[pitrack_1]

Must confess I've been lazy and not tested tvilleguy's newer PID list yet. :icon_rolleyes:

In the meantime I've had a week off so took my daughter out for a camping trip to Newnes (Wolgan Valley) near Lithgow NSW for a couple of days thence down to Sydney. Back home now and pleased to report the car ran properly, put about 1000km on it. Even the regen or two or three kept out of my way and I was able to give it some stick up the Wolgan pass. Fuel economy was good, no shudders, no gearshift misbehaviour, A/C worked well in quite warm conditions.

 

[pitrack_1]

Merry Christmas...and Grrr!

Merry Christmas and Happy New y=Year to all. May the holiday season bring you a safe and happy time.

A few things:

1) I've long suspected this, I wonder if the car undergoes some testing/relearning the check out the fuel each time you fill up. Makes sense to me for it to measure so it can cope with differing fuel qualities. Also, more often than not the vehicle regens on the trip home from the fuel station.

2) I wonder if there are differing types of "soot". In my case I've imagined a "hard" soot which is difficult to burn off and a "soft" soot which is easy. This is simply an imagining based on the way regens seem to proceed under seemingly similar conditions, sometimes regens reduce the soot quickly, sometimes slowly. Sometimes they go down to 20-30%, sometimes to 0. Sometimes they come back quickly, sometimes quickly to a certain range then slowly thereafter, sometimes not.

I simply imagine the "soft" soot to be poorly adhered and, well, "sooty" and easily removed. the "hard" soot is properly deposited in a resilient layer bound the the filter matrix and therefore more resilient to burning off. Think of it like the ifference between wood chips/sawdust and a solid piece of hardwood. Even worse I could imagine an incomplete/improper regen converting the soft material to hard, bit like glazing friction surfaces. If you had just "soft" soot it would burn off and reappear quickly, whereas "hard" soot would be difficult to remove but reappear slowly. You'd find "soft" soot being deposited and removed all the time with perhaps a "hard" layer building up more slowly, and being more resilient to removal it would gradually reduce the soot capacity of the DPF, leading to increasing number and reduced distance between regens.

All this is pure speculation (worse, imagination!) of course!

But the speculation has come about because after returning from Lithgow/Newnes:

a) My wife drove it around town on short trips, as per normal (for her).
b) I fuelled it at a different supplier to the previous tank and it regenned on the way home. So I took it for a drive until the cycle completed.
c) Morning of 24th stated up and drove, with a light load, and logging, from Canberra to Sydney under freeway conditions. It was warm and humid, between 22-27C. First thing I noticed was the EGT/DPF T sitting above 400C (<65% soot). It then climbed very quickly past 65%, reaching >70% (close to 75%) before it initiated the first freeway regen. The vehicle regenned 3 or 4 times in 200km, under freeway conditions (6th at ~2150-2200rpm). This also drove the oil dilution from ~8.5% to ~9.4%. On the 3/4th regen, having shouted at it substantially and having the real sh*ts with it I decided to
i) Clear of traffic at 100km/h redline it a couple of times by declutching and flooring the throttle for 5 secs or so
ii) run it in 4th at somewhere between 3000-3500rpm at 110km/h for several minutes.
d) It then finished the regen, the temp dropped and the soot % with it to 0. It then came back rather quickly as before, but then last I saw got stuck around 55% within 50km from the regen. It has been 200+km and I don't think it has regenned. The only other thing that has changed is: descended into the Sydney basin and started running around Sydney.

So the prompt for my speculation above is the seeming improvement after the 4th or so abusive regen. I wonder if either
a) The "hard" soot has been gotten rid of allowing more "soft"" or other "normal" soot to accumulate
b) The redlining/running in 4th "blew" soot or other obstructive material out
c) The last regen was more complete for some reason (maybe my 'treatment'
d) It required 3-4 regens to properly get rid of soot from perhaps incomplete regens (or bad urban running).
e) It takes time for the vehicle to relearn to cope with a different fuel quality.
f) THere's some intermittent or other fault.

Of course the aim was drive it from Sydney to Brisbane to visit friends from Boxing Day until the New Year. Suffice to say it's not in a condition to trust it to do so and the oil dilution light is almost certain to come on anyway.

It's a measure of the lack of trust I have in the vehicle that I have a solution at hand: take the second vehicle driven to Sydney by my wife for this very reason!

 

[pitrack_1]

It's been warm...

If anything could give a car reason to misbehave, sitting on 110km/h in the following conditions could be it...

...and in this case it didn't. One regen CNB to SYD (this time). A/C well able to cope.

And yes that is almost 5pm, and it reads perhaps +2C so actually 43C.

It's testament to modern cars that I didn't see one car with its bonnet up by the freeway in these conditions. Some things are better than the used to be!

 

[pitrack_1]

Dr Jeckyll/Mr Hyde, etc...

Well after the run up the freeway (had to reset the oil dilution myself first- can confirm the manual method works on my vehicle) in hot temps it went in for service. Used another mechanic who does Subaru deisels. Turns pout he needed to do a longer than usual initiated regen for some reason.

After collecting the car I was coming out of the local shopping centre and the A/C started making those ominous noises (groaing/roaring compressor, hissing of gas through the valves with rapid cut ons/offs) . So drove straight to the A/C shop- they instantly remember the car from Dec 2015!
Of course they couldn't see any issue and the noises had quietened downby then. However I have the car in for a regas tomorrow anyway so we'll see how it goes.

 

[pitrack_1]

Turbo pipe exploded

I think the words used by the NRMA road service were "totally shattered". I wasn't driving so I don't know which one but she reported he had a hard time getting to it under the car to find it.

Anyway she kept driving it today, it died and was towed (they did say it was OK to drive home). I just hope a $500 repair hasn't turned into $5000 or worse.

Warnings were given. I'm not listened to, there's not much I can do. *Shrug*

 

[svkforester]

I'm owner of the Subaru Forester diesel MY14, and my experience with DPF is that the distance between regenerations strongly depends on ambient temperature. When the ambient temperature is below 0 Celsius, freezing, I have no problem to reach around 900-1200km between regenerations. Even if I do city driving only the distance "shorten" to around 500km between regenerations. But as soon as ambient temperature rises above 0 Celsius, the distance between regenerations starts decreasing quite dramatically. In case when ambient temperature is around 20 Celsius or more, distance can drop to 50km at city driving conditions. I think that something is not properly temperature compensated. I also monitor DPF differential pressure and I didn't see difference in values between winter /summer time. So it should be something else. Fuel quality is not that big issue as this temperature dependency, but I use mostly premium grade of diesel and only well known brands like SHELL, OMV,... I'm not sure whether there is anything we can do, probably not. Also I can't imagine that the engine produces much more soot at summer then at winter. I think that only Subaru can fix it, but the question is if they want. And for sure it is pretty annoying at summer time...

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[pitrack_1]

Anyway she kept driving it today, it died and was towed (they did say it was OK to drive home). I just hope a $500 repair hasn't turned into $5000 or worse.

Warnings were given. I'm not listened to, there's not much I can do. *Shrug*

Mechanic is currently trying to source a 2nd hand DPF.

 

[svkforester]

Mechanic is currently trying to source a 2nd hand DPF.

Hmm hope you can find 2nd hand DPF in good condition. Price of the new one is pretty high, here in Europe it costs around 3000€. How much kilometres did you take until DPF died? In Europe we have some companies which cleans DPF, and to me it looks like an alternative to the 2nd hand option. May be worth considering it. From my research company Advanpure looks promising, but I haven't any experience with them.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[pitrack_1]

Thanks svkforester.

In this case to be fair although the car initiated the issue, it was driven (literally) to completion.

I'm aware there are other options but I have no influence in this situation.

 

[svkforester]

Hmm I'm afraid that my DPF is not far from dying... yesterday evening I made a full regen, it goes down to the 0, but today after 3 short drives I have back 36% It is pretty terrible... I have around 70000 km.

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[charliehorse]

DPF

Hi All and big thanks to Pitrack for the Torque Pro dashboard.
I recently got a steady DPF light that went out and returned
as the dreaded flashing one without giving me a chance to get to the motorway. She a 2011.
Took it to the dealers and asked for a forced regen.
Not sure if they did that but told me they they could not get
the temp up high enough to get it to regen.
Soot was 190% when it went in and 59% now. Light still flashing.
I pulled up up the road and reconnected the dongle and gave it a run
up the motorway with a cane to its butt.
I got the DPF temp up to 600c which should be hot enough.
The dealer recommended getting the DPF cleaned as he thought it was clogged.
Would this make sense seeing its reading 59%?
Cost would be around €700. 140k klms on her now.
Playing with the idea of trading for a new Forester because
I can't get a low klm used one here or might jump ship.
Do the later ones give DPF trouble?

 

[pitrack_1]

Hi charliehorse,

I'm glad the dash has been of assistance!

Anecdotally the new foresters seem to give less trouble, at least by the number of posts here. But I don't use Farcebook, perhaps most have moved there!

Any vehicle with a DPF can give DPF trouble if conditions aren't right.

The soot level is calculated/inferred/approximated from the pressure differential across the DPF so if it can't get lower it's quite possible clogged/ashed up. A clean or replacement core or replacement one may be worthwhile, but the ECU will need to be recalibrated to it (I believe). You could try one of the DPF cleaner additives yourself?

 

[charliehorse]

Hi Pitrack and thanks for your reply.
I have a couple of cans of Wurth PDF cleaner
if I can figure out which hole to squirt it through.
Might be a good idea to give it a take off and clean at 140k.
Going for a second opinion on Friday so will keep you posted.

 

[svkforester]

Hello everybody,
could you post the numbers of how much km you drove till you experience serious DPF issues? I just like to know how far I get actually with mine. Maybe it could be interesting for others too. I know that it also depends on how/where the car is mostly used, but it can give me/us an overview.

I have 68k km, 27% of cumulative ash ratio, 99 completed regens, 134 regen attempts. Car is used in mixed conditions 35% city, 35 highway, 30% country roads.
Data are gathered via Torque Pro.

Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[pitrack_1]

It'd be hilarious...

...if it wasn't so expensive.

Apparently the soot level was 255% (max for an 8 bit integer if I remember correctly). They said they'd never seen one so high before. They tried cleaning it with the fluid, it didn't work or at least not enough to bring it down to a level where it could be retrieved.

My reading of the situation is the car was driven until the exhaust system was physically blocked (banana in the tailpipe syndrome).

Cost of DPF (they said) was approx $1000-$1200 (I think), total cost of repair $2200 (or thereabouts). The DPF is aftermarket. At that price I thnk I'm lucky and should be grateful. They said they had to do some work to get the second DPF sensor to fit.

The aftermarket service agent has been very good about this.

I haven't read out the parameters to see if they've reset the ash level or regen count or recalibrated the DPF soot level vs pressure.

For charliehorse: I mentioned your issue to them, they said at 58 % it should regen, to try the fluid and if it won't come down you've probably heading down the replacement DPF road. With an aftermarket DPF replacement costing somewhere around $AUD1200-1500 and $AUD1.5 = $1Euro it'd be cheaper for you to get buy one here and ship it over!

For svkforester: Note this DPF was murdered, it did not die of natural causes/old age. Our completed regen count was (probably) 400, last time I looked it was 350+ (I think) with multiple non-completed ones (outr model doesn't read out that parameter as far as I know). The Ash level was 69% but the dealer had said they'd see it over 100% no problems and DPFs only die when something goes wrong (no regens or other problems). We're at >160,000km. If things run correctly, clean oil changed regularly with good fuel and nothing major goes wrong the DPF should be a life-of-vehicle proposition, or close to it. I'd guess towards 400,000km. Certainly heard of 'em >200,000km with no DPF replacement.

 

[charliehorse]

Thanks for asking Pitrack.
I am going to another mechanic today so we will see.
He was able to force a regen for me last time so here's hoping.
It was around 200% last week but after the trip to the dealers, it was 58%
As far as I know if the light is flashing, it will not regen itself.
I did try it up the motorway and got it up to 600c but no go.

 

[charliehorse]

Ok, looks like the DPF is badly blocked.
Dealer is going to send it for cleaning and says the vast majority
do clean up and regen after. May need an injector if that is what was causing the trouble.
Got a replacement loan Forester and it reminds me what my one was like when I got it first.
My own one seems to have slowly got sluggish without me realising as it was gradual.
Have heard injectors are expensive and are the sealed type so no recon.
Will know around Thursday...

 

[dpm]

Subaru's own injector cleaner is pretty impressive stuff- I'd recommend a bottle (even @ the £60 or so it'll cost)
Put the flow and return hoses straight into the bottle and let the engine idle for about half the bottle, then tip the rest into the tank.

 

[charliehorse]

Black is Back

OK, Good outcome.
Dealer removed and sent the DPF for cleaning to Shannon
where they have a big DPF dishwasher.
Refitted and reset ECU, calibrated injectors and updated any firmware.
Total cost was €620 inc VAT which I can claim back.
Seeing its the second repair I have had to pay for in four years it's not so bad.
First was the same flashing light that responded to a forced regen.
Have to say I would recommend Slattery's Garage in Puckane, Co. Tipperary.
They gave me a bottle of stuff for €18 that he said was excellent for
cleaning injectors and DPF. Hope attached photo shows.
They gave me a loan Forester too so fair dues to them.
Forester is running like a swiss watch again.
Only saw how bad my own was running when I started to drive the loan car...
Anyway, Im in love again.
Don't know if that photo attached but this is the stuff,
Tunap 184 Diesel Particle Filter Treatment | eBay

 

[pitrack_1]

OK, Good outcome.
Dealer removed and sent the DPF for cleaning to Shannon
where they have a big DPF dishwasher.
Refitted and reset ECU, calibrated injectors and updated any firmware.
Total cost was €620 inc VAT which I can claim back.
...

Good to hear you had a 'win', charliehorse!