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2025 - Premium - Redesigns - why?

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1.5K views 19 replies 8 participants last post by  BruceP  
#1 ·
I bought a 2025 Forester Premium. Then drove a 2024 Forester. WHY did the redesign replace easy-to-use knobs and buttons with distracting icons on the giant "i-Pad"?!
 
#2 · (Edited)
General Answer:
Automakers have discovered that 'soft buttons' (not physical) are far easier to re-program and move around on a giant screen. Future changes are a simple software change rather than re-tooling physical equipment to manufacture different dashboard and design wiring to accommodate the changes.
Since nearly EVERY device is digital (blower, heater, venting, light.... EVERYTHING) it is trivial to simply change the digital command to alter behavior.

Personal Thoughts:
  • The automakers have not discovered that managing software releases is a HUGE cost to do it properly without introducing errors and unintended side-effects. (I am retired Software Engineer;))
  • The automakers see dollar-signs by trying to charge money with every software-update they can sell.
  • I can forsee 'ease of use' suffering for several years before the automakers settle on some standards and commonality.
  • I can imagine situations where a simple failure TOTALLY disables a vehicle. (such as a blank screen, or weak battery)
  • In the meantime, we users will long for the ol' 3-knob climate control which just WORKED every time we needed it to.
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EDIT:
I thought of another reason to make the climate-controls 'soft' buttons.... With the climate-controls being digital (as opposed to manual knobs) all of them can be adjusted using an app from a phone. This may be the strongest justification to make them 'soft' controls.
 
#8 ·
several years before the automakers settle on some standards and commonality
What physical controls (climate controls, audio controls, wiper controls, etc) are standard and common across vehicles? I'm thinking of the cars I've had. Mazda, Honda, 3 Subarus and a Lexus, multiple rentals and friends' cars. None of that stuff is standard or common. I've had 3 Foresters. They have some things in common, but controls aren't one of them.
 
#6 · (Edited)
@ForesterGump73,
You did not specifically ask this of myself but I will answer nonetheless.

My wife and I LOVE the Forester Hybrid so far... but it has only been 3 days. The 'owners manual' consists of about six books and there is a LOT to learn about it. Being an Engineer, I will read the books about 3 times to assimilate all the details.

To address your comment regarding concerns of being "... the 1st year for it"
YES! I too wrestled with this quandary a good deal.

Right or wrong... this is my justification:
I have been a Subie customer for many years and have witnessed how my dealership really TRIES to to keep the customers satisfied.I can recall several situations where they stood behind the product and did what was right to keep me as a customer. (I have dealt with other automakers which did NOT do this too)

I have also seen how Subaru Of America responds to bigger issues (aka... the infamus "oil consumption" issues of the 2013 Outback --and-- with early CVT failures SOA responded with a blanket 10-year 100K warantee [noone forced them to do this] )

In the end, I am confident that Subaru REALLY WANTS their new hybrid transaxle to succeed and suspect it is WAYYYY over-engineered (designed for a LOT more torque than the 2025 Forester-engine and battery can supply)

Using the proven Toyota software and knowledge shows they applied a world-class engineering-team to develop it.

Lets not forget that, historically, Subaru transaxles have been pretty-much bulletproof. Subaru builds millions of them and they just WORK. I expect nothing less from the new hybrid transaxle.

Another thing I considered.... historically, Subaru's which are BUILT IN JAPAN have proven to be a step above than those assembled elsewhere. The 2025 hybrid is assembled in Japan .... the 2026 models will be assembled in USA.
I am CERTAIN there will be some teething-pains with the 2026 models as this gets sorted out.

-----------
Reflected against things like:
  • General Motors engines which cannot last 100K miles
  • Ford transaxles which self-destruct after 90K miles
  • Kia/Hyundai engines which actually WEAR OUT before the rest of the car does.
  • ...etc
I feel that Subaru stands out ahead of most of the competition.
 
#4 ·
#7 · (Edited)
@BruceP Every day I see at least one 20+ year old SIA-built Outback still on the road. There are many days when the only 20+ year old Forester (or any other Ota-built Subaru) I see is the one in our garage.

Then there are all those pieces of crap built by Honda in Ohio or Toyota in Kentucky with 300K and more on the clock. All vastly inferior to Japan, right?
 
#9 ·
@FozzyX3
Not really... noone suggested anything is 'vastly inferior'.

However, in the context of new production line to assemble hybrids in USA -vs- a highly-visible, critically supervised, initial production of a "must not fail" product..... yea, I still feel the 2025 hybrids may have an edge until the teething-pains are ironed-out.

I have some production-line experience and have seen times where rolling-out new technologies and processies into production does not always go as expected. Moving production from one country to another which includes different vender-suppliers, metal-casting or electronics components has its own challenges.
 
#15 ·
WHY did the redesign replace easy-to-use knobs and buttons with distracting icons on the giant "i-Pad"?!
Since you are asking for opinions, here's mine.
It's a cheaper solution to install and a money maker when it fails, is my bet. Both sides are a win for the automaker.

Manufacturers are locked into an arms race trying to make everything be like an iPhone, even though surveys say the opposite is true when no value is added. Regardless, they seem to target their cars for the younger drivers, who strangely enough largely don't want to buy cars, and many of driving age avoid getting a drivers license.

It is also a proven fact that driving distracted causes accidents. While many states outlaw using a handheld phone for talking or texting, you have to question the wisdom of putting an iPad on the dash which requires the driver to focus on the screen rather than the road.

Unfortunately, the choices are few for those who don't want to drive a computer with wheels.
 
#18 ·
@BruceP
I feel fortunate to have all of those features as they didn't come out with the omni-screen until several years later.
My car actually gets me from one place to another, and it doesn't take a crash course in network engineering for someone to take advantage of the features if they aren't familiar with the car.
Sometimes simple beats complicated.
 
#19 ·
@BruceP
I feel fortunate to have all of those features as they didn't come out with the omni-screen until several years later.
My car actually gets me from one place to another, and it doesn't take a crash course in network engineering for someone to take advantage of the features if they aren't familiar with the car.
Sometimes simple beats complicated.
TOTALLY agree.
 
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