G'day & Welcome @PoleDancer

Not sure what experience members here will have to relay for a Bronco Sport

 

These are not even comparable vehicles....Bronco vs Wrangler would be a more likely comparison. And Kevin is correct....finding anyone with Bronco experience would be a long shot since it's literally brand new.

 

Bronco Sport Badlands vs Forester Wilderness IS a good comparison. They are similar in size, capabilities, etc.

 

Jim, note that the Bronco Sport is NOT the "regular" Bronco... The Sport is a front wheel drive based, transverse engine Escape (Focus-based) with an offroad costume. The big Bronco is a separate body/frame truck (based on the Ranger) to be built in Wayne, Michigan and is fully sold out for the 2021 model year. The Sport is to be made in Mexico...I have seen them on the road around Detroit and they look good but will be very high priced for the next year or two until market demand quiets down. Even after that, Ford sticker prices are going to be on the high side compared to Subaru because the domestic mfrs are used to rebates and big discounts.

As for the comparison, I'd expect the Bronco Sport to be "tougher" inside than the Forester, and unlike Subaru, Ford is embracing the off-road culture with colors that are not from the Buick playbook. Ford will have a separate Bronco vehicle line (like they will have a Mustang vehicle line). The standard engine in the Sport is gonna be the 1.5 turbo 3-cylinder Ecoboost, with the 2.0 Ecoboost as an option. I don't think the Sport is going to have any serious off-road stuff like a 2-speed transfer case, but they are looking for some offroad credibility like the "Trail Rated" Jeeps based on transverse engine cars (non-grand Cherokee, Compass, Renegade).

I'm a longtime member of Ford Truck Enthusiasts and there is info out there, but the real truck guys are pretty much ignoring the Bronco Sport because the "big" Bronco is the real truck. There are a lot of photos of the Sport and big Bronco doing some pretty cool offroad stuff in Ford's testing.

 

Jim, note that the Bronco Sport is NOT the "regular" Bronco... The Sport is a front wheel drive based, transverse engine Escape (Focus-based) with an offroad costume.

I was unaware of that...silly that they would use the same name as for the more capable vehicle.

Then to the original question, I doubt that the Forester AWD would be bested by the Ford.

 

What am I missing? I’m mostly asking about the lower end models, and what makes them better than a forester?

You aren't missing anything, although since the Bronco Sport isn't available yet so no one really knows. In general, all these small SUVs are going to have similar off-road capability, the driver making wise decisions will be the main factor as to which vehicle makes it further into the wilderness.

Speaking of wilderness, Subaru apparently will offer the Forester, Outback and Crosstrek with a 'Wilderness' trim starting soon. Expect that price tag to equal the Badlands trim on the baby bronco

 

You aren't missing anything, although since the Bronco Sport isn't available yet so no one really knows. In general, all these small SUVs are going to have similar off-road capability, the driver making wise decisions will be the main factor as to which vehicle makes it further into the wilderness.

Speaking of wilderness, Subaru apparently will offer the Forester, Outback and Crosstrek with a 'Wilderness' trim starting soon. Expect that price tag to equal the Badlands trim on the baby bronco

Any word on what that trim will actually be? I'm curious.

Not counting anything that might be added for the 2022 mid-cycle refresh, I doubt anything about a wilderness trim would tempt me over getting a 2021 sport like I plan to. I'm more of the "want to be able to" outdoors/off-road guy than the "actually doing" outdoors/off-road guy. 😂🤣😂

 

When it comes to the Bronco models - there will be 2 - a Sport that is more of a beefier Ford Escape (trying to be a cheap alternative to the small Land Rover (Discovery?) and a larger model more like a Wrangler and seeming to be more of a retro throwback to the original Bronco from the late 60s.

There is another thread on here about Bronco with more information.

From looking at the Ford site for the Bronco and trying to compare the Forester to the Bronco Sport (sizes, clearances, engines, etc.), the Forester still wins. The Bronco Sport may resonate more with Ford fans and for the "must buy American" shoppers, but it's not really going to be much different from the Forester when it comes to capabilities. It would seem that the Forester will be able to be both a mall-crawler and a capable off-road (soft-road) vehicle where the Ford is more of an either - or proposition and doesn't seem to be as capable to fill both niches.

 

The Bronco vs Bronco Sport is no different from the Nissan Rogue and Rogue Sport - a way to keep consumers moving through a "family" name.

And yes, it was a sad day when Cadillac did away with names with history (DeVille, Seville, Eldorado) in chasing "new" buyers with STS, CTS, DTS and so on... I'm glad many others have NOT done this. It shuns the traditional (and entrenched) buyers in favor of the "today" buyer and builds no real brand loyalty...

Lincoln did the same and everything was named MK___ something... They've returned the Continental name and have contined to offer SUVs with "names" vs some letter/number combo.

Subaru continues to offer a path from the least to the most (even if it's a bit convoluted) that some others have abandoned ...

But the Bronco Sport (BS? Is that irony or bad coincidence) is going to slot against the Forester, RAV4 and other small/mid-size SUV models but is really more of a smaller 4Runner competitor given that they're trying to push the off-road capabilities (given that it's a Bronco).

And yes, the Escape has become the defacto Focus replacement or SUV of the Focus if they contnue to keep the Focus in the line-up and the Escape is more of a competitor to the Crosstrek (just as the Focus would compete with Impreza).

 

The Escape is replacing the Focus AND the Fusion (which was quite popular) in Ford's lineup, which does not make complete sense to me but a compact SUV is a very viable replacement for a midsize car. I think the Nissan Rogue and Rogue Sport thing is stupid too. I have a bud who bought a Foz this year with my input, and at one point I suggested he consider a Rogue (he was looking for low price). He traveled for work, and once rented a Rogue (which I believe to have been the Sport) and did not like it. I believe Nissan bundles sales figures for Rogue and Rogue Sport to look better on paper, but the common name thing can hurt a company if it gives the impression of cheapness.

The Ford Transit Connect/Transit Custom/Transit trio for vans spanning sub-mini to huge is extremely stupid IMO. "Custom" or "Sport" does not have adequate descriptive information to differentiate completely different platforms.

Subaru has IMO done a lame job of defining its vehicles as semi-serious off-roaders. The Forester has a palette from the Buick catalog, with either a black or off-white interior, and the off-white is completely stupid for anyone who uses a vehicle. (White carpeting in a home with children is similarly stupid.) Instead of "Limited" and "Touring" trims, Subaru needs to bolster its outdoorsy image with colors....NOT pearl white and wimpy metallic colors, but maybe non-metallic primary colors, some outdoorsy colors from the camo color palette, and some dark tan or gray interior colors. Jeep is getting on the ball with this, and I suspect Ford is going to do OK with the Bronco also. Next, an orange stripe does not make a Forester "sporty" IMO...how about some nice outdoorsy packages with all terrain tires, good colors, etc... The tan Crosstrek color from a couple years ago is a good example--how about a military looking brown or olive drab interior with that?

I realize I'm not talking about vehicle specs or true capability and lifespan (which may benefit Subaru), but image is an important part of the car market.

 

While we're going off-topic (a bit? maybe not as we're still talking about Foresters!)...

I think that Subaru is finally starting to realize the "softroad" community exists and is a viable market to chase - at least for a while. Until sales fall away and the "softroad" Forester goes the way of the XT...

Remember, of course, what Subaru USED to be - a fairly competent "foul-weather" vehicle for use in the snow belt and PNW - they were solid, reliable and got good mileage and were able to handle just about any driving condition. The off-road/soft-road market has only recently become a "thing" - last 10 years or so. While there were some that made their Subaru AWDs into soft-roaders and this market has really begun to gain traction (pun intended) in the past few years, it's now a market that Subaru is actively courting. One merely needs to see the current advertising and marketing for the Crosstrek and (to a smaller extent) the Outback.

Subaru is seeing that the Forester is a better vehicle for some (many) opposed to the Crosstrek (too small, too underpowered) or the Outback (too long, too "old-Buick-wagon") and the Forester is a better alternative to the Jeep Compass and Cherokee models and (to a lesser extent) the 4Runner... In the leaked sales/marketing plans for SoA over the next few years (was all over the board a month or two ago) there IS a plan for a "Foresty" Forester - some package for the Foreste (and the Outback) that should appeal to the more outdoorsy shoppers. I think it is/was planned for release sometime next year as a 2022 model before the next generation (SL?) would be released in 2023 or 2024. Of course, now with COVID, all those release dates may be off...

Agreed, the orange trim bits on the Forester Sport may not be the most "sporty" but it was something to make the Sport unique beyond the black wheels (which are so common in the SUV markets)... It was something to make it "look" different from a Limited (same wheels, just shiny)... It was something.

As for the colors - not all of us spend all our days off-the-beaten-track and do a fair amount of life on-road... As such, some really DO want those fancier colors... Personally, I love my Marine Blue Pearl (2014 Limited) and don't find that to be a detriment to off-road use. Nor do I find my "platinum" leather interior color to be a bad choice. And for me, it's a much better choice than the black (or charcoal) interior from other colors and the XT - as I live in the desert southwest where a dark interior turns your vehicle to a rolling oven 3 or 4 months of the year.

The "desert khaki" paint from the Crosstrek did not seem to be too popular (iirc) and was gone in a generation. It looked rather bland and had no style - to many at least.

And agreed - image is everything (or at least pretty damn important)... wasn't it Billy Crystal (a la Fernando) that sang "to look good is to feel good" and that looks are "it"...? But we need to recall that for every Forester buyer that is interested in a more off-road capable Forester, there are many more that just DO want that mall-crawler SUV with good economy, stellar safety and an affordable price-point for their daily commute and being around town in Massachusetts, Maine and Vermont or Oregon, Washington and Idaho.

But there is a market for those "tougher" looking Foresters (and Bronco and Bronco Sport) models with more off-road appearance and equipment modifications from the factory. The Bronco is - at least at this point - garnering a lot of interest from the "retro" buying group - the same group that made the PT Cruiser such a hit 20 years ago and continued to sell pretty damn well 10 years later... And also the VW Beetle and Chevy SSH and HHR and the Prowler - a niche market for sure.

Not sure if Subaru is a big enough manufacturer to chase a niche market any longer. Subaru is in a middle place right now - still small enough to keep certain aspects of their past in their present and future - and yet not quite large enough to follow limited market places (like an XT Turbo). They continue to find many buyers - across all the products - and continue to grow in sales and market share, but then need to still keep those core aspects - safety, economical operation and all-weather capability and reliability (overall) while still branching out to find new markets (like the outdoorsy set going camping and soft-roading) without compromising their primary market.

Just like Ford is doing with the Mustang Mach-E - they're compromising their primary market (the sporty car shopper) to add an cross-over like e-vehicle to their product line - to take a successful nameplate and use it to promote a new unproven model... That goes back to the 50s and 60s when you'd have one model name (like Ford Galaxie or Chrysler Newport or Dodge Polara) cover the cheapie economy model to the top line luxo boat. The original New Yorker was an offshoot of the Newport...

now I'm really going to the weeds.

 

While we're going off-topic (a bit? maybe not as we're still talking about Foresters!)...

I think that Subaru is finally starting to realize the "softroad" community exists and is a viable market to chase - at least for a while. Until sales fall away and the "softroad" Forester goes the way of the XT...

Remember, of course, what Subaru USED to be - a fairly competent "foul-weather" vehicle for use in the snow belt and PNW - they were solid, reliable and got good mileage and were able to handle just about any driving condition. The off-road/soft-road market has only recently become a "thing" - last 10 years or so. While there were some that made their Subaru AWDs into soft-roaders and this market has really begun to gain traction (pun intended) in the past few years, it's now a market that Subaru is actively courting. One merely needs to see the current advertising and marketing for the Crosstrek and (to a smaller extent) the Outback.

Subaru is seeing that the Forester is a better vehicle for some (many) opposed to the Crosstrek (too small, too underpowered) or the Outback (too long, too "old-Buick-wagon") and the Forester is a better alternative to the Jeep Compass and Cherokee models and (to a lesser extent) the 4Runner... In the leaked sales/marketing plans for SoA over the next few years (was all over the board a month or two ago) there IS a plan for a "Foresty" Forester - some package for the Foreste (and the Outback) that should appeal to the more outdoorsy shoppers. I think it is/was planned for release sometime next year as a 2022 model before the next generation (SL?) would be released in 2023 or 2024. Of course, now with COVID, all those release dates may be off...

Agreed, the orange trim bits on the Forester Sport may not be the most "sporty" but it was something to make the Sport unique beyond the black wheels (which are so common in the SUV markets)... It was something to make it "look" different from a Limited (same wheels, just shiny)... It was something.

As for the colors - not all of us spend all our days off-the-beaten-track and do a fair amount of life on-road... As such, some really DO want those fancier colors... Personally, I love my Marine Blue Pearl (2014 Limited) and don't find that to be a detriment to off-road use. Nor do I find my "platinum" leather interior color to be a bad choice. And for me, it's a much better choice than the black (or charcoal) interior from other colors and the XT - as I live in the desert southwest where a dark interior turns your vehicle to a rolling oven 3 or 4 months of the year.

The "desert khaki" paint from the Crosstrek did not seem to be too popular (iirc) and was gone in a generation. It looked rather bland and had no style - to many at least.

And agreed - image is everything (or at least pretty damn important)... wasn't it Billy Crystal (a la Fernando) that sang "to look good is to feel good" and that looks are "it"...? But we need to recall that for every Forester buyer that is interested in a more off-road capable Forester, there are many more that just DO want that mall-crawler SUV with good economy, stellar safety and an affordable price-point for their daily commute and being around town in Massachusetts, Maine and Vermont or Oregon, Washington and Idaho.

But there is a market for those "tougher" looking Foresters (and Bronco and Bronco Sport) models with more off-road appearance and equipment modifications from the factory. The Bronco is - at least at this point - garnering a lot of interest from the "retro" buying group - the same group that made the PT Cruiser such a hit 20 years ago and continued to sell pretty damn well 10 years later... And also the VW Beetle and Chevy SSH and HHR and the Prowler - a niche market for sure.

Not sure if Subaru is a big enough manufacturer to chase a niche market any longer. Subaru is in a middle place right now - still small enough to keep certain aspects of their past in their present and future - and yet not quite large enough to follow limited market places (like an XT Turbo). They continue to find many buyers - across all the products - and continue to grow in sales and market share, but then need to still keep those core aspects - safety, economical operation and all-weather capability and reliability (overall) while still branching out to find new markets (like the outdoorsy set going camping and soft-roading) without compromising their primary market.

Just like Ford is doing with the Mustang Mach-E - they're compromising their primary market (the sporty car shopper) to add an cross-over like e-vehicle to their product line - to take a successful nameplate and use it to promote a new unproven model... That goes back to the 50s and 60s when you'd have one model name (like Ford Galaxie or Chrysler Newport or Dodge Polara) cover the cheapie economy model to the top line luxo boat. The original New Yorker was an offshoot of the Newport...

now I'm really going to the weeds.

All a Forester REALLY needs is a BETTER approach angle and a rated front recovery point. PLEASE!!

 

I don't think we are very off-topic. The Bronco Sport falls on top of the Forester in terms of size and capacity, and without instrumented road tests and field testing offroad, there are things to discuss in terms of the comparison between the two vehicles. The "look" and reputation of toughness are both factors.

The Bronco Sport with the 2 liter Ecoboost is gonna be a nice gutsy vehicle and Subaru should consider a turbo for the Foz.

FYI, Toyota has an "Adventure" RAV4 model out, with 2-tone paint schemes inspired by the Land Cruiser and a specific shallow-tread version of the Conti Terrain Contact tire. Jeep Cherokee is right there also, with an optional V6. Honda is "trying" to do an off-road vibe with the new Passport (one size larger) but shooting themselves in the foot with 20" wheels and rubber-band tires but more ground clearance.

Finally, the new "big" Bronco comes in both 2-door and 4-door versions, and the 2-door version is really short in length, shorter than the Foz and Bronco Sport, I think. Like the Wrangler. edit--you mention the 4Runner but that is in the class with the 4-door Bronco and the 4-door Wrangler (and the departed XTerra, etc.) It's a huge and heavy truck and yes, I drove one when I was shopping Foresters

ps final note...I owned and drove a 1980 FJ40 Land Cruiser as my daily driver for over a year. No A/C or power steering... In that context everything else is a limo.

 

The Wilderness thing for Subarus is called a "trim" package, not a functional off-road package but it would be cool if they could emulate the Jeep Trailhawk packages and add a credentialed off-road suspension and tires.

And of course, most people who buy off-road worthy vehicles don't use them often or hard, same as Corvette or Mopar Hellcat buyers rarely exceed 200 mph. In times of Covid, activities like overland camping have a lot of appeal even if they are just fantasies. If we ever have a zombie or nuclear apocalypse, having a practical, economical, and capable off-roader may come in handy and would likely be more useful than having a 200 mph sports car

 

The Sport has actually surprised a lot of people that have the Bronco reserved.

Start at 1:39

 

The "wonderful" ECOBOOST engines are not turbocharged for power - they're turbocharged for economy. The EcoBoost motors are designed to replace larger and more powerful (and, thereby less economical, more thirsty) motors. In previous comparison tests of the Forester and the Escape, they found that while the 2.0 EcoBoost could keep up and provided some spirited power (and was, iirc, only on the top line), the 1.6 EcoBoost that was on the rest and had to work too damn hard just to keep up with the NA 2.5 of the Forester and the 2.5 of the Mazda CX5 (at the time) and the 2.X of the RAV4 .... this was comparing the 2014 models.

This is the same thing with the new (and currently only JDM) 1.8 DIT motor in the Forester Sport and the Levorg - it's a smaller motor offering similar power (but better torque) as the 2.5 motor that is designed and tuned for economy and not power.

Jeep offers a V6 because the loyalists would be after them with torches and pitchforks if they only offered those Fiat sourced "multiair" 4 cylinder engines. It's there for torque as most off-roaders will still claim (and rightly so) that it is torque that gets you up n down those rocks and not HP. And that V6 gets dismal MPG - which may not be a big concern for some but it is a major deal breaker for others....

As for the Passport (oddly, the advertising for the Passport keeps popping up as I type this), they're trying. One of our former contributors (and a friend of mine) traded to the Passport after his XT bit the CVT dust. Of course, he abused the hell out of the CVT (he even admits to same) and has done some head-to-head comparisons on trail rides with others in SJ and SK Foresters. The Passport's system is at least as good as the Subaru Symmetrical AWD (with XMode). I should say his Passport is highly modified (lifted, better wheels n tires, etc.).

The "big" Bronco doesn't compare or compete at all with the Forester or the Brocno Sport and it never would. It's a totally different beast - just as the Wrangler and Cherokee are totally different beasts and are generally not cross-shopped.

Yes, the Passport is hindered - as are many compact and mid-size SUVs - by bigger wheels, low-profile ttires and that "look". It's a nod back to the designers who are still all living in the "Fast & Furious" moments when you slap big wheels and short tires on a vehicle to fill out the wheel wells and to provide better handling on road. As you allude to most drivers of hi-perf cars (Vette, Hellcats, Mustang, Camaro, Porsche and on and on) most don't drive even close to the limits these vehicles offer. And with many off-road SUVs and trucks, the same can be said. Most buyers of the Wrangler only see dirt when they go shopping for a Christmas tree or the Halloween Pumpkin at some farm - otherwise they're all parking lot crawlers...

For what it's worth, I've also had previous 4x4 trucks (back before the appellation SUV was a twinkle is some markeing maven's maw) - a Dodge Ramcharger and a Dodge Raider (Mitsu Montero in Dodge drag)... Back when you had to stop and move a lever for the auto-locking hubs to engage...

If the Forester Wilderness package does have some buyers and we see some volume - it may be that they will then start figuring out how to offer more off-road friendly features to the fairly capable Forester (and Outback) - but then again, maybe not. Only because if some yokel buys it and goes off-road and breaks it, it will be Subaru's fault and they'll have to fix it.

I still stand by my comment that the market for capable "soft-road" overlanding abled SUVs is small and may evaporate in time. Many of us that have modded our Foresters for overlanding know that it's not cheap and it's a blast but the typical SUV shopper could care less. For them it's more about the look... just like some of those big-@$$ trucks you see on today's roadways and highways that have gigantic wheels and tires and probably see less than 1% of the time doing what they're designed to do... For that matter, at least half of the pick-ups out there never haul more than a week or two of groceries in their beds.

 

Lots of stuff there and it's all pretty accurate but 2020 Ecoboosts are not 2014 Ecoboosts. In '15 the 2.0 went to a twin scroll turbo and has been a great engine in the Edge and quite fast in the Escape. The Raptor has a 450 hp EB 3.5 and the Ford GT gets 676 hp(!?) or something from a 3.5 EB. Anything they make with a turbo get the EB name, and that is a growing and large percentage of all Fords sold.

I disagree with you on the soft roader thing being a passing fad. I'm secure in my manliness but like a soft-road type vehicle for Michigan chuckholes and snow and yes, I like the look. Subaru needs to work on their image for outdoorsy folks...this sure ain't asking much with the basic vehicles being so solid. Run focus groups with real campers and outdoors people or something. I want Desert Tan with an Olive Drab interior, dammit

 

I want a wildtrak raptor edition.

that thing will kick azzz

 

Original Poster here,

so it sounds like best guess is the Bronco Sport doesn’t seem to offer anything more than the forester, until maybe the badlands model. I’ve done more research and the lower models don’t even offer the ability to send power to individual wheels. The Badlands do. So maybe I’m reading this wrong but this means the badass Bronco sport is less capable than a base Model Subaru? That just feels wrong. I hope I’m wrong because after two Subaru’s I kinda want to try something new...and they really nailed the look of the Bronco sport. But wait...Wilderness model forester???? Now I’m curious!

 

Hey there OP...glad you're still with us. I haven't researched the details of the Bronco Sport but am a longtimer on the Ford Truck Enthusiasts page...and actually have my own spy photos of a Bronco Sport in camo, within the same week they hit the press (I-94 in the Detroit area.) I would give the Bronco Sport a year or so and with the "big" Bronco sold out for the full 2021 model year into 2022, I'm betting that prices will be high.

For now, take a look at the RAV4 Adventure model*edit--I think there is a RAV4 TRD Off Road Model*, or hang around and wait for the Wilderness Subarus although my gut tells me it will be primarily a trim package. I would be surprised if they offered even all-terrain tires but we'll see.

 

I started looking to compare these two models as well the other day. We have a 2019 Forester Sport with no plans of getting rid of it though. I want to say we got it for around 28k...give or take, and the BrocoSport is a good 3-6k over that, until we see if there are any discounts, though, it's brand new so I doubt it.

The wheel base is exactly the same as us, but it is wider (i assume in body and track), and taller BUT the B.S. (lol) is way shorter with less cargo and passenger volume. I think it is around 10" shorter overall and that is a deal killer for me right away.

About the only thing it has going for it in my book, is that it looks like a tiny defender which is pretty cool, and it can be had with 29" tires from the factory. But we can go 28.5" without a lift...that's actually my only gripe about the Forester Sport, the wheel and tire choice was terrible. We're about to drop to 17" and get new tires as well.

 

While the ground clearance of the Forester and Bronco Sport are about the same, the approach angles are different making the Bronco Sport much more capable off road.
Bonus for the Sport will be no CVT. My Sport will be built in a couple of weeks, hope to be able to pick it up mid December. If it drives well and I decide to purchase you'll find my 18XT Touring with 12k miles in the classified section.

 

I had not given approach and departure angles a thought but the spec I found on our 2017 Foz shows 23 approach, 25 departure, and 21 breakover...so the stock Foz has a better breakover than the Bronco Sport in either of the latter's guises. I'd bet with removal of the front spoiler you could get the approach angle to be better. A slight tire upsize would also help out the Foz. The limit with both of these vehicles is breakover angle which is a function of wheelbase and ground clearance at the low belly point.

I think I remember an 18" water fording spec on the Foz circa 2017.

The real hero of clearances will be the 2 door short wheelbase "big" Bronco with the huge factory wheel/tire setup.

 

Wbdubya, are you getting the badlands version then? It’s the one with similar ground clearance and upgraded suspension.

Yo YoGeorge, I tried out the Adventure model of the RAV4. Interior is a not my thing. Too many fake tire treads everywhere. Like the seats were made from some roadkill animal with cloth for hide. And sooo expensive. I guess I can no longer pay for a little bit of off-road ability when the base forester seems to give it to you for free. At this point it just come down to wanting to pay extra or not. If I end up forking out more money, I’d get the badlands.

 

Wbdubya, are you getting the badlands version then? It’s the one with similar ground clearance and upgraded suspension.

@PoleDancer I have a First Edition on order which is one step up from the Badlands with the Badlands package. I also have a reservation (Ford only requires a $100 refundable deposit) in for a 2 door full size Bronco just in case the Sport doesn't pan out. If I forgo the Sport I'll be waiting until 2022 before I can get my hands on it.

 

I don't have a question about the Foz being an impressive vehicle and it's more than I need for Michigan snow, rough campground trails and access roads. Our '17 Premium was a great bargain and is my wife's assigned daily driver. Putting some slightly larger all-terrain tires and maybe a couple skidplates on it would cost a grand or a bit more and at that point I'd be willing to do some pretty stiff trail stuff. Maybe a 2" lift kit if I wanted to do a bit more yet off road while sacrificing some road handling. Good luck, G

 

I can’t take Subaru seriously with its current setup. I drove one again the other day and it is such a dog.

 

@YoGeorge - I added the Primitive Racing skid plates to my 2014 Limited and did some AT tires, too. Yep, about a grand in total (tires were 150 each plus mounting, skid plates were about 300 for the 3 piece set and then installed)....

You don't need a lift to make it viable for offroad.

The CVT does just fine @wbdubya - working in conjunction with the X-Mode, it gets you out of many a situation - something you never could get with a manual trans or even a traditional auto... because the CVT gives you almost an unlimited set of gear ratios, and a typical manual or auto gives you 5 or 6 (yes, there are 8 and 9 speed autos, but they're not typical) - giving you some pretty good ratios and final drive numbers.

Now the 2020 and 2021 have an improved X-Mode that changes the programming more.

A mostly stock Forester will never beat a Jeep Wrangler - but can surely keep up in most situations. Then with some of the majorly modded Foresters, you can get in those same spots (and back out again) as those Jeeps - and the Bronco (sport or full-size).

 

Hello, I’ve driven a number of Subaru’s in the past, most recently a leased forester 2017. I would get the latest model, in fact I’ve test driven it and it is way nicer than the 2017. Smooth, Comfy etc.

I started thinking of the Bronco Sport, but it looks to me that anything less than the 34k badlands model is actually worse off-road than a 23k Subaru Forester. Well maybe not worse but certainly less ground clearance. Am I missing something. The broncos seem over priced. The interior looks bad. Do they have something that justifies the cost? At 34k for the badlands I’d rather get a fore runner. What am I missing? I’m mostly asking about the lower end models, and what makes them better than a forester?

After heavily shopping Bronco Sport and checking out Badlands and other models and then checking out Subaru Forester Forester has much more to offer especially now they have wilderness and the Wilderness is where you geared with the 4:11 looking forward to it being Torque'ier off the line.

All wheel drive all the time AKA four-wheel drive just put Subaru in a different class than the majority of broncosports that will be on the road the Badlands has a button to lock all four wheels in 4-wheel drive but that's only and slippery or dirt conditions Rock mode

 

I have driven quite a few vehicles over the years, and as far as i am concerned, nothing beats Subarus AWD system(s).