In my limited experience going downhill in the XT - first off, just letting up on the gas will induce significant engine braking. Apart from that, if you set your cruise to the speed you need, I think it is pretty good at maintaining that - even down hill. I don't think you will need 'Low' for that.

The best way to find out is to go for a test drive and take it down hill to your heart's content + Satisfaction.

 

So two stories: first going down tiger mountain (seattle) at 55 mph speed limit; no need to down shift at all the engine does brake.
second going down mt. constitution which had a use low gear sign with speed limits 35-40, I got a minimal amount of engine breaking from low, but really nothing that much more than just leaving it in D, I did have to hit the break fairly often in both modes to moderate speed. Wish I had manushifters.

 

Curious, did you try the cruise control to maintain speed?

 

I drive down the Lewiston hill which is a 7% grade around 60/5 mph, I test drove mine up and down this hill as well and the salesmen said that I could switch it into low going down to help with breaking. I've done it a couple times but I wonder myself if it is too much strain on it. It does pull back pretty well and I wouldn't mind using it every time I take a trip down but I still worry it might not be the best option.

I've also done the cruise but like someone said it still kicks on the breaks, this is a steep hill though so my experience is different.

 

Thanks for help on Forester mountain down hill braking

I'll probably reconsider my Forester with CVT and no paddle shifters. (Turbo only available). Twice a week I drive up and down two mountain passes at 12,000 ft. both ways, both passes. That makes 8 total down hill pass runs per week. I could go back to stick shift but at 62 years old my wife and I are enjoying the automatics most of the time. My minivan is not happy with all the braking and I have a feeling the Forester may not be either.
Thanks everyone, Rick B.

 

For your type of driving and the roads you will encounter, in my opinion, I would consider the 2014 Land Rover Range Rover Sport.

Read here:

2014 Range Rover Sport Photos and Info – News – Car and Driver


I think this is what you are really looking for. It is not in the price range of a Subaru, but you're getting a vehicle that will fit your needs.

 

For your type of driving and the roads you will encounter, in my opinion, I would consider the 2014 Land Rover Range Rover Sport.

I would have loved a range rover sport!

Downside is the cost is $30,000 more than what I paid for my loaded XT Touring.


I would recommend getting a Forester XT, so you get the turbo power which would help a lot at 12,000 feet, along with paddle shifters for your long descents.

 

If the OP is looking at a 2.5i Premium, I doubt they'd even consider something that starts with "Range Rover." Vastly different price realms - You could buy two Foresters for less than the price of a RRS - Just in case you get tired of the first one.

I'd suggest taking a 2.5L Mazda CX-5 on a test drive. You can get the AWD Touring model in the same price range as a 2.5i Premium and you'll have manual control of the fantastic 6-speed A/T (in addition to enough power to charge through the mountains at 184 HP / 185 lb-ft of torque). It might be more versatile on the descents. I haven't had any issue with my Forester thus far, but I'm only 4,000 miles in. (Coming down from Estes Park was not an issue in the slightest) In fact I LOVE the CVT on inclines. It's always right where it needs to be.

Of course the XT Premium is also an option for $3000 more than the 2.5i Premium. You get a high degree of transmission control (6 and 8 speed manual modes controllable via paddles), but the trade off is greater fuel expenditure and higher maintenance costs.

 

Mountains is the reason why in Europe all Foresters with CVTs come with paddle shifters. Even the base models.

I would opt for XT in your case. Otherwise you will just wear down your brakes real fast.

 

There's nothing wrong with high rpms and engine braking unless you have an oil consumption problem. Keep an eye on your oil levels after doing this and see if they have changed.

 

I'm on my 3rd w a '15. Don't like the new auto L gear- I want my 3 low gears back. It can't handle forest roads downhill. Maybe they need to change the name?

 

You are stuck now, as I was. No amount of magical thinking or suggesting changing the name will modify the transmission. I did the same for two years to no avail. XT only solution if you want to keep Forester. Some folks thought the 2016 NA models would get DI, paddles, and a hp jump but it didn't happen. Subaru moves very, very, slowly. In some ways, maybe that is good. Honda put the DI engine and CVT in the newest CRV and it vibrates like a motorboat.

Amazingly, very few folks on the board complain about this issue, and many buy the vehicle for "outdoor recreation" pursuits where it should be important.

Hope you find a solution.

EJ


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@dawgMobile added paddle shifters to his USDM Forester. It requires a TCU from a Canadian model, though, so it could get spendy.

 

So I have a thread where I talk through life with add-on paddles, though need to do an update. Just know, you're probably going to void the warranty, though to be honest, I think it could be contested. There are a lot of real benefits to adding the paddles. First, at least my experience is that the horrible toe-in on the throttle is taken care of. Dealing with start and stop traffic is no longer a horrible lurchy experience. I also have really good medium to high speed engine braking, and I also love when coming to a stop givin g a little downshift, car stops on a dime rather than having that weird nonlinear brake moment I find on mine.

Downsides: more rubber band, for whatever reason, though when it does this I can induce a nice downshift manually. The real downside is that the warm up experience is far worse, more throbbiness, climbing up a steep hill with the engine cold just makes the engine seem like it's going to stall entirely.

I've been reflecting on that cold engine experience a lot. Nearly bought an XT this weekend because of it. I do most of my daily driving while the engine is cold, so I live in that horrible zone. I'm pretty sure it's all connected to what I call the dead-2nd gear experience of the 2.5i-cvt combo. Even on the old '701 TCU unit (the one '14 2.5i USDM fozzes came with) after the overly aggressive launch there was this place where a normal trans would shift to 2nd and it always felt dead and underpowered (this is where the XT just wipes our butts, it takes off at that point, where we stall). This is the power(?) zone where the '711 TCU is shuddering.

Once warm, the TCU is just fine. This is probably 5-10 minutes longer than the blue light.

 

I think I detail cost either in the original Paddle thread (I was not the OP; some guy in Texas did this first with an Asian TCU ['211]--I went Canadian because I thought [and am pretty sure I'm right] that it would be more compatible with our PZEV) or in my Project Canadian Goose member journal.

 

Thanks again for documenting the paddle up. In my 2014 2.5i, I never got the "smooth" 0-30 mph experience, especially when the system was relatively cold (blue light out), although after the first 10,000 miles of use it improved somewhat. When I first got the vehicle it bucked hard when cold and with light throttle. Dealer said it was normal, whatever that is.

Open road and moderate throttle I could smooth it out, although excess throttle tip in was always a pain to baby all the time. This is the third model year for the FB in the Forester and they still are building in that overly sensitive throttle. I am guessing this is done to provide the driver with a sense of power off the line with only 170 ponies but I found it very annoying. The XT has a normal throttle response, and rubber band sensation is so minor it doesn't bother me like it did in the 2.5. There I sometimes felt like taking a hammer to the CVT because the slipping clutch feeling was acute and to me grating.

Interesting that on the new Outback CVT ratio "steps" are built in and become available if you give it moderate throttle. It feels almost exactly like a "normal" step transmission. Kind of ridiculous to have to do that but I found it the best driving CVT I have ever tried, although the 2.5 Outback is really underpowered. Too bad you have to pay out the ears to get the 3.6.

Thanks for your post.

EJ


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I am using the term "Friction Brake" to help differentiate between the brake modes being discussed... normal disc brakes (what happens when you press the brake pedal) are friction brakes.

If you feel stronger deceleration than when you shift to L from D, I can almost assure you that cruise control is using the disc brakes to slow you down.

Shifting to L from D won't lunge you forward in your seat... there isn't enough torque on these small motors to provide powerful instant engine braking like you might see in a V8 vehicle.

 

I am using the term "Friction Brake" to help differentiate between the brake modes being discussed... normal disc brakes (what happens when you press the brake pedal) are friction brakes.

If you feel stronger deceleration than when you shift to L from D, I can almost assure you that cruise control is using the disc brakes to slow you down.

Shifting to L from D won't lunge you forward in your seat... there isn't enough torque on these small motors to provide powerful instant engine braking like you might see in a V8 vehicle.

So what about the Foresters with paddle shifters -- like the Canadian models? When they use paddle shifters to 'downshift' is friction braking being utilized as well? or only engine breaking? I thought it would solely be engine breaking. And likewise, I thought the cruise control would be using engine breaking solely to reduce speed to the set speed.

I do have Eyesight BTW. Does that matter in my testing?

 

Josh:
Thanks for putting all of this in one place.

EJ


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The cruise on the older ones (like mine) is engine only. Glad they finally tied in the regular brakes to the engine braking. No more 60 to 75 "runaway" in a 55 zone. downhill. (Maybe they had to with the CVT?)...

By the way, it's "Brakes", not "Breaks". Breaks is broken, Brakes are what slow you down. If you have Engine Breaks, you should get it fixed while it's under warranty. And yes, I *have* experienced engine breaks on my foz... cost me a few grand to fix, and worse, the loaner car was a, um, H**** (apologies for the profanity!)... but that really sucked!

 

Interesting that if I apply the brakes, the cruise control kicks out, but if the cruise control applys the brakes it, doesn't kick out. A prime example of a double standard, shows what's really in control of these cars, and it's not necessarily the driver (even without EyeSight).

Thanks @GeoJosh for pointing this out. It's taking some getting used to for me to understand and accept all this help I never asked for because I didn't know I wanted, but when I really think about it, they probably should have started doing stuff like this a long time ago, but for want of the computer power and the resistance of traditional "car enthusiasts" to accept drive-by-wire.

I agonized over the NA/XT decision for months, but went with the XT for two primary reasons, absence of throttle tip-in lurch and the enhanced control offered by the paddle shifters. I've been driving 'charged cars for 50+ years and really thought it was time to grow up, nah, not if Subaru is going to give you the extra performance for free as part of the "optional enhanced engine control package" I wanted and was willing to pay for (although grudgingly, since I'm not Canadian).

 

Interesting that if I apply the brakes, the cruise control kicks out, but if the cruise control applys the brakes it, doesn't kick out. A prime example of a double standard, shows what's really in control of these cars, and it's not necessarily the driver (even without EyeSight).

Those are two different situations.

Cruise control is using the brakes to maintain your set speed, or to slow down to match the vehicle ahead when EyeSight is equipped.

If the driver hits the brakes, it is because the vehicle is going too fast with cruise control engaged at their set speed. This cancels cruise control, because if it didn't the car would accelerate again whenever the driver let off the brakes... not good.

 

I'm definitely in the XT honeymoon phase (900 miles on it) but hope I never get over it. Nice to hear you are still happy. It's my first turbo but not my first performance vehicle. And I like those, especially one I can fit my stuff into for trips and outdoor adventure.

EJ


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I think what is overlooked in this discussion is design of CVT's chain.
In a normal gear tooth is symmetrical & works in either direction equally well.
A tooth in the CVT chain, I believe is not symmetrical & works much better in "forward" mode (this is also the reason, I believe they artificially limited the amount of torque when reversing); folks who use engine breaking a lot, I think are setting themselves up for a possible failure of the CVT chain do to wear.
This is just a thought, I hope someone with more technical knowledge will opine.

 

I think what is overlooked in this discussion is design of CVT's chain.
In a normal gear tooth is symmetrical & works in either direction equally well.
A tooth in the CVT chain, I believe is not symmetrical...

I don't believe the CVT chain has teeth, does it?

There are not teeth on the pulleys that adjust the ratio in the transmission... nothing for a toothed chain to bite. Everthing is smooth and the tension of the chain is what provides the bite.

Here is a picture of a CVT chain:

Audi

Subaru Legacy

 

no, it's not directional.

 

They do whatever it takes, in their perception, to sell the car.
It works, they are selling like hot cakes.

 

I have the paddle shifters on my 2015 Impreza Sport and I have to say I use them all the time on the hills we have here in Northwest Jersey. I am going to guess and is my opinion only, I bet with paddle shifters in hilly terrain you can probably get 5000 miles more brake life in your vehicle.

My Forester only had the "L" mode and have to say the shifters are much more effective in slowing down the vehicle when descending hills. All I do know is just tap the brakes every now and then as the lower gears do all the work of slowing down the vehicle. They are great!

I only use them for descending, but you can also use them for quick acceleration as you can stay in a lower gear longer.

The paddle shifters should be in all Subaru vehicles equipped with the CVT transmission.

 

Lord, Tony you have come over from the dark side. Personal experience is often the best teacher.

EJ


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The venerable and dearly departed 4EAT offered 3 different Automatic modes including a manual shift mode that offered superb engine breaking.

It's incomprehensible why SOA would not continue the tradition by providing paddle shifters in the the CVT NA models.

 

Test drive a 2.5 Mazda CX-5. Six speed, regular gas, nice engine response. Great handling. Too bad you can't see out the back.

EJ


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Test drive a 2.5 Mazda CX-5. Six speed, regular gas, nice engine response. Great handling. Too bad you can't see out the back.

Yup. And the fact that I really dislike the rounder curves. SUV/CUV should be boxy IMO. :wink2: Had to pass on on Honda CRV or Mazda CX-5, and especially the Nissan Rogue.

Sorry, no impact. Mine has gotten a little better over time, but the tcu change seems unrelated to it.



Check on import rules; shouldn't be too much of a problem; you need to get some letter from Subaru OA saying it meets all US requirements (the pzev model should).

Or you can hold on; wait for your waranty to expire and do the Canadian Goose operation, and add the candian bits to your vehicle. Just note, that my experience is that you do trade throb for shudder (only when cold). Though that may be calming down after 6 mo.

That's too bad the TCU change hasn't helped with the R to D delay.

I may just add the paddle shifters after the warranty expires. Will look more seriously into it when the time comes. Right now I just have to ride it out.

 

I have been enjoying my 2015 2.5i Limited with CVT and paddle shifters. Still figuring it out but managed to figure that with the cruise control engaged the CVT will slow the car down, not sure if the brakes are also coming on? We have lots of hills here in Newfoundland and the car is very nice to drive with the cruise on. I am really enjoying the paddle shifters much more than I thought I would. When not in cruise they work great on loong downhills.

 

...with the cruise control engaged the CVT will slow the car down, not sure if the brakes are also coming on?

Cruise control will use the brakes.

If you have EyeSight, you can see the brake lights illuminate on the MFD EyeSight screen (on the little car in the image). If you don't have EyeSight, you can watch for a glow out the back window at night.

 

This is probably a waste of forum space but I personally don't have any problem with my CVT on 2015 2.5.
I fact I'm very pleased with it.
I'm not a "fanboy" & generally pretty demanding to my cars.
I find that my CVT always has the right ratio for the conditions & it is a blast to drive on San Francisco hills.
I have no lurching, no delay, & the tip in seems just fine to me.
My only gripes are the odd buzzing around 1500 RPM & merely adequate acceleration when pressed.

 

A simple question:
How many different CVT vehicles have you driven? For example, have you driven all of the new Subaru models so equipped? There is a huge difference between them. If you tried them all, I suspect you would have a different opinion. As you would if you took the 2.5 CVT Forester down some of California's serious steep mountain slopes, and tried to do a long downhill with no manual controls. Not scared just thinking about it? You would be if you actually drove it. Brakes would be smoking, starting to feel significant fade, and very little engine braking available with the "L" only at your command, which one reviewer compared to the braking effect of holding your arm out the window. It's a stupidly designed transmission with one objective: improved gas mileage. But it's the programming, which could be changed, and putting paddles on it, too, as is found on every other Subaru CVT vehicle, EXCEPT the 2.5i.

EJ


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