I am considering buying a 2014 Forester 2.5i Premium (not turbo). We live in the mountains of Colorado and my minivan needs to use the brakes often going down the passes because I get very little engine braking even in 3rd gear. The Forester has only a "low" position to help on braking but on in a 45-60 mile per hour down hill speed limit section will "low" be too low and put extra strain on the transmission and/or engine? Thank you, Rick B.
CVT Transmission on down hills
REB
21 - 40 of 116 Posts
X mode can't be used >20 mph. Good for really tough slow going. I think the OP (and I am) might be describing steep descents down paved, twisting mountain roads where a safe speed might vary quite a bit and you need the ability to manually choose a ratio. "L" is almost useless in this case, which is really the place I normally want to use engine braking. I've tried it in my 2.5 and it was not a pleasant experience. Without a lot of braking you would be SOL and in the ditch on the second curve coming up. At the bottom of that mountain my brake pads were pretty smelly. I read a post from another 2.5 mountain guy that compared the slowing power of "L" to putting your hand out the window. IMO it's more effective than that but overall on a qualitative scale of 1-10 I'd give it a four. Pretty pitiful for a vehicle aimed at outdoor recreation pursuits.
EJ
Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
Makes sense. When someone says forest road I think unpaved rocky, rooty hell ride
I have a 2016 Limited. I have been thinking about this problem a lot as I do a lot of mountain driving for my weekend camping trips.
The CVT is an interesting beast. From using cruise control extensively, I can tell that it actually engine breaks to bring down your driving speed when you set it to a lower speed than your current speed. For example, if you're currently driving at 75mph, and you resume to a previously set cruise speed of 50mph, it will immediately engine break down to 50mph. That was not the case on my Camry with normal transmission. The Camry would slowly and eventually slow to 50mph due to drag, no engine breaking involved.
Anyway, so I was thinking what about using the cruise control to engine break down to a certain MPH? I haven't tried this yet, but I believe it'll work. If anyone else tries this, please post and let us know what your results are. I'll test this out for the upcoming weekend camping trip.
It does work and there are some limited circumstances where it might be useful. Trouble is where I need engine braking the most one would have to change the speed too often. Cruise control is designed for what it does best, where a manual gear/ratio selector is designed for a different task. Also, again IMO, the "L" setting works well enough on gentle to moderate slopes,,it just has very little flexibility. When I used it, I didn't like the feeling of having "nothing more" besides brakes after engaging L and still speeding up quickly, foot off the gas.
EJ
Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
Are you sure that it is ENGINE braking or is it using the friction brakes?
The only way you can really tell is if your brake lights come on. It is easy to tell at night, as you can see the rear wiper glow red when the brakes come on.
I know for a fact that my FXT uses friction brakes when cruise control slows down more than coasting would.
Edit: 3 posts deleted. No need to have more sarcastic responses than helpful responses...
Good point. Don't really know based on experience since I have only tried it during the day, and that was just to test it. If that is the case, no help with the cruise on steep downhills. Just more brake burn.
Ej
Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
@EddieJoe, I completely agree with your sentiments. I use L all the time, even during local driving to slow down the Forester at stoplights before ultimately hitting the brakes. Trying to reduce brake wear. L is definitely not enough alone. Should have at least L and 2, better if there was a 3 as well.
@GeoJosh, I'm not 100% sure. You may be right that it's friction braking. Will test in evening hours to see if it's friction braking but the feel I get when cruise control engages to slow down the Forester is the same I get when engine breaking engages when I switch to L. I think I've felt friction braking in X-Mode when the brakes suddenly engage in downhill descent mode. It's very sudden and jarring. That's why I don't believe cruise control is using friction breaking to slow down the vehicle. I believe it's using engine braking. But I don't know definitively.
If it is engine braking that exceeds what you would see if you were just coasting while in gear (let off gas on highway), the RPMs would have to increase.
Friction brakes while using cruise control would be gradual and gentle, unlike the sharp braking felt with x-mode.
hmm.. I'll do more testing. It's definitely more gradual and gentle than x-mode when using cruise control to slow down but it's more forceful than when I shift to L from D to slow down.
I'll do more testing.
@GeoJosh, do you have a link to any write up about "friction braking"? I haven't heard of this until this thread. I've known about 'engine breaking' for a while now and certainly have experienced this often on the CVT Forester.
I am using the term "Friction Brake" to help differentiate between the brake modes being discussed... normal disc brakes (what happens when you press the brake pedal) are friction brakes.
If you feel stronger deceleration than when you shift to L from D, I can almost assure you that cruise control is using the disc brakes to slow you down.
Shifting to L from D won't lunge you forward in your seat... there isn't enough torque on these small motors to provide powerful instant engine braking like you might see in a V8 vehicle.
If you feel stronger deceleration than when you shift to L from D, I can almost assure you that cruise control is using the disc brakes to slow you down.
Shifting to L from D won't lunge you forward in your seat... there isn't enough torque on these small motors to provide powerful instant engine braking like you might see in a V8 vehicle.
Hadn't thought about that, would have to be the case. Never have used CC for slowing the car down hill, anyway. FWIW, it's kind of silly to be posting about a "work around" for something that could be solved with a few dollars by SOA but hasn't been. Only guessing here, but SOA might have calculated in the 2014 Forester re-design that they were going for the more mainstream, former CRV owner in their market expansion, and that driving demographic wouldn't care about downhill braking or manual shift capability, much. Therefore, eliminating gear or ratio selection (also went from a step EAT to a CVT) would save SOA some money, and offend only a few. What made Canadians different, who knows, but there probably was a "focus group" somewhere that led to Canada getting paddles.
Based on the relatively minimal negative reaction of U.S. Forester buyers after several model years and robust sales, I'd say they made a good calculation. Interesting that in the case of the new Outback, SOA chose to "put back in" step transmission like ratio points in the CVT to simulate the feel of a traditional transmission. I've driven it, and it drives very well; it's hard to tell it's a CVT, at all. Essentially the rubber band has been banished.
EJ
On my 2014 Touring, the brake lights on the cartoon car light up when cruise control engages the brakes.
That is only on vehicles with EyeSight, which is why I didn't mention it.
So what about the Foresters with paddle shifters -- like the Canadian models? When they use paddle shifters to 'downshift' is friction braking being utilized as well? or only engine breaking? I thought it would solely be engine breaking. And likewise, I thought the cruise control would be using engine breaking solely to reduce speed to the set speed.
I do have Eyesight BTW. Does that matter in my testing?
@EddieJoe, I don't disagree with your assertion that Subaru should have offered paddle shifters or at least a 2 gear along with L, but as you've said in other threads, it doesn't change the fact that this is what we've got. I need to find ways to help me decelerate when driving downhills to save my brakes from wearing out too quickly.
Friction brakes are not used unless you press the brake pedal or cruise control must apply them to slow down when you change the target speed.
Shifting into L or downshifting with the paddle shifters will NOT use friction brakes. Any deceleration is due to engine braking.
If you have Adaptive Cruise Control set at 80 MPH and catch up to a car going 50 MPH, cruise control will apply the friction brakes. With adaptive cruise control engaged, you will see the EyeSight display screen on the MFD. When the friction brakes are applied, you will see the little car on the screen illuminate the brake lights.
Having EyeSight makes it easier to test whether the friction brakes are being used... just look at the screen.
You only have 2 options.
1. Put the transmission in Low mode rather than drive.
2. If you aren't slowing down enough, the only option is to apply the brakes via the brake pedal.
From my experience, cruise control does not use any more engine braking than you would have if you were coasting. You do feel it slow down, but that is because it is reducing the throttle application. To maintain 60 MPH on flat ground, the vehicle has to keep applying the throttle.
That is all cruise control is... automatic throttle control. If 0% throttle is still not slowing the vehicle quickly enough, the friction brakes must be applied, which cruise control will do.
@GeoJosh, you know your stuff. I just came back from dinner and tested things out a bit. You're right. The RPM did not rev up when I tried slowing down the vehicle with cruise control set to a much lower speed and the red brake lights did light up in the back. I believe you're right: it's not using engine braking but actual wheel brakes.
That sucks! L is totally not enough. I use it all the time but it's not enough when I'm descending a steep hill/mountain.
Solar:
I think you are stuck. I spent two years of 2.5 ownership looking for a solution for my issues but there wasn't any. Very much like the symptoms of grief, in the end there was acceptance. I decided as a geezer I didn't have enough good years left to drive a vehicle that gave me a daily pain. So I started looking again for a new vehicle.
Given my requirements, things haven't changed much since 2013. Almost all of the other CUV models have problems I don't want to have. One, the Mazda CX-5 2.5 has a great engine and transmission but too small and can't see out the back. The new Outback does offer a fine alternative to the Forester, but I didn't need the extra size and I found the standard 2.5 engine was too pokey for me. Smooth, great CVT, but too slow. Taking 10.5 seconds 0-60 is slow, whether it feels slow or not.
So, I traded in my 2.5 for an XT. If you do a lot of mountain travel maybe you should consider it, too. If you can find an XT Premium it's a really good deal. I couldn't, but in a bigger market or with more time you probably could. I had to drive 200 miles to get one I could afford.
EJ
Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
21 - 40 of 116 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
