('09-'13) Started running like poop - Would Grounding/Big 3 cause issues? - Updated! - Subaru Forester Owners Forum
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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Started running like poop - Would Grounding/Big 3 cause issues? - Updated!

Hey all, I have a 2009 Forester X, and I recently installed a Flex Innovations Grounding Kit, and Big 3 kit. My front O2 Sensor wasn't bad, but at 135k and not knowing when it was done, i figured a new one wouldn't hurt. Well, installed the kit and the sensor, and took it for a drive, and it seemed like it wasn't reacting right.

Before the kit, I like to reset my ECU after every 5k miles, cus it just seemed to get "gummed up" and hesitate, and seem laggy upon acceleration. Resetting the ECU always fixed this, and kept it running well. Well, when I installed the ground kit and O2 sensor, the first drive it seemed off. Same lagging as after the ECU hasn't been reset in a while, but worse. I put my foot down, and my TPS reading would shoot up, MAP reading would shoot up, and Ignition timing pulled back. (I run a scangauge) . I figured maybe i got a faulty sensor, so got another new front O2 and tried again.

This time, it ran GREAT! i got fantastic mileage, the throttle response was nice and RIGHT there, and it was driving super nice....But only for that night and then to work the next day. Then it started running like poop again.

It seems like it is shifting too early, when i barely have my foot on the gas accelerating. Itll feel fine in the gear its in, then shift and be lugging in the gear above, shooting the MAP and TPS up (even tho i didn't move my foot) and pulling timing. You can get it to even out by letting off the gas a little, but then it just wants to shift again cus at that point its thinking you don't want to accelerate when really im just trynna get the sensors to level out. The only work around is to drive it in sport mode, so it holds the gears longer, and you can back off the gas a lil and let the sensors level out and it wont shift, But sometimes it holds them too long.

It seems like i could have a bad TPS (can you even replace them on these cars?) or a bad knock sensor. I don't think its a bad MAF.

EDIT: added description of performance:

When i am accelerating at a fair speed but not quickly, and have my foot maybe 25% down, and it gets to a certain RPM it just assumes i want to shift, and shifts.

When keeping speed barely on the gas, i run around 8 to 10 (out of 14.7) MAP reading, around 18 to 25 TPS reading (out of 100), and between 20 and 30 ignition timing. (up to 40 if im practically coasting but still giving it gas. I assume ignition timing is "Before TDC", so 40 would be "advanced" and 5 would be still before TDC but "retarded" to normal timing).

So if i am barely accelerating with the conditions listed above, it will then shift before i necessarily want it to, and while keeping my foot at the same exact pedal position, it kicks my MAP reading straight to 14, and TPS to 80 ish, and pulls back timing to 5, 8, 10 ish degrees, even tho i didn't move my foot at all when it decides to shift. I can get it to remedy a little bit by backing off the gas, but then depending on my speed it just wants to shift again and is caught in that loop until i go ALL THE WAY off the gas. THEN i can ease on the gas and it performs better but not best.

SOMETIMES then, if i back my foot off the accelerator, the map and TPS will go back down, and itll feel like its reading right and running decent again, but if i put just barelyy tooo much pressure on the accelerator, the load goes up, MAP reading goes up into the 13s, and iginition gets pulled back pretty far. around 10 again.

For reference, when the car was running well, usually upon "normal" acceleration in traffic, the MAP would peak around 12.5-12.8 (rarely get above 13, deff never touch 14) and ignition timing usually doesn't go below 20. It also just felt more alive, and less boggy. (obviously...) Also, I was not monitering TPS before, so i cannot comment on "normal" TPS readings. However, recently with it running the way it is, I hit the sensor values described during the issue, very very regularly. This definitely isn't "normal" summer performance.

END EDIT



Would the Grounding/Big 3 kits cause any issues?? i don't see how its possible it would, they should only make things run better!

Sorry for the mess of a thread/description, hoping someone may be able to help!

Thanks


Last edited by ipodwinner31; 06-21-2019 at 10:31 AM.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, Mechanically stock

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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 03:21 PM
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The kit you installed has had good results in the past so I wouldn't suspect it is the issue: Flex Innovations Grounding kit

Are you absolutely sure you have the correct O2 sensor as an incompatible version can cause problems.

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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 04:32 PM
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Do you have a lit CEL? If so, what code(s) do you have?

When you reset the ECM & all is well, but in time the problems return, tells me you have a problem that the ECM relearns.

We never reset the ECM on our Foresters.

As noted by @Kevin , did you replace the O2 sensor with a Denso factory/OEM or a Denso aftermarket, OEM style. You can find your O2 sensor part number here on densoaftermarket.com.

• 234-9123 - B1S1, front, upstream, Air/Fuel O2 sensor
• 234-4445 - B1S2, rear, downstream O2 sensor

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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No CELs.

I replaced the O2 sensor with a Denso OEM replacement from Autozone. Looked identical to the one i took out. I know Subarus like Denso sensors the best, and have always tried to run just them.

When i was doing the ATF change, I at first accidentally filled the front diff (used to manual subies where tranny dip stick is on the passenger side. my fozzy is a 4EAT tho) so i took the intake box off, but not all the way off, just flipped it over top of the intake manifold, with 1/3 vacuum hoses still attached. Is it possible i damaged one of the sensors/wires in that area? What is the sensor on that front side vacuum hose?

Last edited by ipodwinner31; 06-19-2019 at 12:32 PM.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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also to note, at idle my tps is reading 13. shouldn't it be reading 0 at idle?
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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Bump,

Reset the ECU 2 days ago, did not solve the issue. It is definitely A LOT worse when running the AC (currently around 105 peak here in Phoenix, AZ) but even when i can get away with not running the AC (Down around 90) the problem is still there.

I posted a description of the issue in my main post, however will try to be a little more descriptive here.

When i am accelerating at a fair speed but not quickly, and have my foot maybe 25% down, and it gets to a certain RPM it just assumes i want to shift, and shifts.

When keeping speed barely on the gas, i run around 8 to 10 (out of 14.7) MAP reading, around 18 to 25 TPS reading (out of 100), and between 20 and 30 ignition timing. (up to 40 if im practically coasting but still giving it gas. I assume ignition timing is "Before TDC", so 40 would be "advanced" and 5 would be still before TDC but "retarded" to normal timing).

So if i am barely accelerating with the conditions listed above, it will then shift before i necessarily want it to, and while keeping my foot at the same exact pedal position, it kicks my MAP reading straight to 14, and TPS to 80 ish, and pulls back timing to 5, 8, 10 ish degrees, even tho i didn't move my foot at all when it decides to shift. I can get it to remedy a little bit by backing off the gas, but then depending on my speed it just wants to shift again and is caught in that loop until i go ALL THE WAY off the gas. THEN i can ease on the gas and it performs better but not best.

SOMETIMES then, if i back my foot off the accelerator, the map and TPS will go back down, and itll feel like its reading right and running decent again, but if i put just barelyy tooo much pressure on the accelerator, the load goes up, MAP reading goes up into the 13s, and iginition gets pulled back pretty far. around 10 again.

For reference, when the car was running well, usually upon "normal" acceleration in traffic, the MAP would peak around 12.5-12.8 (rarely get above 13, deff never touch 14) and ignition timing usually doesn't go below 20. It also just felt more alive, and less boggy. (obviously...) Also, I was not monitering TPS before, so i cannot comment on "normal" TPS readings. However, recently with it running the way it is, I hit the sensor values described during the issue, very very regularly. This definitely isn't "normal" summer performance.


It feels a lot like a TPS sensor. I had this issue on my 02 Impreza RS for a while, almost identical. and after adjusting my TPS, i got it to run superb! But as far as i am aware, the 09 Foresters don't have adjustment for the TPS since its Drive By Wire, correct?
Would a faulty sensor cause this, and replacing the sensor as a whole would possibly fix my problem?
Where on the engine is the TPS even located on this car?


Another final question i have, is do you think any juice from the coil wires could be messing with the ground signal? One of the ground wires does run parallel to an ignition wire for a short distance, is it possible I am getting some signal interference here?? I will post pictures once i can.

Sorry for the Novel, I hope it helps in being descriptive!
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