Sidenote: use a genuine Subaru tstat or Stant's XACTstat ONLY. No regular Stant. No nothing else. The construction IS that different.

For HG I would make sure they are a multi layer steel construction. You can use the turbo Subaru gaskets, Six Star, or others. But MLS is a must.

 

You can use the turbo Subaru gaskets

No no no no no... Don't use subaru turbo gaskets. There is absolutely zero need for turbo gaskets.

Buy a Felpro head gasket set, roughly $150 on Rockauto and comes with every gasket and seal you need to complete the job. I've used felpros in the past and have liked them.

 

Why no no no no no, on the turbo Subaru MLS head gaskets out of curiosity?

 

I've researched HG jobs extensively in preparation of my 2010 potentially needing them (53k and still intact!) and I have found no reason not to use the OEM turbo MLS gaskets. When comparing them to aftermarkets it seems as if price and availability should be the key factor. I have not seen a report of a turbo MLS gasket failing in an NA EJ25 when proper surface prep is done.

I say no because they are not needed. Yeah they could work but they are thicker so unless you need to make up some material, I would not use them.

People think that turbo gaskets will fix the problem NA subarus have for blowing or losing gaskets. They do not. The reason why subarus are so prone to losing head gaskets are due to their design. The open block design of the EJ is 100% the cause of head gasket failures, some members and I have discussed this before on the forum. The reason why turbo motors don't blow gaskets are due to the design of closed and semi closed decks.

 

I've researched HG jobs extensively in preparation of my 2010 potentially needing them (53k and still intact!) and I have found no reason not to use the OEM turbo MLS gaskets. When comparing them to aftermarkets it seems as if price and availability should be the key factor. I have not seen a report of a turbo MLS gasket failing in an NA EJ25 when proper surface prep is done.

 

I would agree that an open deck configuration is a huge part of the problem. It is decently cheap to buy aluminum cylinder support inserts/sleeves for this engine to effectively make it semi closed.

Whether the block is redecked or not, I have not seen the turbo gaskets fail due to the usual failure on an EJ251 or EJ253. I know that the gasket is not the end all solution, but the lifespan of the turbo gasket repair seems to last the remainder of the vehicle's life. Shops such as AWD Auto and others have indicated they have never seen engines come back for head gaskets after an MLS gasket was installed.

I would recommend redecking sleeves if you intend to drive the car hard for prolonged periods, such as on the track. If not, the turbo or aftermarket MLS gaskets seem to do the job just fine. It is worth noting the OEM turbo gaskets actually crush down to be thinner than the NA gasket when torqued. Accordingly you gain .1 compression, there is not a valve clearance issue with this.

EDIT: I briefly searched and cannot seem to find the sleeves for the NA engine. It is possible I was mistaken and they do not exist without doing custom work. In light of this an MLS gasket and better head studs seems to be the best fix we have. Unless you swap everything over to an EJ255 block from a WRX :grin2:

 

totally agree with you! I'd also recommend o-ringing the cylinders. thats what i will do if it ever blows up on me again.

 

my go to person is barnfindbernie on ebay; barnfindbernie on eBay or you can check out the supporting vendors I'm sure they could help. You don't necessarily have to resurface the heads but you do need to check them for flatness which should be done with a machinists straight edge and 0.0020 inch feeler gauge. If the engine has over heated there is good chance they need resurfacing. You can find Six star and Fel pro MLS gaskets from other sellers on ebay.

 

Thanks for the link to barnfindbernie.

My valve cover gaskets are not leaking and they were supposedly replaced just before I purchased the car. Do I need to purchase that kit and do all of the valve stuff? I have no idea how to do this. Is it difficult?

 

Ok, so feeler gauges: http://www.autozone.com/clamps-and-...-and-measuring-tools/feeler-gauge/oem-22-blades-go-no-go-feeler-gauge/1928_0_0/

Machinist's Straight Edge: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cbi-56475/overview/

Does anyone know how long the heads are? Will this 18 inch Straight Edge be sufficient?

 

I will recommend the felpro head gasket kit. Every gasket and seal you need from start to finish. Felpros head gaskets are MLS design, subaru also has an improved design for their head gaskets. I've heard great things about six star and they are highly recommended.

 

I will also vouch for the Felpro gaskets, I just put them on my 2001 Forester. The motor is sitting in and waiting on me to get a buddies help to mate back up the transmission. Time will tell on my part whether or not I made a mistake without getting the heads resurfaced. I have a couple of machinist straight edges though, and I used one and wrapped it in silicone carbide 400 grit, then 600 grit, then 800 grit and resurfaced the head and block this way. I did use a feeler gauge before hand and all was good. The surface was alomost polished looking, but there was still definitely enough grit to make a good seal. I replaced every gasket on my motor, and the coolant crush washers as two were leaking. I also upgraded the oil separator to the metal Dorman brand and replaced that other oring that is right next to it. Also just from experience only use the oem ngk plugs, and make sure the clean off the ignition coil points with some emery cloth and grease them and the plug wires up good with some dielectric grease. You will also want to pick up some liquid gasket if you open up the oil pan (you may not want to do this, but I wanted to get a better look at the condition of the bottom end, plus I wanted to throw some fresh paint on the pan, and valve covers).

 

The straight edge that you posted should be long enough for Subaru heads and for most other heads also. Go ahead and get your feeler gauges from summit too, get a flat set for checking the flatness, and a bent end set for valve clearances. It wont hurt to check valve clearances while you are in there, as you will have to take the valve covers off to get to the head bolts anyways.

 

Ok, so if I am going to need to remove the valve covers to get the heads off, I definitely need to buy the valve cover gasket kit, right? It would be silly to reuse the current gaskets, right? Thanks

 

I would think it would be silly to reuse any gasket while you are in there, might as well do some preventative maintenance. I bought the Felpro set from Rockauto and it was a great value in my opinion, I did have to get the front and rear main seal separately as they were not included in the valve grind kit. I will search for the felpro set and post a link here in a few seconds.

 

http://http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=446687&cc=1378739&jnid=424&jpid=9

This is the set I used.

 

Find a good machine shop in your area they will check the heads for you for free or a charge for flatness.
As for headgaskets using a six star head gasket is a good idea or other MLS. I believe subaru now uses only MLS but I could be wrong.

There is a lot of feedback on the forums and the web that felpro gaskets can work but they can be problematic as well on Subaru's

Here are a couple of great links:
http://youtu.be/5UYkfuTyugk

Subaru Head Gasket Problems Explained. - Seattle Subaru Repair

http://youtu.be/5PLdz-lXnQA

http://youtu.be/ddFsFfiyOvg

Subaru Outback Head Gasket Repair

Also having the heads machined is a good call or at the very least checked for square and sanded. No whiz wheels as mentioned in the underhood service article.

 

While you have the engine out, replace the rear main seal. Make sure to seat it it flush. If you go in beyond flush it will leak (and it can go in beyond flush). Put it in flush with the bevel. Get a Subaru OEM rear seal.

Also replace the O-ring for the oil cooler. It is cheap insurance and is much easier to replace with the engine out.

There is an O-ring behind the oil pump that is prone to leaking, so if yours is leaking, now would be time to change it.

Also, get new head bolts. You will need two sets of 6. I got mine at Rock Auto.

While you have your engine out, look for places where you can upgrade any ground wires. I was able to upgrade a couple of mine to a 10g wire. In the places where I could not upgrade the wire, I made sure to clean up any grounding points with a wire wheel or sand paper.

When you are removing the exhaust manifold bolts. Shoot the studs with PB blaster and let them sit for an hour or so (overnight would be better). Then hit them with a wire wheel on a drill to clean them up. You want to remove the nuts and not remove the stud if possible. Sometimes if you pull that stud out, you will take some of the aluminum with it. No bueno.

Remember to break loose the crank bolt and the cam bolts (if you are going to replace the seals) while the engine is in the vehicle and the old timing belt is on. You are taking a chance that your cams might slip a little, but if you are in the service position your valves will not be able to contact the pistons. If you do not break them loose while the engine is in the vehicle, you can slip a large screwdriver into the plate that connects to the torque converter and it will not allow the crank to turn. I have also used a large strap wrench to hold the cam pulleys in place.

Have a large supply of rags on hand, and a roll of blue painters tape to tape up the intake holes on the heads (and any other holes). We don't want any nuts or bolts falling down in there. Also get some 90% alcohol at WalMart and some BLUE scotch brite pads. Those pads help with cleaning up old gaskets and they will not scratch/damage the aluminum. I used the alcohol to make sure that my final clean up removed any oils that were on the mating surfaces before I installed any gaskets. The 90% alcohol will dry quickly and leave no residue. If this is your first time, have plenty of ziplock bags and a sharpy to label those bags. Use them to put your bolts/nuts in. It it cheap insurance for when you are putting it all back together. It might seem like it is slowing you down as you are taking things apart, but in the end it helps with assembly. Also, take plenty of pictures as you disassemble, that saved my bacon the first time I pulled the engine out of a subie!

Be sure to have a piece of plywood or thick cardboard to protect your cooler.

 

Also, get new head bolts. You will need two sets of 6. I got mine at Rock Auto.

Not necessary to do that.... I re-used mine on my job 1.5 years ago and most shops do not get new ones either. The only important bit, is to make DARN sure you remember the assigned seating arrangement of each bolt, as the 2 center bolts have a different final torque setting than the outside 4 bolts on each head. For the '01 he's working on, the center bolts are probably painted black on the 12 point end. On other years the outside bolts were painted bright reddish or orange. I followed the initial stretching torque procedure on the bolts, even though some say it's not required.

 

Thanks for all of the tips and info!



Sontag1, I'm not gonna pull the engine. I simply don't have the space, I'm going to do the gaskets with the engine in the car.



I can't seem to find anyplace online that sells silicone radiator hoses and an aluminum radiator for this model. Is the vehicle just too old? Should I got with an OEM radiator and hoses?
Also, do the mls gaskets require the Subaru head gasket conditioner? Thanks

 

I can't seem to find anyplace online that sells silicone radiator hoses and an aluminum radiator for this model. Is the vehicle just too old? Should I got with an OEM radiator and hoses?
Also, do the mls gaskets require the Subaru head gasket conditioner? Thanks

I just installed a Mishimoto Radiator used for 93-98 Impreza. fits perfectly. I'll assume that you could use the silicone hoses from a 93-98 Impreza as well. I just got done installing one in my Forester today. All the details are here: Will Impreza Radiators fit/work? I need a new radiator

The conditioner is just a stop leak. I wouldn't recommend using it. Stop leak is stop leak, regardless of what brand or make up it is. I would not recommend the conditioner.

I will disagree with you based upon every performance Subaru shop and every independent Subaru mechanic I have spoken to uses the turbo gaskets to fix a leaking NA engine if the customer has not supplied a MLS type from Six Star/Felpro/etc. They are thicker, true, but they are also not the same single layer composite junk the standard gasket is.

This won't fix the block design, but a less fragile gasket (read MLS) has always been a successful repair if the job was not done half arsed in my experience.

I'll agree to your disagreement. Gasket material and construction is a huge factor on choosing the right head gaskets. I know almost next to nothing on turbo subaru engines so you have the advantage when it comes to talking about specifications of a turbo head gasket. I simply know that its not a fix all, cure all for our notorious engines.

 

I don't have to drain the oil to do this job, right? The oil should stay in the oil pan? Or is there a certain amount that lives in the engine if you don't drain the oil?


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

 

You don't have to but I'd recommend you at least change it when you're done. Some of it will live in the motor, the valve covers and heads. You'll loose at most 1 quart.

 

I just had head gaskets and ALL related parts T-belt, T-stat,W-pump,etc. done by dealer. $105.00/hour flat rate.
Parts:$696.24. Labor:$1385.00. F.Y.I. incentive for do it yourself...

My new to Me 2003 FXS (Daughter's winter ride).

 

That's cheap, local Independent shops here asking $3,200.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

 

This video that montanasuby posted explains the torque process if you reuse the head bolts very well. Watch from 12:16.
http://youtu.be/ddFsFfiyOvg

 

Thanks SueBrew and Quadrozontal, I ended up buying the headbolts, so no worries.

I bought everything too late and it didn't arrive until yesterday. I wont have time to do the job now. So I'm just gonna fix the radiator and keep driving as is until school ends and I have some time to do it this summer. But I'll continue to post any questions I have here.

Thanks for everyone's support!

 

I personally suggest against driving it in this condition. You run the risk of doing more damage. If the car is loosing the coolant to the combustion chamber there is a chance it can leak combustion pressure into the cooling system and start breaking things. If it is loosing coolant to the oil system then the oil will no longer be a lubricant. The only time it is acceptable to put off would be an external oil leak.

As a student myself I suggest taking a couple days off school and doing the job sooner than summer.

 

There's no way I can take the time off school. The leak is very minimal. So I don't think I'm having that issue. I rarely drive, I think it'll be ok. But thanks for the tip. I appreciate all input.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

 

still working on it??? or are you waiting for more time to complete it? just checking up.