[Kevin]

My recent experience with an EV:

The other day I gave my jump cables to a next door neighbour whose BYD EV had a flat 12V secondary battery. The car has stopped a little distance away in the same suburb and his jump pack didn't work. He and his wife went back to see if they could get it started. By the time they got back to the car the recovery service was close so they did not use the jump cables. The BYD was flat-bedded to the local service centre. But because everything locks up under a failed battery condition, dollies had to be used to get the vehicle onto the tow truck! Even though recovery for the first year is covered an additional charge of $160 had to be made because of the extra effort involved in getting the EV onto the tow truck! (I believe BYD refunded the $160 and also gave them a loaner)

 

[Botnik]

any time any door is opened, the body computer lowers that door's window about a half inch.
The reason is that the windows are frameless, and on closing the door, air pressure would prevent the door from closing without a heavy push.
You can count on that intricate window opening/closing subsystem to give an owner grief at some time down the road.

[...]

the accelerator pedal is like a rheostat operating the twin motors.

A friend's car had that window opening/closing thing maybe 20 years ago. The pressure thing is right but does it have anything to do with the windows being frameless?

I wish I could turn off the fake shifts on my CVT.

 

[bigbird1]

A friend's car had that window opening/closing thing maybe 20 years ago. The pressure thing is right but does it have anything to do with the windows being frameless?

I wish I could turn off the fake shifts on my CVT.

I read that the Tesla window dropping thing was because of pressure and the difficulty to easily close the doors without the dropping.
That would also indicate excellent sealing of the cabin if that was true, as the acoustic and air sealing is very good.
Remember when the Dodge Neon came out with the frameless windows?
No automatic dropping of the windows on that.

Regarding the built in fake shifting on the CVT, I don't like it either.
It detracts from the inherent smoothness of the CVT IMHO.

 

[DragonSubie7]

Thin air!

MSN

While interesting, even at best it won't be a source for anything approaching the high power needed for vehicles..
I quote:
"While it's unlikely to turn the sustainable energy industry on its head any time soon, the scientists say Huc is "astonishingly stable" and could one day be used as a tiny, sustainable, bacteria-powered battery for small devices."

Eventually it could be a power source for flea sized EVs... or not..
It's a very long journey from could to practicality...

On a positive note, there are some promising developments in future battery technology that could be game changers.
The caveat of course is that could doesn't mean ready to go, and "soon" is a relative term.

A solar system provider I've worked with for the past 20 years had a take on new, high powered, inexpensive battery tech: It's "just around the corner, just like 20 years ago".. We'll see...

 

[bigbird1]

[@bigbird1,

#1 Re the Bolt I can also say "..what an engineering marvel!…"
Includng very carefully considered details, such as, unlike Tesla and many new cars both ICE and EVs, knowing what controls and gauges to NOT bury in a touchscreen.
I never in my life expected I'd buy any GM product and be impressed by their eginnerung and customer support.

The Chevy Bolt has been subject to several recalls over dangerous battery issues.
If you deem their design impressive engineering, I say you've been drinking too much GM Kool-aid.
Any EV not using a heat pump system for HVAC is way behind the times, both in complexity and efficiency.
How many years will it take GM to update the Bolt to heat pump tech instead of ICE A/C tech?`

Acceleration is effortless and exhilarating…."
Ditto for the Bolt.

Seriously? The Y does 0-60 mph in 4.5 s
The Bolt is what, 7.2 s? Reference is here : 2022 Chevrolet Bolt EV electric 0-60 MPH and Quarter-mile Times | CarIndigo.com
Maybe I shouldn't have called the Y's acceleration "effortless and exhilarating".
I suppose scary would be a better adjective.
The Bolt does NOT have scary acceleration.

In closing I would love to own a Tesla Y, but until it has different battery technology that would not lose so much efficiency at cold temps, and it wasn't owned by such a racist and arrogant control freak, that won't happen for me.

 

[FelineFreddie]

I suspect the Bolt, at least in its current design specification, was introduced primarily so (1) GM could claim early entry into the EV market, (2) GM could acquire some real-world EV experience, (3) GM could have a market entry vehicle to carry over until more sophisticated, better designed and more efficient vehicles could be introduced, (4) a number of other, possibly lesser reasons.

I have a good friend that’s had one for several years and he likes it a lot, but then again, he’s pretty easy to please. If all I wanted was an EV to provide basic local transportation at a reasonable cost, I might consider a Bolt… but it’s gotten “quite long in the tooth” without much updating over its life and it’s technology level isn’t what most EV buyers I know would seriously consider.

 

[FelineFreddie]

While interesting, even at best it won't be a source for anything approaching the high power needed for vehicles..
I quote:
"While it's unlikely to turn the sustainable energy industry on its head any time soon, the scientists say Huc is "astonishingly stable" and could one day be used as a tiny, sustainable, bacteria-powered battery for small devices."

Eventually it could be a power source for flea sized EVs... or not..
It's a very long journey from could to practicality...

On a positive note, there are some promising developments in future battery technology that could be game changers.
The caveat of course is that could doesn't mean ready to go, and "soon" is a relative term.

A solar system provider I've worked with for the past 20 years had a take on new, high powered, inexpensive battery tech: It's "just around the corner, just like 20 years ago".. We'll see...

Maybe this will be the technology that will power all those flying cars we’re all gonna be driving soon… the same flying cars I’ve been reading about since the 1950’s that were just a few years away… and still aren’t here yet.

 

[DragonSubie7]

FF
That was part of my point.
The other big "all of our problems are now going to be solved with ____" is another.

It's one thing to hope for a breakthrough and work towards enabling it, but quite another to pin the success of a wholesale effort at dramatically changing the required energy needs of an entire civilization on technologies that are not yet up to the task.

In the case of transition from fossil fuels, replacement by renewable sources without economical, sustainable, efficient and relatively environmentally benign methods of energy storage, that transition isn't going to work well in the long run.

Lithium batteries fail in every category, yet there do not seem to be any available replacements, except those that will be available "soon"... Maybe when attached to the flying car..

 

[Kevin]

While interesting

and that is the only reason I mentioned; it was meant more as tongue in cheek

 

[FelineFreddie]

FF
That was part of my point.
The other big "all of are problems are now going to be solved with ____" is another.

It's one thing to hope for a breakthrough and work towards enabling it, but quite another to pin the success of a wholesale effort at dramatically changing the required energy needs of an entire civilization on technologies that are not yet up to the task.

In the case of transition from fossil fuels, replacement by renewable sources without economical, sustainable, efficient and relatively environmentally benign methods of energy storage, that transition isn't going to work well in the long run.

Lithium batteries fail in every category, yet there do not seem to be any available replacements, except those that will be available "soon"... Maybe when attached to the flying car..

Personally, I’m not overly concerned about the EV-only after 20XX mandates being thrown around by governments. Especially in the USA, we have a very long and rich history of creating requirements and then extending the due dates multiple times, sometimes to what seems like infinity. Every now and then, we simply repeal the mandate.

A great example (but certainly not the only one): Real ID. Passed by Congress in 2005, due for full implementation in 2008…but still not fully implemented. The current date for it to be implemented now is 2025. And, meeting that requirement was magnitudes simpler than converting transportation from one propulsion source to another.

I imagine we’ll end up putting the all-EV requirement in the folder next to where we keep the flying car promises…

 

[Kevin]

Please keep government action / inaction out of the discussion pls as that definitely tends to lead the thread off-topic; thanks

 

[Black21Limited]

Another not so green aspect, where Tesla is creating the worst case scenario.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/scratched-ev-battery-insurer-may-050459910.html

 

[FelineFreddie]

Another example of the law of unintended consequences…

Let’s make the battery pack (the most expensive single component in the vehicle) a structural component that can’t be repaired, but it’ll save some $$$ in the design and manufacturing process. IMO, thats showing little concern for the product once the sale and delivery has been made.

Not much different that designing a vehicle that will get the equivalent of 250 mpg, but the fuel it needs to run on is a combination of ground diamonds and gold.

 

[Marty03]

I drove my daughter's '22 Tesla Model Y for the first time yesterday.
All I can say is what an engineering marvel!
The accelerator/regen braking pedal was the most intriguing aspect to the car.
In my hour of driving it, I did not touch the brake pedal once!
But for where I live, with a long, cold winter, it just doesn't make sense for me.
The stock Tesla tires are horrible in the cold.
So factor in a winter set of wheels/tires, and there's $2000 out of pocket.
Then the installation of a Tesla charger and associated electrical circuit in the house would be another $1500 - $2000.
I can do my own electrical, but most people can't.
I drove their family to the airport, and travelling about 30km round trip in the cold with the cabin heat set to 20C (68F) consumed 8% of the battery capacity. (It's a long range model).
There are so many electrical and electronic gadgets on the Y that Murphy's Law guarantees some expensive repairs down the road.
As an example, any time any door is opened, the body computer lowers that door's window about a half inch.
The reason is that the windows are frameless, and on closing the door, air pressure would prevent the door from closing without a heavy push.
You can count on that intricate window opening/closing subsystem to give an owner grief at some time down the road.
The suspension was very firm, and along with the hard compound, low rolling-resistance tires, the ride was anywhere from rough to bone-jarring.
And of course, there are no gauges of any sort in front of the driver.
This car is designed for someone who is computer savvy and knowledgable in the way a vehicle operates.
Otherwise, a typical ICE owner would be baffled and confused even getting the Tesla to move.
A LOT of reading and absorption is required.
The large screen centered between the driver and passenger is very distracting, and very necessary to be constantly viewed to know anything about the vehicle, its operation, and its speed.
There are no blind side warnings in the outside mirrors, only graphical representations of vehicles around the Tesla and actual 360 degree cameras on the big screen if you want to have their images displayed.
I did like the drivetrain.
No gear or engine noises of course, and the accelerator pedal is like a rheostat operating the twin motors.
Acceleration is effortless and exhilarating.
So in conclusion, I was very happy to get back in my Forester today.
If you are at all entertaining the thought of buying a Tesla, a test drive with a Tesla savvy co-pilot is mandatory IMHO.

I agree with you 100%. Personally, I believe EVs are good to a point but shouldn’t be jammed down our throats so to speak. I know out in California they are having a rough time on occasions charging those due to grid and storm issues. In a decade from now, battery replacement is going to be a lot of $$$$$. Side note…. Last three weeks I’ve seen two Tesla’s pulled over on the side of the road. No accident, just out of juice. NO THANKS

 

[JT@RC]

Hey, what happened to dead batteries after it no longer working? Huh?

 

[tujpo63]

Reminds me of the time I test drove a friend's electric car. While the engineering was impressive, I couldn't shake the feeling of longing for the familiarity of my own vehicle. Speaking of which, I once spent hours researching Tesla Model Y interior accessories online. It's amazing how personal touches can make a car feel more like home.

 

[DragonSubie7]

Reading through this thread that I'd forgotten, I looked into the Aptera EV vehicle noted on a post.
The company is still working on funding, and just got some more, and still doesn't have a manufacturing date that was supposed to be 2021, but it has 22,000 customers who reserved one for $100 that are waiting.

The 2 seat 3 wheeler is obviously not competition for a Forester, and is actually "safety rated" as a motorcycle, so positive crash test results may require the occupants to wear a helmet and have a lot of luck, as the height of the occupant's heads in the vehicle appear to be about the level of a lifted pickup's bumper.
Eeek.
In any case, the motorcycle designation avoids most typical safe vehicle requirements.

The original estimated price of ~$25K now has a "price subject to change" reservation estimate of $33,200 for the base car, er vehicle.

For that estimated price, you get the vehicle with a full set of solar panels, 400mile (estimated?) fully charged, 40 miles self charged daily range (estimated?), and all wheel, 3 wheel drive.