run shell premium 98 octane solely and the problems I have experienced we're
~ hard starting
~severe pinging and black smoke on hard acceleration in hi rpm range, coupled with flat spotting
~rough idle
~engine warning light

So took it to get done today

Results: immediately noticed much smoother quieter idle with slight drop in rpm on idle
Cons: softer responsive from the start. Turbo spooling is heard much after than it was prior to reprogramming. So I dumped it into sport with air con off and same thing from a stop start the turbo doesn't spool as fast as it did before and seems to come in slightly later now, although gear changes on hard acceleration seem a little quicker whilst boost is maintained.

I read I should be getting a better response down low at the sacrifice of top end speed but not in my case.
Anyone got this issue.

mate got mine done this week and it is like a new car. heaps of power
from idle to 200k/ph

mark

 

If these experiences are literally directly after the reflash, then you've got to give the ECM time to relearn max timing advance. I don't know much about these new ECM's, but my previous '08 STI would take a few WOT runs, sometimes more, before the Dynamic Advance Multiplier would rise back up to 1.0, meaning full advance.

 

Ok I can confirm today I tested the XT further and yes it's definitely slower after. Here's what I noticed

Idle rpm in I mode is at 500 with -0.5 kpa boost gauge

Normal(slow ) acceleration boost stays at 0.0 kpa untill anywhere from 2000-2500 rpm in first gear then climbs up and then I can hear my old usual turbo spooling. Saying this the turbo is now not kicking in untill later. I'm not happy as my performance has changed.

If I accelerate hard same situation although obviously 2000rpm comes much faster. Weird.

Anyone else got this issue?
I will be calling subaru australia tomorrow and emailing fhi for answers. I'm tempted to go back to the old firmware


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... I'm not happy as my performance has changed.
...
Anyone else got this issue?
I will be calling subaru australia tomorrow and emailing fhi for answers. I'm tempted to go back to the old firmware

Hi CROUPT. I agree with Jayc that the new firmware is far superior to the old. Something doesn’t sound right with your XT though, but as previously mentioned it does take about 3/4 of a tank of fuel for the ECU to relearn, so it may improve. From memory, the ECU reset procedure should have taken care of the throttle position.

However, the following may help.

On 5th August OzFoz.com forum member RSTI also posted that after the ECU update & 1st service, the XT was lacking performance. The post on OzFoz.com is here. Logon or registration is required to access this, so if this isn’t possible part of RSTI’s post read; “After receiving the car back it instantly felt 'flat', like the boost was cut back by half! Acceleration is sluggish and a lot more throttle is required, to obtain less than half the previous acceleration!” & “It's disappointing that a car that was running perfectly, now feels like a NA”.

My reply to this was to ask if they changed the spark plug gap. The correct gap for the XT should be 0.5 – 0.55mm.
The reason I asked about the plug gap was because mine were set too wide by mistake by the Technician at the time of the ECU update, & the first time I used full throttle I got massive pinging at 4500rpm. The second time I used full throttle the engine completely cut-out at 4500rpm then continued a couple of seconds later. The engine also lacked performance & would miss when climbing the slightest hill. Vacuum & idle were also inconsistent to how they should be when first started from cold.

So far RSTI hasn’t come back to report what was causing the problem.

If the spark plugs were removed for inspection or replacement, I would also check to see if they tightened the clamp closest to the air filter case on the air inlet hose leading to the turbo. The air filter case needs to be removed to access the spark plugs from the top of the engine bay. The tightness of all 8 clamps between the air filter case & the throttlebody on this model XT’s engine are very important. The MAF sensor is in a vulnerable spot just inside the air filter case so be careful not to damage it if removing the air filter element or air outlet hose from the case.

 

Croupt,
the new firmware is far superior to the old, I personally wouldn't go back. I haven't heard of any performance issues related with the new update, most of the feedback has been positive. I suggest having a chat with your service centre first.

How are you testing the performance, in I, S or S#, manual or auto?

 

After a few days with it, I really like the update. Punching it off the line is not really different that it used to be, but I haven't had a recurrence of the old problem - a street full of black smoke and a crick in my neck. I'm going to wait until I've done well over 1,000km in all sorts of driving conditions before I make any objective judgement.

 

Hi. No I was watching them all the time and they didn't even pop the bonnet. They said unless the codes indicated they do not change the spark plugs. I had a error code they said they never seen before which related to the lateral movement. They told me to monitor it and get back to them.
As for the post you copied from the prior person I am having the exact same issue. Lack of power and. Noticeably no turbo spooling pull before 2000-2500 rpm which was not the case prior.

Made an appointment and going back on the weekend so the tech can come and drive it with me to observe any possible problem


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Hmm ... ok scratch what I said about the plug gaps & air filter case clamp. Just thinking out aloud - I wonder if it’s possible to install the ECU update without clearing the ECU memory. With my XT because the plugs were checked then later replaced, the battery had to be removed which resets the ECU. Resetting the ECU can of course be done by their select monitor (laptop).

You mention idle in I mode is at 500 with -0.5 kpa. This is what mine does: After the ECU update, when the engine is first started cold I noticed it idles at a slightly higher rpm than prior to the update. Prior to the update it used to initially idle at ~1500rpm but now it idles initially at 1700 -1800rpm. At first it idles fairly rough at 0 kPa but after approx 40 seconds the MFD display shows the vacuum dropping to & remaining at -0.6 kPa & it then idles smoothly. This is with the A/C on for both sides, handbrake on, gear selector in Park, foot on the brake & I auto mode selected. After the engine warms up it idles at 750rpm the same as prior to the update with vacuum at -0.7 kPa with gear selector in Park, foot on the brake & the A/C on.

You also mention that you had severe pinging and black smoke on hard acceleration in hi rpm range, coupled with flat spotting, & yet they didn’t check the plugs for damage. I can understand not checking the plugs if severe loud pinging hadn’t occurred, but if it had how do they know there isn’t any minor porcelain damage to the plugs? I was told this had been found on some XTs & one of my earlier vehicles (not a Subaru) had chipped porcelain at the centre electrode on one plug & the vehicle still ran fine.
My XT suffered very loud severe pinging at WOT at 4500rpm & the plugs were checked then later replaced. The plugs looked fine but the plug gaps were found at 0.4mm instead of 0.5 – 0.55mm. One theory put forward was that the immense shock waves caused by the very severe pinging detonation could have caused this – but I don’t think anyone really knows for certain.

If it was my XT I would do an ECU reset then see what happens after about 3/4 tank of fuel, but I can understand if you don’t want to change anything until the Technician test drives it (it would be good for their experience anyway). You shouldn’t have to go through this hassle.

Please keep us informed what the outcome is.

 

- I wonder if it’s possible to install the ECU update without clearing the ECU memory.

Yes it is. I had my update loaded into the car in a couple of minutes since my plugs were changed a week before the update magically appeared. CVT behaved like it did prior to the update and there wasn't that big of a difference in performance. But after I pulled the battery and so on, it just changed for the better. Takes a while before everything adapts. Maybe 200km or so.

 

Thanks I shall. And no during a choke start mine idles at about 1300 rpm and whilst warm it's on 500 rpm in gear and park

I don't know history reset the ecu although after the update was applied my km's we're reset to zero (total mileage stayed)


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You don't have a choke... :icon_wink:

But I understand what you mean in principle. The term for a mechanic would be "cold idle" even for our good friends across the big pond.

 

That’s valuable information Spiddelito - thanks.

It sounds like an ECU reset may not have been done to CROUPT’s XT but doesn’t explain why it performs worse than before the ECU update. Likewise for RSTI.
Although I think if the reset procedure is done correctly it recalibrates the throttle.

 

Hi Danoz. So going by what you have experienced, do you think what CROUPT & RSTI are experiencing could be fixed by a correct ECU reset?
I didn’t experience this behaviour because I had a reset done at the time of the update (battery removal to check/correct/replace plugs).

 

Gday Sub and Croupt,

Yeh I reckon an ECU reset would help. I would have thought that after an update all of the learned values would have been reset but that dosent seem to occur in every instance. Just be aware Croupt, that after the reset, the car will seem sluggish and not very responsive for a while. This is normal. The ECU reverts to safe default values and learns it optimal values through driving. I agree with gasthermewools comment, after a few KMs and the car has warmed up to operating temp do a 1 or 2 WOT runs (safely) and it will help the learn.

 

Hmmm perhaps I should pull my battery too. Just wondering though will I need to reprogram anything after I reconnect it.
5 mins disconnected should be long enough. Well thinking about the drive time after u only would have done 100 km till now


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Hmmm perhaps I should pull my battery too. Just wondering though will I need to reprogram anything after I reconnect it.
5 mins disconnected should be long enough. ...

See item 3 in Danoz’s topic here.

Being an XT Premium, where Danoz said at the 2nd star point to “Turn the ignition key ...”, we obviously press the starter button twice with the foot off the brake to get to the ON position.

You will need to re-enable alerts for red light cameras, speed cameras, school zones, railway crossings, etc in your Harman Kardon SatNav if you have them enabled. For example on mine for ‘Red Light Camera’ I have ‘Map > Menu > More > Settings > Sounds & Warnings > Alert Point Settings > Alert Point Warnings (ticked) & Alert Types > Red Light Camera > Audio Visual - when approaching'. The rest are similar.

There are some other items in the SatNav that also reset to default but I can’t remember them all. Looking at my list (which doesn't show all the defaults) I notice that Map voice recognition mode changed from expert to normal. Map route planning method changed from easy to fast. A lot of my custom Map Settings also changed back to the defaults (eg. night time custom mode).

You also need to re-initialise the driver's side window auto down function. To do this:

1. Close the driver’s door.
2. Turn the ignition to the ON position.
3. Open the driver's side window halfway by pushing down the power window switch.
4. Pull up the power window switch & close the window completely - continue pulling up the switch for approximately 1 second after the window has closed completely.
5. Push down the power window switch until it clicks to open the window completely.

Random play for USB music playback will need to be re-enabled if previously set.

I may have had to re-enter the radio stations back into memory – I’m not sure about this, I could be getting mixed up with the Kenwood SatNav in my previous model XT.

I don’t think any of my EyeSight custom settings changed.

The multi function display (MFD) settings such as date & time etc need to be reset, but I don't think my custom screen changed.