Cool factor / 3 year lease only goes to:
The Defender hands down.

Long term reliability and purchase goes to:
The Toyota


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You're disappointed in Subaru quality and you're considering a Land Rover? Land Rover consistently falls at or very near the bottom bottom of Consumer Reports reliability rankings of over 30 auto brands. You might want to wait and see what the 2022 Forester Wilderness edition has to offer. Otherwise my vote is for the RAV4 TRD edition.

 

Thanks for the heads up! didnt know that Land Rover had such issues. dint know about the 2022 Forester Wilderness edition either!

 

@GeoSol,
Is this a serious post? You have issue with Subaru quality and you have a LR on you list as a choice?

Bronco is a very different vehicle, better look into a lot more. I have a reservation for one.On the forums there a large group of whiny idiots that think they're buying a cool retro looking SUV and have no clue about it's purpose. Constantly complain about not getting the same feature as other unibody road class SUVs.

If you want something that has some offroad chops, you could look at a Bronco Sport Badlands. Don't confuse the sport and the bronco- two completely different vehicles.

If you don't have a reservation, you're not getting one until some time in 22 and it'll have ADM on it for sure. You're realistically looking at 23 if you don't want to overpay.

Santa Fe- it's a Hyundai. Enough said.

 

@GeoSol,
Is this a serious post? You have issue with Subaru quality and you have a LR on you list as a choice?

Bronco is a very different vehicle, better look into a lot more. I have a reservation for one.On the forums there a large group of whiny idiots that think they're buying a cool retro looking SUV and have no clue about it's purpose. Constantly complain about not getting the same feature as other unibody road class SUVs.

If you want something that has some offroad chops, you could look at a Bronco Sport Badlands. Don't confuse the sport and the bronco- two completely different vehicles.

If you don't have a reservation, you're not getting one until some time in 22 and it'll have ADM on it for sure. You're realistically looking at 23 if you don't want to overpay.

Santa Fe- it's a Hyundai. Enough said.

I have a reservation on a Bronco, I’m looking at it as a bigger roomier version of the Wrangler TJ generation which I had three of.
I plan to use it as a daily driver on the freeway which probably is t the greatest idea, but what are people whining about?

 

I would have to disagree with your assessment of subaru quality/ruggedness. But I also understand the desire to change brands...especially if you do not "need" the best AWD system. I would get on a forum for vehicles you are considering and then based on coments test drive each. That way you will be able to evaluate the comments you get.

One thing I did...I own an '18 Forester and '19 crosstrek. I got the extended warranty and will get rid of the vehicle when the waranty is done. Not everyone has the financial ability to do that though.

 

How do you like the Crosstrek vs. the Forester? My '14 Forester loses a quart of oil between changes. No real problems, though, aside from the keys don't unlock the door.

The problem is a lack of understanding. People use their sample size of one to make a generalization across an entire brands. Most adults understand that's not how it works.

Sick they might have gotten a lemon, but anything that is built on an assemble line is prone to have issues, now take something that is made from 1000's of items made on assemble lines and the chances increase.

Every Manufacturer has lemons.

It's really just stupid. You'll find the same posts on any other manufacturers forums.

Not that stupid. Your experience always trumps what everyone else says. Usually only takes one lemon to sour you on a brand for a while, if not for life. I have owned one Forester, without any issues. However, it goes through a quart of oil between changes, something none of my other Nissans, Hondas, or Toyotas have ever done. They have all been quite reliable, for the most part. My wife loves her Forester, but I'm not that impressed. Just the console layout and such. Has had a couple recalls, but they've dealt with it. Not that much different than other brands, but not clearly superior, either, that I can tell. But we don't take it off road or really abuse it, so maybe I'm just missing all the benefits. One irritant is the two or three pieces of Subaru junk mail I get every week.

 

If your ideal timeline to get a new vehicle is during 2021, the big Bronco is a long shot. First deliveries for current reservation holders has already been pushed to 'summer' from 'spring' of 2021, so finding one with the trim and packages you want AFTER all 200,000+ reservations are delivered is a loooong shot before 2022 IMO. Ya not all 200K will actually buy one, but it will still take time before dealers get unspoken for inventory.

Bronco Sport is another story, and is a pretty direct Foz replacement in regards to size. They are trickling into dealerships right now. Its the first year of both Broncos also, while they have basis in other Ford vehicles.... it will be a buggy first release based on Ford's previous performances.

For me, a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid is what I would buy if I needed to replace my Foz in a hurry, excellent MPG, actually slightly higher tow rating (+250lbs), and I think the batteries have 100,000k warranty now. Sound like you are considering a size and capability upgrade as well, have fun shopping!

 

well prolly 22 as you said, due to the high demand and prices will be at least full retail... Bronco Sport definitely not in my list, looking at the Badlands...

 

Had the ups and downs with my 14 XT Touring , was a love hate relationship. Dealership(Rafferty Subaru) servicing was the worst.

I've been using Rafferty since 2015 (switched from the dealer where we bought the car) and have been very happy with their service department. What issues did you have?

I play the "if I had to replace my Forester, what would I pick?" game frequently. It's just a game, because I'm very happy with our 2015 2.5i Premium, enough so that we invested more than $1k last year to replace the infotainment system and speakers.

I care about reliability, utility, comfort, safety and outward visibility. Not about high-performance or sporty handling. So with that in mind I'd probably look at a CX-5 again. I say "again" because it was on our shortlist in 2014 when we bought our Forester, and we passed on it mostly because it seemed cramped and claustrophobic inside. But the current version, which I've sat in but not driven, is a little looser. And a smaller human might not have had an issue with either version. I've owned two Mazdas in the past, and both were great cars. (I've also owned two Toyotas, and likewise.)

CX-5's rep is as a reliable car that performs well and is fun to drive. Not as utilitarian as I'd like, but still a practical vehicle for many.

 

I've been using Rafferty since 2015 (switched from the dealer where we bought the car) and have been very happy with their service department. What issues did you have?

I play the "if I had to replace my Forester, what would I pick?" game frequently. It's just a game, because I'm very happy with our 2015 2.5i Premium, enough so that we invested more than $1k last year to replace the infotainment system and speakers.
I also like the reliability of the Forester. I call it an honest car. It does not remind me of a scam game from marketers and auto corporations. I believe that in any business there should be honesty. I could even find an online casino at https://gamblebeaver.com/best-payout-online-casinos/ with fair rules. They guarantee fair and timely payments and at the same time they have a very small financial entry threshold for online games. Therefore, if the creators of gambling games offer us fair conditions, then representatives of a Japanese brand with a long history should not be worse. Therefore, if we imagine such a situation and play such a game, I can’t even immediately say which option I would like to change my Forester to.

I care about reliability, utility, comfort, safety and outward visibility. Not about high-performance or sporty handling. So with that in mind I'd probably look at a CX-5 again. I say "again" because it was on our shortlist in 2014 when we bought our Forester, and we passed on it mostly because it seemed cramped and claustrophobic inside. But the current version, which I've sat in but not driven, is a little looser. And a smaller human might not have had an issue with either version. I've owned two Mazdas in the past, and both were great cars. (I've also owned two Toyotas, and likewise.)

CX-5's rep is as a reliable car that performs well and is fun to drive. Not as utilitarian as I'd like, but still a practical vehicle for many.

If I played a game where I wanted to replace my Subaru, I would still choose Some kind of pickup truck with a lot of space and a powerful engine.

 

So we actually have a 2020 cx5 and a 2021 Forester. Cx5 is the significant others. Excellent car! So fun to drive. Very high quality interior. Good value. And even though its still new, I dont expect any reliability issues. I would recommend the cx5 as well as long as you don’t need a lot of cargo space. Thats pretty much the only downside imo. Its really small in there. We have two large dogs and they dont do so well with the seats folded flat. Both their heads rub the ceiling. But thats what Mazda was going for. It has a very sporty and compact feeling.

Of the list you have,Id be most excited about the Bronco. Comes in a manual and a 4cyl turbo. Sounds fun to drive and should get decent mpg.

 

I agree. I have no problems with my wife's 2019 Forester. 100% reliable. My issue was with the dealer (Gerald) sales tactics, so I purchased my 2020 Outback at a different dealer (Grand). Big difference in dealer practices.
My short list included the Mazda Cx5, so I think you should test drive one of those.
Your short list includes the Toyota RAV4. Those are pretty reliable.
Your list includes Hyundai Santa Fe. No one beats the warranty, so I would also look at it.
The others on your list will disappoint you.
For me, I have no reason to leave Subaru.

 

Check out TFLcars on Youtube. On their 3rd Defender.

 

I was looking at the Bronco as well, but it’s just too big and although has much versatility, it’s not very practical day to day.

go see all options ... get a feel. You should know in your gut what is a right for you.

I’m switching platforms and moving to a VW, as I really love the progress they have made. I can’t wait

 

Had a 19 Rav4 Hybrid for about a year, LE model. Although there are filling issues with that year I had none. No issues ran like a charm, but be advised-while on backroads and highway combined in July in NE, I averaged 55 mpg in Eco mode, when temps fell in October I get high 30's.
Aside from that it never had any issues, was easy to drive, I kept collision detection on but lane assist off and it drove very smooth. Added Blizzak DM-V2 tires for Jan-April, got thru all snow and ice confidently; small engine warms up fast! I wanted the XLE but settled. If I did it over I would wait and spec it higher for more creature comforts. Also had a 2014 Tundra and as first two Yota's very happy with them.

 

*Comments on LR reliability are warranted and hence my “3 year lease only” notation.
But that being said I have a 19’ F Pace with 22k miles on it and not a stitch of trouble. Not one.
And that way that Jaguar drives !
One more year on its lease then maybe a Ghibli.
Talk about over priced crap with a $100k exhaust note! Lol
But on your list, my opinion, if you want the best chance at long term reliability in a buy and hold till the wheels off, get the car endorsed by the Taliban, Toyota. I seriously doubt they follow regular oil changes in that hell hole. Lol


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I've had a 2016 Mazda 3 2.5 for 5+ years or so, and it has been reliable as can be. The rear brake pads wore out before the fronts, which was a little weird, but at 40k miles or so, so not like something failed. Very impressed with this car overall.

I would definitely check out the CX-5, perhaps with turbo.

 

I wouldn't touch a land rover unless its a lease. Even with a lease how many cumulative months do you wanna have your car in the shop over the course of the lease. Watch TFLCars. Their first one lasted 500 miles.

Broncos are really cool, reliability isn't gonna be great on a first year but I don't expect it will be horrific.

If your considering the santa fe, I'd check out the passport or new kia sorento too, but it depends what your use case is.

Rav4s you can't go wrong but you can't go right.

 

Your list is a bit confusing. What do you want to use your vehicle for? From your list it seems like a bit of offroad/trails maybe but its not clear.

Lets start with the Bronco:
It is definitely a classic off-roader but will probably be similar to a jeep on road. The base 4 door which I assume you will choose is $35k but the price inflates quick with models. Which isn't bad but like others have said will probably not be available till 2022.

Santa fe:
$28k for awd but only 7.3 inches of ground clearance. The awd system seems fine and the tech is decent.

Defender:
.....While I like it and it is very capable, reliability seems not great already and supply chain issues seem to exist with getting parts. Also....$60k....

Rav4:
Has 8.6inch of ground clearance for the adventure model and the awd is good. Its $33k for the adventure. The TRD has skid plates for $36k

Bronco Sport?:
7.8inch of ground clearance for the base model for $27k. 8.8inch of ground clearance and more advanced awd, and skid plates for the badlands (offroad model) for $34.5k. I have sat in it and the rear leg room is bad.

If you want to spend under $30k, I think the forester is the champ. if you want to spend $30-36k, the Rav4 and Bronco sport seem good. If you want to spend over $37k, the Bronco seems good but we just don't know yet. If you want to spend more then go for the Defender. But also note that that Jeep is pretty competitive at these prices and what you get. There is also nice offerings such as the Telluride and 4runner to consider.

 

Your list is a bit confusing. What do you want to use your vehicle for? From your list it seems like a bit of offroad/trails maybe but its not clear.

Lets start with the Bronco:
It is definitely a classic off-roader but will probably be similar to a jeep on road. The base 4 door which I assume you will choose is $35k but the price inflates quick with models. Which isn't bad but like others have said will probably not be available till 2022.

Santa fe:
$28k for awd but only 7.3 inches of ground clearance. The awd system seems fine and the tech is decent.

Defender:
.....While I like it and it is very capable, reliability seems not great already and supply chain issues seem to exist with getting parts. Also....$60k....

Rav4:
Has 8.6inch of ground clearance for the adventure model and the awd is good. Its $33k for the adventure. The TRD has skid plates for $36k

Bronco Sport?:
7.8inch of ground clearance for the base model for $27k. 8.8inch of ground clearance and more advanced awd, and skid plates for the badlands (offroad model) for $34.5k. I have sat in it and the rear leg room is bad.

If you want to spend under $30k, I think the forester is the champ. if you want to spend $30-36k, the Rav4 and Bronco sport seem good. If you want to spend over $37k, the Bronco seems good but we just don't know yet. If you want to spend more then go for the Defender. But also note that that Jeep is pretty competitive at these prices and what you get. There is also nice offerings such as the Telluride and 4runner to consider.

Hey mattmers, I want a vehicle for every day driving and can take off road, I dont off road very much except maybe hunting season or camping. I dont need a off roader monster!

 

A year ago when I was car shopping I was very interested in the 2019 RAV4. I went to my local dealership to check them out. I could not believe how loud the engine was. I did a little research online and discovered that consumers were complaining about loud engine noise. The reviews I read were pretty bad. The noise problem was not corrected for the 2020 model, I haven't researched the 2021 model. Be sure to research this issue before making a purchase.

 

and a couple of others from the cars in consideration. The big surprise to me was Nissan Qashqai, especially when compared to the Kicks.

In defense of Toyota, they updated their software and the 2020 edition passes. Forester passed but did not do as well as I thought it might, and the driver makes a difference.

 

Just watched this and was a bit surprised at the Subaru's results.

The new Rogue or Nissan X trail might be a consideration as well.

 

@GeoSol
As some mentioned, if reliability is important to you, I would check Mazda CX-5... For me and my family it was half size too small, otherwise great vehicle for what it is.

Additionally, I will comment only on Land Rover...
Many mentioned LR poor reliability rating but more then that, I think you should be aware that servicing LR would be way more complicated and expensive even if your LR happens to be trouble free.
My best friend and his wife drive Land Rovers (they always get them new, Discovery and Discovery Sport) so we often compare experience and cost.
Both are decently reliable, nothing crazy but you get the same "treatment" from the dealer for $40k Discovery Sport and $80k Discovery... So Discovery Sport purchasing price wasn't that much higher then my 2015 XT (it is much nicer looking vehicle with lower performance vs XT) but dealer is trying to upcharge them at every visit and quoted amounts are crazy when you consider purchasing price of the vehicle. While my dealer will try to sell my "engine cleaner" at every visit (for like $150), claiming that is Subaru requirement, they will tell me that my both air filters are dirty (that I changed few days ago) and I need brake fluid flush ASAP because my breaking fluid is dark and it is safety hazard (and they already changed it 6months/3k miles ago). All this things are annoying but we are talking about general dishonesty, all those things are not expensive and you just need to be prepared to decline everything. And I have 4-5 Subaru dealers relatively close...

But with LR, they are on the whole different level, every regular visit with 0-3 years old vehicles becomes a struggle to decline unnecessary stuff in tune of $2k or so, with the same dishonesty and more pressure because of your "premium" experience.

If you didn't like your Subaru dealer, check you local LR dealer first.

 

@Quadraria10

Simple solution - Fit an ARB offroad bumper and go through the moose. No rollover risk and you get to fill the freezer

I'm a Brit and even we don't buy Land Rovers !

Surely the Toyota 4Runner would be a fairer comparison vs the Land Rover? In which case I would go with the 4Runner with the fancy TRD offroad stuff all day long if you're going offroad.

If you're staying on road, a Rav4 Prime on paper is hard to beat; performance, mpg and reliability.

If you want to rule the elk test, look at the Volvo XC90 (Or XC60?), which outperforms each vehicle @Quadraria10 linked

 

I'm a Brit and even we don't buy Land Rovers !

Had a RR a long time ago and it developed a gear box leak to which the service manager said "Well, what do you expect, it's a truck"

 

@rdclark

3 times I went in for electrical issues with head unit and every time i would get the stink eye!! They charged me for an oxygen sensor when it was under warranty and wanted $2K to change my control arm bushings at 55K!!! I was like waaaaat!! why did they fail prematurely? Called Subaru USA and they called them to give me my $$ back for the oxygen sensor, which they said was under warranty.
Supposedly its easier for them to replace the arms than just the bushings.
Subaru, after lengthy debate, picked up the cost of the control arms. Nice of them... BTW, I went to Concordville Subaru to get them fixed.
Back to dealer to get my refund, no apology nothing!! "we are only human, we make mistakes" the only reply i got back!

I just had enough of these games!!!

Forgot to mention, I didn't buy the car from Rafferty, maybe that's why I had issues.

 

Good topic!! To replace my first and last Subaru I was all over the map. The Forester was relatively cheap but my next SUV will be either a Honda CRV, RAV or CX5... Might go for a Pilot or CX9 if we get another dog.

 

Well: how about a Mercedes? I am actually thinking of leaving the Subaru line for a Mercedes. Just not certain if I want to deal with the luxury Rigamarole.

 

What exactly are you looking to use your vehicle for?

Toyota are great, but if your an adventurous type then the Rav4 may leave some to be desired. I drove one for a few years and very much prefer my '14 Forester in just about every regard.

Land Rover? Don't do that unless you have lots of money to throw away. I've got two friends who said that was their worst car purchase ever.

The Hyundai isn't a bad vehicle at all. My mom has one and pulls a trailer half way across the country every summer with hers. It's held up really well so far and the interior cargo space is very impressive. Its comfortable on long drives too.

For the Bronco I'd say just be sure you know what you're getting. Its quite different from other vehicles on your list.

Have you checked out a CX5? One of my roommates drives one and we've all been taking turns driving when we head up the mountains to the snow. It drives really nice but reminds me of a Forster made with no off-road in mind.

Also depending on what you're after you may consider a Jeep Renegade. My dad bought one for when he doesn't want to spend $100 in one trip driving his truck. It does what we've needed it to for light duty off-road.

 

Hello all!
Quoting Bilbo, "I think I'm quite ready for another adventure."
Had the ups and downs with my 14 XT Touring , was a love hate relationship. Dealership(Rafferty Subaru) servicing was the worst.
Subaru problems seem to continue based on my own experience as well as other members postings here. They are NOT the same Subs which were known for the ruggedness and quality.

So Im looking to part ways, my current list of cars are(no particular order):

2021 Bronco
2021 Santa Fe
2021 Defender 110
2021 RAV4

Defender is nice but to get what i like price jumps to 60K, so I think this drops to the bottom of the list. Santa Fe prolly is not on the same level as the Bronco\Defender but it looks great and tech is top notch.
Not sure what other models to put on the list...

Can you guys please give me your suggestions and reasons as to what you would look for?

Thank You in advance...

Did you place a reservation for a Bronco? If not getting one is a long time away.
Weird to see Rav4 and D110 on the same list, but if Subaru reliability didn’t hold up to your expectations I don’t think a Land Rover will.
I vote Santa Fe.

 

No reservation yet! waiting for them to roll out for a test drive...

Going by your list, I'd recommend the RAV4.
Toyotas are bullet proof. I'd also look at the Honda CRV!

Honda CRV!! Not me!!! ...although they're reliable

 

@GeoSol I use to drive a 2015XT. I had a laundry list of issues, but my ownership experience wasn’t so bad since I always had a loaner vehicle. Eventually at 60K miles the CVT died.

I thought my replacement vehicle was going to be a 2019 Tacoma TRD offroad, but I was just too big for it. I previously drove a 2008 FJ Cruiser TRD 4WD and I did not like the MPGs, road handling and steering dead zone, so I did not consider a 4runner. Luckily the Honda dealership was next door, and after test driving the Passport, it was a done deal. I’m surprised you didn’t consider one. The Rav4 and Kia Sorrento aren’t even on the same level, at any level. Offroad, 0-60, size. Here’s a video about why I bought one, and check out the rest of the channel to see where I have taken my Passport. Moderate 4wd trails were a challenging to impossible in the FXT, but easy in the Passport. Oh, and BTW.. if I had to choose between all those vehicles, I’d probably go with the Bronco. Too bad I didn’t have the option back in Feb of 2019.

edit btw, I have 57K miles on the Passport now. Not one replaced part.