[lubi]

The boxer engine is a little noiser than most others because of the use of mechanical tappets in place of hydraulic lifters. It is a noisier system but is simpler and generally more reliable in the long run.

"more reliable in the long run" --> but horrible in the short run!

 

[AUM]

UPDATE:

Our Forester has been in the shop since the 4th. Mostly because it was a first time thing for the dealer here and they want to be certain they do it right, which I definitely appreciate. The received the parts but have had to machine a few of the original parts to fit the new head. It's quite a complex fix as they have told me but I would rather they take their time and do it right once so we don't have to do this again. Hoping to have it back this week and will give an update on if it is fixed.

 

[lubi]

Does anyone have a copy of the full TSB for this problem? Is there any specific engine number affected?

 

[Chillout]

Does the cold start timing chain rattle come from what seems like the passenger side of the engine compartment? I have an 11' xt with under 1400 miles and I have noticed a sewing machine type noise when accelerating after just starting the car. It seems to quiet down after a bit but i definitely don't like the noise, it takes my attention away from the good engine noise that i want to hear. It has been doing it right from the start. I'm thinking about taking it in to the dealer.

Sent from my rooted HTC Thunderbolt!

 

[lubi]

Could it be this one:

02-117-11 Cylinder Head, Left Side

Service Bulletin # 02-117-11
Pages: 2
Bulletin Description: When diagnosing an engine for an unusual sound and it’s determined to be coming from the left side cylinder head area, the cylinder head, intake camshaft, intake valves and rocker arm pivots may need to be replaced. The sound could be heard at idle and increases with rpm. The best way to describe the sound is that of a sewing machine.

It seems that Subaru is trying to hide this TSB from the owners. I went to the website to see if there is any update on this issue. Even the old TSB quoted above cannot be found on their website any more. So, from now on, if you go to your dealer and complain about the noise, they simply tell you it is a DESIGN feature.

If this problem was with Toyota, there would have been a significant uproar by now and perhaps a recall. Just go and check Toyota forums. The Subaru owners seem to be more passive or less Internet savvy. Just look at the amount of activity in this thread.

 

[AUM]

It seems that Subaru is trying to hide this TSB from the owners. I went to the website to see if there is any update on this issue. Even the old TSB quoted above cannot be found on their website any more. So, from now on, if you go to your dealer and complain about the noise, they simply tell you it is a DESIGN feature.

If this problem was with Toyota, there would have been a significant uproar by now and perhaps a recall. Just go and check Toyota forums. The Subaru owners seem to be more passive or less Internet savvy. Just look at the amount of activity in this thread.

Lubi,

I took the SOA TSB into the local dealer here and they contacted Subaru of Canada and there is a TSB that is a similar fix but has a different reference number. The original TSB came out in November 2011. I had a friend look it up, but SOC has not yet posted one from my research. We should be getting ours back this week and I'll post any info that may help others out.

Also I spent close to an hour with Subaru of Canada explaining my frustration with having to do a major engine fix at only 5000kms. They said that they will stand by their technicians and their engines. We also followed up with our dealer about the issue. Same assurance as SOC. I'm glad it's being resolved under warranty and we will see over the next few years before the warranty is up if there are any issues.

 

[phill1]

It is very strange, it is seems that the problem appears only on 2.5 engines. EU 2.0 versions of this new FB engine, does not have this issues with tapping ..

 

[lfdal]

Does the cold start timing chain rattle come from what seems like the passenger side of the engine compartment? I have an 11' xt with under 1400 miles and I have noticed a sewing machine type noise when accelerating after just starting the car. It seems to quiet down after a bit but i definitely don't like the noise, it takes my attention away from the good engine noise that i want to hear. It has been doing it right from the start. I'm thinking about taking it in to the dealer.

Sent from my rooted HTC Thunderbolt!

THe XT's still use a belt, so whatever you're hearing its not a timing chain.

 

[Standardordie]

I have yet to take mine in and follow the same route as AUM. I'd like them to have a few under their belts first before I go in. I did however just get an oil change and the noise seems to be far less noticeable. We'll see how it goes. Keep us posted AUM.

 

[lubi]

Lubi,

I took the SOA TSB into the local dealer here and they contacted Subaru of Canada and there is a TSB that is a similar fix but has a different reference number. The original TSB came out in November 2011. I had a friend look it up, but SOC has not yet posted one from my research. We should be getting ours back this week and I'll post any info that may help others out.

Also I spent close to an hour with Subaru of Canada explaining my frustration with having to do a major engine fix at only 5000kms. They said that they will stand by their technicians and their engines. We also followed up with our dealer about the issue. Same assurance as SOC. I'm glad it's being resolved under warranty and we will see over the next few years before the warranty is up if there are any issues.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
Is there any specific engine number mentioned in the TSB?

 

[AUM]

lubi

I haven't seen the TSB, the senior service tech only mentioned that when he spoke to SOC that is was a similar fix to the one posted here in the forum but was referenced differently from SOA. The local service guys have been great keeping me posted and will walk me through all they did. I'll be sure to follow up when we get it back. Which is supposed to be another week or so (parts were on back order).

I am thinking of getting in touch with SOC to have them better inform Subaru dealers of this fix. We have been without our Forester for over 2 weeks because they did not receive all the parts required and it was so new to them that it involves so much more than what the TSB alludes to. We have been fortunate the dealer here has given us a courtesy car in the meantime. I do feel for the service guys in this instance becuase SOC has not done their due diligence in keeping their service people up-to-date or aware of of these things.

 

[AlleyCat]

The boxer engine is a little noiser than most others because of the use of mechanical tappets in place of hydraulic lifters. It is a noisier system but is simpler and generally more reliable in the long run.

The FB uses non moving hydraulic lash adjusters - known historically to get gummed up and noisy. The valvetrain SHOULD be quiet by design.
The EJ Uses Jam nut on the SOHC VTEC or SUB (on the dohc) which have a cold wide clearance.

 

[lfdal]

The FB uses non moving hydraulic lash adjusters - known historically to get gummed up and noisy. The valvetrain SHOULD be quiet by design.
The EJ Uses Jam nut on the SOHC VTEC or SUB (on the dohc) which have a cold wide clearance.

With the hydraulic lash adjusters, do you suppose that's another reason they're insisting on 0w-20?

 

[Jericho187]

Alright everyone. I got my hands on that TSB. Here it is:

Introduction
It has been over six months since the next generation Subaru Boxer engine was introduced in the 2011 Forester and during this time, we have monitored all QMR and Techline reports involving the FB engine.
To date, there have been two separate issues involving engine rattle noises:
The first reported noise was a 2-3 second rattle upon cold start up. This issue was quickly isolated to the timing chain tensioner, and you can refer to SB.02.07.10 if you come across this problem.
The latest engine rattle noise to be reported from the field is a constant noise between 2000 to 3000rpm. This noise has been isolated to an issue with the rocker arm pivots hitting on the left hand intake camshaft.
This was an isolated issue, but FHI has made revisions to the affected parts. Only engines before Serial number 0055030 are affected. If you do come across this complaint, verify the Engine serial number and, if applicable replace the following parts:
LH Cylinder head, LH intake camshaft, LH Intake valves (4) & Rocker arm pivots (4)
Description
Part Number
C/M Lot Number
Head Assy-Cyl LH
11063AB651
L1022
Camshaft CP-Int LH
13037AA802
38B192
Intake Valve
13201AA620
I21
Pivot-Rocker Arm
13296AA050
None
Please refer to the proper service manual for working procedure. ME(H4DO)-196
If you experience an engine noise not related to the preceding two causes, refer to the table in the Mechanical Section of the service manual for diagnostics. Section ME(H4DO)-325. Please also continue submitting QMR’s.
Subaru Canada, Inc.
Kevin Sue, Coordinator: Technical Information

 

[Jericho187]

Here is the TSB relating to the rattle on cold start up:

Introduction
On early production 2011 Foresters, the new chain driven FB engine may have a slight chatter noise upon start up. This chattering noise is most noticeable on cold starts, and may last for a few seconds before going away.
The noise can be attributed to the timing chain tensioner on the left bank of the engine. The tensioner, which is oil driven, has an internal check ball that may not be seated properly. This can lead to oil leaking out and creating some slack with the chain tension; Oil pressure on startup tightens up the tensioner. The chain tensioner on the right bank sits upwards, and does not exhibit this condition.

 

[AlleyCat]

With the hydraulic lash adjusters, do you suppose that's another reason they're insisting on 0w-20?

The lash adjusters can be designed to a specific bleed-down rate (GM has done this) considerig the hot oil weight, but recall oil is way, WAY over a hot SAE 50 weight for a quite while after a cold start. Hydraulic VVT cam phasing can be touchy depending on the design but should work fine with just a minor repositioning of the torque curve "boost" in operation running within a range of hot viscosity of 7-11. Again, cold oil viscosity ranges from 10,000+ honey to about 50 cSt - so there is no issue hurting your engine running a Proper SAE 30 multigrade oil other than sacrificing 1-2 mpg during cold short trips. What you absolutely loose with a near non-viscous lubricant is a safe margin of operation on shock loading and engine overrun with fully warmed and stressed oil.

When you pour that room temp 0w20 into the funnel during an oil change and say to yourself, "Wow, that oil is THIN!", recall the 0w20 oil at room temp (say 70 degrees F ) would likely measure 70-100 cSt -which is well beyond the viscosity of any 212 deg F. HOT SAE 50. A Multigrade 30 is water thin at operating temp too - it cannot be "too thick" for proper engine operation.

 

[J x]

Alright everyone. I got my hands on that TSB. Here it is:

Big thanks for sharing this. Looks like I'm not affected with engine 60696.

 

[Jericho187]

Big thanks for sharing this. Looks like I'm not affected with engine 60696.

No problem, I have the official PDF versions too if anyone wants it. By the way anyone who needs anything off the Subaru Tech database, I have a 3 day subscription so post in my other thread or PM me and I will try to get it for you.

By the way, where do you find your engine serial number?

 

[J x]

No problem, I have the official PDF versions too if anyone wants it. By the way anyone who needs anything off the Subaru Tech database, I have a 3 day subscription so post in my other thread or PM me and I will try to get it for you.

By the way, where do you find your engine serial number?

I think I found the number stamped on the front or top of the engine somewhere (maybe on a plate). I can't remember exactly where. I have it written in a spreadsheet in this format:

FB25BAYAXB-00xxxx, 0060696 CC 1xxxx

I assumed the 0060696 was the engine serial as it was the only 7 digit number I could find starting with 00. I could be wrong though. My car was manufactured in Jan 2011 I believe...purchased in March 2011.

 

[J x]

I'm starting to think I may be wrong. According to this page:

2011 Subaru VIN vehicle identification number

The last 5 digits of the VIN indicates the sequence of production. Maybe this is the number that should be used. The Toyota TSB's which I am use to always include the entire VIN sequence.