Around pg 8-19 in your owner's manual

Refer: ('14-'18) - 2018 - Tow rating and differences...

 

The talk of "3000 lb" is probably coming from buzz specifically about the 2022+ Wilderness model, which has an added CVT oil cooler. That said, I am quite sure that the 1500 lb limitation on both of our 2017 models is a conservative limit driven mostly by Subaru's desire to minimize warranty repair costs, and the Subaru of America Marketing department's assessment that few Forester sales would be lost based on towing capacity. I have towed 1,000 lb (a rented teardrop trailer) a long ways - 10,000 miles, Seattle to Newfoundland and back - and all performance aspects of my XT were totally acceptable. Acceleration, handling stability, braking, were all only slightly affected, and still very acceptable, at all speeds and road conditions we experienced. Some degree of verification is provided by the much higher towing limits of Outback and Ascent models, which have very similar engineering to our Foresters. This leaves me thinking your most significant risk is legal - if you ever have an accident where you are at fault, while towing 3,000 lb, will your insurance company, and the trial jury, back you up? Will the police ticket you for overweight towing? The more time and distance you spend towing, the more it will be hard to get around this.

 

Wilderness also has 4.11 gears, lower range in the CVT, and stronger pulleys in the CVT - or so I've read.

 

Good point - I think though, that the "4.11 final" and the "lower range" in the CVT are just the same one thing. It would be a major engineering expense to change the minimum pulley ratio of a CVT as opposed to the final drive ratio, and I know for a fact that the Wilderness has a TR580 CVT, the same label as other 2.5L Foresters (I looked at the door jamb tag, in a showroom). I've seen (months ago) a table listing the manually-selectable ratios of the various models, and it looked to my eye that the spread between min and max is the same for all TR580s, and a different one spread for all TR690s (Forester XT, Outback XT, Ascent). I believe the TR690 happens to have a somewhat narrower pulley ratio spread, and I think that explains why my XT (TR690) cannot rev fewer than 1800 revs per mile during freeway cruising; my final drive ratio was selected for snappy takeoff and overall acceleration, at some sacrifice of MPG which many turbo buyers didn't care about as much. I grant that a 2.5L TR580 2.5L non-Wilderness Forester towing 3,000 lb won't accelerate very well, but I bet it will still work more or less.

 

@whobodym,

Perhaps, but I know both Motor Trend and Car and Driver both reported "The CVT has a lowered final drive ratio (4.11:1 vs. 3.70:1), a shorter first gear ratio, and stronger CVT pulleys, all of which improve low-end launch-torque multiplication by 13 percent. Interestingly, other Forester trims have a seven-speed mode, making the Wilderness the only variant to come with the eight-speed setup, and the shorter gearing boosts towing capacity to 3,000 pounds, twice that of other Foresters. "

I don't know if we can parse marketing-speak to figure it out, but with different pulleys and 8 "gears" it might actually have a lower "first" gear.

 

Perhaps, but I know both Motor Trend and Car and Driver both reported "The CVT has a lowered final drive ratio (4.11:1 vs. 3.70:1), a shorter first gear ratio, and stronger CVT pulleys, all of which improve low-end launch-torque multiplication by 13 percent. Interestingly, other Forester trims have a seven-speed mode, making the Wilderness the only variant to come with the eight-speed setup, and the shorter gearing boosts towing capacity to 3,000 pounds, twice that of other Foresters. "

I don't know if we can parse marketing-speak to figure it out, but with different pulleys and 8 "gears" it might actually have a lower "first" gear.

4.11 divided by 3.70 = 1.111 so almost all of that "13 percent" is the final drive. The magazine words you quote certainly mean the same to me as to you, but I don't entirely trust the writers (or the Subaru reps talking to them) to have fully understood the situation correctly. What I remember seeing was a table of the manually-selectable ratios for all the models. I then divided the max by the min, for each of them, and saw the same answer for all TR580s. And one other same answer for all TR 690s. (with exception * below) That should show the true physical limits of the pulleys. Dividing that up into 6 or 7 or 8 selectable ratios is just math coding in the computer, no mechanical engineering at all. (* the exception I remember vaguely -- there was a suggestion that the cheapest trim line didn't allow manual selection of the most extreme mechanical pulley ratio)

 

The SJ service manual list my manual Forester with a 4.44 final drive, 4.11 for the turbo models and 3.70 for the 2.5 CVT.

 

C&D lists 1st gear in the limited as 3.60 - 0.75 and the wilderness as 4.07 - 0.91. 7th in the Limited is 0.56, same as 8th in the Wilderness.

2024 Subaru Forester Review, Pricing, and Specs

With ample cargo space and a practical layout, the Forester succeeds at being a comfortable crossover, although some rivals offer more satisfying engagement.

www.caranddriver.com

 

There was a time I'd do the math, but maybe whobo will 😁, I'm still "working" in AutoCAD while following this.

1st gear in Limited is 3.601, in Wilderness it is 4.066. 7th/8th is almost identical at 0.556 and 0.559
This comes from 2022 specs, which should be a) identical to 2023, and b) totally irrelevant to the OP now that we've hijacked his thread
Sorry OP

 

Back to original topic of towing with non-wilderness.

Would it be stupid to tow say 2500lb downhill for a short distance with a non-wilderness? The one case I'm thinking of is pulling my trailer to haul firewood. The wood is all up on the mountain so the uphill drive would be with an empty trailer. Whole trip would be 1/2 mile. I'm imagining I wouldn't need that extra low gear on the downhill, and if the main difference between wilderness and base for towing is cooling the CVT, that going slow and for such a short distance the extra weight would be no problem. I'm going to research more before I actually do it. But curious what y'all think.

 

Trailer brakes are required. But what's the empty weight of trailer going up hill as that's is what will hit the CVT the hardest.

 

I'd figure that out before doing it, but definitely less than 1500lb. It's just a 8x6 metal frame with plywood floor and front/sides.

 

@dummy Since the trip is that short, why not load the trailer lighter and make 2 trips?

 

I could do more trips I just imagine with any worthwhile amount of wood the total weight will be at least above 1500lb. The 2500lb is hypothetical.

What I've been doing with my old Forester was just loading up the trunk.. and I may just keep doing that. Thinking of making a cover out of scrap pond liner and bubble wrap for the interior so nothing gets scratched.

 

The listed tow rating on US based SJ Foresters is low - for sure. In other countries/markets, the tow limits ARE higher, but some of those locales seem to have laws regarding mandatory trailer brakes whereas in the US, it's a state by state variance - some states require trailer brakes on all trailers, some may only require them on trailers weighing more than X and so on.

Is the 1500 lb weight a hard "ACTUAL" limit? Probably not. It's probably more related legal CYA to keep Subaru from lawsuits by Bob or Jan or Mike towing a 2500 lb trailer and losing control on a downhill curve and taking out a church bus.

If you're prepared for the possible financial and / or legal consequences, you can probably do it, but be aware that doing so could easily leave you liable for maintenance and possible legal costs if something does go wrong.

 

ALL, here is a website that has information about trailer brake requirements in both US and Canada. Strongly suggest you look to gain a better understanding of why Subaru chooses to go with low trailer weights in US/Canada vs other countries.

Braking System Requirements By State and Province | Hitchsource.com

Note the legend:
A - Must stop within a specified distance
B - Not stated or required
C - Supplemental brakes always required.

A and B are why Subaru has such low towing capacity!!!!!

 

bman400 - thanks, that is a great resource.

As a Canadian, I chuckle at the map at times. British Columbia has the highest threshold before trailer brakes are necessary despite the province essentially being a line of parallel mountain ranges which one has few options of avoiding when traveling west to east..

 

Reminds me of the dump truck crash at Horseshoe Bay, sad but true.

 

Helpful resource @bman400. I wonder how many people have been stopped by NY highway patrol towing with Uhaul’s to/from New England? Easy to exceed the NY 1000 lb limit.