The Danoz fix for the FA20DIT turbo clamps - Subaru Forester Owners Forum
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post #1 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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The Danoz fix for the FA20DIT turbo clamps

"The Danoz fix"

If these instructions have been of benefit to you please feel free to make a PAYPAL donation: danozmax@tpg.com.au
Please leave your name so I can personally thank you.

This is a summary of the previous thread including instructions for the clamp fix for the FA20DIT powered MY14+ Forester XT (SJ series). The instructions may also apply to the MY15 WRX but this is yet to be confirmed. Subaru Australia will not replace these clamps for you so you must do this yourself or get a qualified mechanic to follow these instructions. I am not aware if this will void your warranty so you should check that before proceeding. I refuse to be held responsible for any damage done to your car, if you dont feel confident, simple dont do it. What I am sure of is that should you choose to drive the car around in its current state with all of the severe pinging and and overboosting issues, you WILL significantly shorten the life of the motor through detonation damage or the engine running too lean as a result of unmetered air entering the induction system.

The engine suffers from more than one fault that needs to be rectified. Most notably, the extremely poor quality of clamps used on the boost piping. These clamps are so sub-standard that if you went to Bunnings or Masters and bought their worst clamp intended for household plumbing, it would still be better than the ones used on our engines, and that is not an exaggeration. From the factory these clamps are loose and their quality prevents a proper air tight seal. The factory clamps have also been known to fail completely after one tightening attempt. The new clamps also have a "liner" which provides a smooth even clamping surface which prevents damage to the material is gripping onto.

Use ONLY these clamps! They are called BREEZE LINER CLAMPS.

1 x Stock code: 9420
2 x Stock code: 9448H
2 x Stock code: 9444H

Here in Australia we can only get them in boxes of 10, so Im not sure what is available to you US customers.

NORMA Group - Breeze Products



All of these instructions need to be fully applied ALL at once for the fix to work. There is no point filling up on 91 Octane and putting two clamps on your car and saying it doest work. It will NOT work under those circumstances guaranteed. There are boost leaks at every induction pipe clamping surface on the engine, so sealing two will only make the others worse and your net result will be zero performance improvement. The clamps have been selected specifically for their ability to remain in their tightened state without the risk of them undoing, or in worst case, failing completely. Another brand or style of clamps will not necessarily hold so do not even try to substitute. I have tested the above very extensively and put a lot of time and research into selecting something appropriate for our application. They are also the same size and band width as the factory clamps so they will definitely fit. So here goes...

Preparation: Your car should be low on fuel and then refilled with 91 Octane fuel of any brand. NOT 93. This step may be redundant with the latest software update from Subaru (version 082), but this is yet to be confirmed.

1) Remove negative battery terminal and proceed. These 5 clamps need to be replaced with the specified clamps and tightened to a firm fit, and once the engine has warmed to operation temperature re-tightened. The clamps should not be overtightened or it will cause the rubber boots or insulators to "wrinkle" and cause leaks.
* Turbo intake
* Intercooler inlet
* Intercooler outlet
* Throttle body
* Bypass valve

Caution- Work carefully around the intercooler, it is quite fragile and the heat dissipating fins are quite easily damaged. This will rob you of power if the damage is excessive.

Hint - You will need to remove the intercooler completely when replacing the clamps on the small hose that connects to the throttle body. It may be stuck fast from the rubbers aging so dont go crazy with the wiggling or you will most certainly damage it. When the intercooler is off, to prevent any foreign objects entering the induction system, I suggest you stretch some new powderless latex gloves over the inlet and outlet. When re-installing the intercooler use a very small smear of vaseline or light paraffin oil as lubricant on the inside of the rubber boots or "insulators" to help guide the piping onto it. It should slide on very easily then. Also make sure that the rectangle "hump" on the bottom of the small pipe is pointing directly down when reinstalling the pipe. You can partially see the hump in the picture below labeled "Tridon clamp damage" the lubricant applied to the pipe will also alow you to rotate the pipe when its in position.

2) Tighten all three clamps after the airflow meter and before the turbo. There are three, do not skip any. These clamps are of a different manufacturer that the other five and they will hold if tightened. These clamps should be firm-tight. Also before tightening ensure that the induction piping is located correctly. i.e the rubber boots have a small keyway in them and they must be pushed up into this keyway and then the clamps tightened. ALL THREE!

3) Reset ECU using the following procedure.
*Replace negative battery terminal.
* Turn the ignition key so the indicator lights show and the dial sweep occurs. DO NOT START THE CAR. leave the key in this position.
* Wait at least 10 seconds, preferably 20 seconds for the ECU to complete its throttle learning procedure. There will be a number of clicks and whirls from the engine, this is normal.
* After 20 seconds start the car with all accessories off and allow engine to idle for one minute.
* ECU reset is complete. When driving, the car will feel funny and a little bit sluggish after the reset, this is normal, as the ECU is learning its new fuel trims wastegate settings and transmission behaviors. After half a tank of fuel, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at your "new" car. After the reset you will also need to perform the drivers power window calibration and set your clocks/date again. This is covered in your Subaru owners manual.

4) Double check your work and replace engine covers/bottom bash plate and clips, check clamp tightness, check tightness again when engine is at operating temperature.

Left: Replacement clamp Right: Subaru clamp
Note shape and material difference.

Member videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGYZIM8amq8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqwYjY6p7UE

NB: See attachments for positions of clamps that need to be changed or tightened

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Last edited by danozmax; 04-17-2016 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Add vid links
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post #2 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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TESTING YOUR WORK.

Warm your car up to operating temperature (oil temp above 80 Deg C) and drive normally, with a few squirts of mid throttle and full throttle. OBEY THE ROAD RULES AND SPEED LIMITS!

Set your multi function display to show oil temp and boost. Find a long uphill grade, the steeper and longer the better and shift the car into manual mode so that you will be using paddle shift. Accelerate slowly and shift into third while the engine sits at about 2k to 3k RPM and floor it while at the same time monitoring your boost pressure. It will rise rapidly and may overshoot the desired 16psi consistent pressure. This is normal while the car adjusts to its new airflow characteristics and establishes a suitable wastegate setting. Once things have settled down the boost should sit at a very steady 14psi to 17psi. If it fluctuating (more than 3 psi), you still have a leak and need to check the positioning and tightness of the newly installed clamps. Also important is to keep an eye on your RPM and shift up when necessary. All we are trying to see is if the turbo will maintain its max boost. 16psi is the magic figure, 13psi or less means you have a leak, 20psi also means you have a leak. Fluctuating boost = leak.

TROUBLESHOOTING

If your car rattles, hesitates or suffers inconsistent acceleration the clamps are still not installed correctly. We can narrow down the areas to inspect as follows.

1) Pinging (rattle) accompanied WITH smoke from exhaust, sudden loss of power with the onset of boost. Check the clamps and piping after the turbo. (The ones you just installed)

2) Pinging or rattle with no smoke and a sudden loss of power with the onset of boost WITHOUT smoke from the exhaust. Check all piping and clamps BEFORE the turbo and after the airflow meter. (the ones you just tightened but didn't replace)

If a pinging or rattling episode has occurred you need to check those specified areas AND perform an ECU reset procedure.

As previously mentioned, it takes up to half a tank of fuel for the car to be performing as it should so be patient. Don't be gentle, give it some stick, and most importantly ENJOY! Once you have it right you will know, because the car will pull strongly and never hesitate, ping or rattle. (not even a little bit)

From now on until I get more info on the software update, ONLY USE 91 Octane fuel and you will not have any problems.

Update: July 2014 FHI has issued a recall of all FA20DIT Subarus for a software update. The update will address the detonation and hesitation issues but does not address the boost leak problem. If a leak is present it will reduce performance accordingly to prevent engine damage from sudden overboost. With the new clamps installed AND software updated the car will run on the highest octane fuel available without problems and solve any uneven acceleration or low power problems. After the recall your ECU will be upgraded from version 081 to 082. Other updates address different issues such as hard starting etc.


Last edited by danozmax; 04-17-2016 at 03:57 PM.
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post #3 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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post #4 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 12:21 AM
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I am going to move this to the FA20DIT sub-forum and sticky it there.

I will also add "turbo clamps" to the title for added clarification.

Yes, our MFD shows boost pressure. In the US it is in PSI.

Thank you for this write up... I know this fix has proven to be helpful for many members.

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post #5 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJosh View Post
I am going to move this to the FA20DIT sub-forum and sticky it there.

I will also add "turbo clamps" to the title for added clarification.

Yes, our MFD shows boost pressure. In the US it is in PSI.

Thank you for this write up... I know this fix has proven to be helpful for many members.
Thank you sir for honoring me with a sticky. :)
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post #6 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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my hot tip for the throttle body clamp is, take the intercooler off and pop the little hose off between the intercooler and throttlebody.and put the clamps on and locate them with the hose off the car. Its really easy this way.

Because I did the job outside i thought while the intercooler is off the car there is a chance that something may contaminate the internals so I got 2 x latex gloves and streched one over the openings. Paranoid I know, but it 100% esures no grit, sand or bugs get in there.

And last but not least, when you are popping the small pipe back on it sticks to the surfaces its clamping to because its rubber and makes it tough to put everything back together and locate all of the pipes in their keyways. So the Subaru workshop manual says to use a very light coat of "light parrafin oil" didnt have any of that so I looked it up. Vaseline is a thicker version of light parrafin oil. So I used that. Here is a pic with the pipe off the car and new clamp in place ready to fit. Note the locating tab and arrow showing you where to place the clamp. Thanks Subaru! Its almost like you knew us SJ XT owners were going to have to replace our own clamps.
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post #7 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
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When installing the new clamps you can orientate the screw to a new position for easier access in the future if you need to check tightness. The BPV clamp is definitely the trickiest, when the car is on the ground it is almost impossible to get both hands up into the space where you need to work. Ramps, a pit, or a lift would make the job a hellava lot easier, but it can be done without. removal is not too bad. just loosen the screw all the way until the clamp pops open and pull it off. Installation is the reverse. with the clamp off the car undo it all the way till it opens up, fit it with the screw facing to the ground so that future tightening will be easier. Now the tricky part... I reached around and held the top part of the clamp in position resting on the BPV, then with a very long extension and 8mm socket that you can position without reaching into the cavity, i carefully pressed upwards so as to position the worm screw so it almost bites and slowly turn the extension attempting to start the thread. I used the socket because it doesnt slip off the nut as easily as a screwdriver so its easier to position the clamp. Once it bites, only 1 or two teeth is needed. Then do it up while holding it in position with a finger. Light is definitely needed. It IS tricky but doable.

If you still have trouble getting it to bite, take the clamp off and do it up, off the car, to full tightness (small circle), then undo. It will make the clamp a tight circle again and you wont have as much trouble.

I hope all that makes sense. Sorry cant provide pictures of this bit because of limited space. Here is a pic with the new clamp in place ready to tighten. Finger on top to hold, push with long extention + 8mm socket to position and screw, it should bite... eventually.
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post #8 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 02:16 AM
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Has anyone compared the clamps on the 2015's to see if they made any changes?
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post #9 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 03:04 AM
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Thanks again for this information Danoz, you definitely put some time and thought into it.

I just looked up the clamps on Amazon, about $46 US give or take. They do come in packs of 10 there as well, if I read it correctly (still on first cup of coffee).

As I was playing with the turbo response yesterday listening to the rattle and seeing the smoke, I figure I'll give this a shot before I take it to the dealership.

I did notice that the clamps on Amazon have a suffix of "H" ie. 9444H. Does it matter? The mfr is Breeze.

They're all 1/2" wide and SAE size 20, 44, and 48.

I hope to get this done sometime in May, my schedule until then is booked.

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post #10 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 04:32 AM Thread Starter
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Mate, this has consumed my life for the past few months. Drove my Mrs crazy with my constant fiddling. I tried and failed a few things but this, done correctly, will fix your car. Permanently. Subaru will not help you! It was through sheer frustration and anger I decided to take my brand new car apart to get to the bottom of the problem. Subaru will not use Breeze clamps, rather they will tighten your old Tridon brand clamps and send you on your way. They will loosen after the first decent boost. If they fail completely, they will replace it with the same. As for the software update released here in Aus. I find it impossible to believe that flashing an ECU will magically fix a physical fault. The flash will mask the harsh symptoms so that the problem goes away for Subaru. Its the most economical solution. It is a band aid, not a fix.

As for the clamps you found Im not sure what the H means. I know they do come in different materials but the ones I have indicated are full stainless. They will never corrode, loosen or fail. The maximum inside diameters are the same as standard 44mm 83mm and 89mm. And the band width is crucial for fitment. 12mm or 1/2". Also make sure they are LINER CLAMPS, the slotted ones tend to bite into the soft rubber material and cause significant damage to the rubber seal, possibly making the problem worse down the track. Let me know how you go matey.

Oh, and the other day I dropped in a dealer and checked on the latest model what clamps they were using. Still Tridon. I do suspect the FA20DIT WRX has the same. Dumb asses!


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post #11 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 06:09 AM
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Danozmax- I cannot thank you enough for your tenacious pursuit of this problem. Subaru owes you consulting pay! Your selfless interest in sharing what you have found has helped so many people already.

FYI everyone - I ordered the clamps through Amazon a couple weeks ago. EDIT: my extra clamps have all been sold now, thanks everyone! I'm sure someone else will be up to doing a group-buy for the U.S. folks in need.

They are the exact 9420, 9448, 9444 models mentioned by Danoz. The boxes are marked with those numbers. I simply entered those part #s in the amazon search and it came up with the correct part. The product I received does not have an "H" in the part # like Ifdal was concerned about. On the clamps themselves are the markings '20', '48', and '44', as well as the dimensions in inches and mm.

Last edited by County; 04-14-2014 at 06:43 PM.
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post #12 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by County View Post
Danozmax- I cannot thank you enough for your tenacious pursuit of this problem. Subaru owes you consulting pay! Your selfless interest in sharing what you have found has helped so many people already.

FYI everyone - I ordered the clamps through Amazon a couple weeks ago. I still have three extra sets I'm happy to ship to other US folks at my cost: $12 shipped, with tracking. PM me if interested. First paypal, first served! I've already setup member 'Marmonduke' with the clamps.

They are the exact 9420, 9448, 9444 models mentioned by Danoz. The boxes are marked with those numbers. I simply entered those part #s in the amazon search and it came up with the correct part. The product I received does not have an "H" in the part # like Ifdal was concerned about. On the clamps themselves are the markings '20', '48', and '44', as well as the dimensions in inches and mm.

Do not hessitate to get your clamps from County. He sent mine out quickly and got the exact clamps above. Not to mention he sent them with no markup at his cost! He is a good guy!
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Planning on purchasing a 10-pack of each clamp via Amazon so that we SJ XT owners in the Philippines can replace ours as well.

Just wanted to confirm if I am purchasing the correct items:

The Danoz fix for the FA20DIT turbo clamps-imageuploadedbyautoguide1397491813.737429.jpg
The Danoz fix for the FA20DIT turbo clamps-imageuploadedbyautoguide1397491829.529919.jpg

Thanks.


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post #14 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by wiretap_MD View Post
Planning on purchasing a 10-pack of each clamp via Amazon so that we SJ XT owners in the Philippines can replace ours as well.

Just wanted to confirm if I am purchasing the correct items:

Attachment 138961
Attachment 138969

Thanks.


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Yep - those are the right part #s. I recommend just double-checking the dimensions as one more verification step. The below list will help you with that.

*Part # 9420. Breeze Liner Clamp, 13/16" to 1-3/4" (21-44mm) Diameter Range, 1/2" (13mm) Bandwidth. <-Need QTY1 (1 for BPV)

*Part # 9444. Breeze Liner Clamp, 2-5/16" to 3-1/4" (59-83mm) Diameter Range, 1/2" (13mm) Band Width. <- Need QTY 2 (1 for Intercooler Outlet, 1 for Throttlebody)

*Part # 9448. Breeze Liner Clamp, 2-9/16" to 3-1/2" (65-89mm) Diameter Range, 1/2" (13mm) Band Width. <- Need QTY 2 (1 for Turbo Intake, 1 for Intercooler Inlet)
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post #15 of 518 (permalink) Old 04-14-2014, 03:28 PM
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Sadly, I am finding that my boost is all over the place and offers very little consistency.

Damn, I really did buy a lemon, ridiculous that people have to go to these lengths to ensure a properly functioning turbo in the 2014 Subaru Forester XT. Annoying as hell, and the prospect of me dismantling then reinstalling these components on my own is intimidating. Think I'm going to print this thread and hand it to my Subaru dealer (if only to say "this **** needs to stop!").
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