Why don't you offer Nokian tires online ? - Page 3 - Subaru Forester Owners Forum
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post #31 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 09:04 AM
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Hmm, good info.

Being in Arizona, you probably have no knowledge of Maryland winters. I would think the R's would be fine for out here.

Is there a treadlife warranty on either model?

I seem to remember a friend of mine having a pair of SOME Nokian on his 05 LGT wagon that had a, like, 50k mile tread warranty.

They are pretty aggressive with road clearing where we live, though the neighborhood is typically last on the clearing list. She hasn't had any "stuck" issue in the 2 winters we've had her car with RE92's.

Any package deals if I buy 3 sets of tires at once?






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post #32 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 09:25 AM
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BAC originally posted:
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Originally Posted by BAC5.2 View Post
Is the Hakka 5 supposed to be the "better" snow tire between the 5 and the R?

I really want to get a set for my wifes car this winter.
To which DTD replied:
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Originally Posted by Discount Tire Direct View Post
^
I wouldn't say one model is better than the other. It all depends on your driving conditions. The Hakkapeliitta 5 is a little more aggressive in design when compared to the R model and is also studdable. If your driving conditions call for studds then this is certainly the model for you. Even not studded though, this model will excel in deeper snow conditions do to them ore aggressive tread design. If you are mainly driving on cleared roads, the Hallapeliitta R may be the better option for you. This model does very well in light snow conditions and excels on ice and wet conditions. Compared to the Hakka 5, the R will have a little better ride quality on cleared roads because the tread pattern is not quiet as aggressive.
^ +1.

Also, BAC, look for the Hakka 7 - they're available by "special-order" now, Stateside, and they dominated several of the European winter-tire tests of the studded sub-genre.

But in all honesty, I think you'll be more than just fine with the R, and that you might even want to "drop down" to "Performance Winters."

If you're set on looking at "Studless Ice & Snows," cross-shop the Michelin Xi2, which dominated European tests - placing ahead of the Nokian Hakka R based on clear-roadway (both wet and dry) stability and performance. The Continental ExtremeWinterContact is another front-runner, and biases for performance on clear roadways at the expense of a bit of wintry traction as compared with the others above (although rumor has it that their 2010 reformulation specifically works to improve on that shortcoming).

Truthfully, though, for your geographic area, I'd more shop for "Performance Winters" or a "winter capable" all-season, such as the Nokian WR or WRG2 (note that neither of the Nokians rank highly in terms of treadwear on various tests, but strangely enough, virtually everyone who has them rate treadwear as one of the nice things about these tires ). A V-rated "Performance Winter" will have good tread-life (particularly if you don't abuse them during the warmer transitional seasons) and will handle like a good set of HPAS tires, to-boot. At the same time, traditional all-season tires which can more than "survive" the winter months (look at Car & Driver's 2009 test of 4 Michelin offerings) will also offer more safety/security in terms of clear-roadway performance, at temperatures markedly lower than what most vested-interest tire sources will maintain (Car & Driver performed their testing, for that particular section of their comparison, at 23 deg. F.).

It's all about how you want to play the compromises....


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post #33 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 09:29 AM
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I think a dedicated snow tire for her car would be fine, and a more performance oriented non-snow capable tire would be good for the "off-season". Maybe the Hakka R's for snow, and Continental ExtremeContactDW for the non-snow. I'll have to look into the Xi2 and the ExtremeWinterContact though. I've never considered buying snow tires before, so this is all new to me.

For my car, I'll probably get the ExtremeContactDWS since I'll only have one set of wheels to clear the Brembos. One day I might get a second set of BBK clearing wheels, then we'll both have dedicated snow tires.

Actually, I did have one set of snow tires once. A set of Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 RFT's, which have seemingly lasted forever. I ran them for a time on my old Legacy, then gave them to my boss to put on his wifes RS. They've been on her car, year round, for the past 4 or so years. Including MANY road trips, and constant driving. They look brand new.

I don't recall them being GREAT in the snow (but I did have several hundred WHP), but I remember them being decent.




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post #34 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 10:44 AM
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^ That's actually very good memory - the LM series are "Performance Winters," so in deeper snow/slush and on ice, they will be more compromised than otherwise "more aggressively winter" tires.

It's both a function of their tread design (much of which is where you'll gain snow/slush performance), tread depth (the lower starting tread-depths of the "Performance Winter" genres lends to them slightly more sure-footing at highway speeds, as does their compounding and other "unseens"), as well as their "unseen" aspects such as carcass internals and compounding.

The Bridgestone Blizzak LM-series tires, like other "Performance Winters," are designed to perform almost like all-season tires in the clear, while giving the driver a larger safety (or fun) margin when wintry precip starts to hit the ground. They are, as any other tire, a compromise, and where they compromise is in the deeper and/or slipperier wintry stuff (i.e. deep powder and ice, respectively) when framed against the "Studless Ice & Snows," as well as in terms of clear-weather handling, both wet and dry, in terms of "All Season" tires. [ Note Bridgestone's attempt to fill in the void a little more, with the LM60, which utilizes, visibly, the WS-series (Bridgestone's designation for "Studless Ice & Snow" tires) tread-pattern, while maintaining the performance orientation (i.e. higher speed-rating: note that the WS-series, with use of their proprietary top-layer, cannot attain higher speed ratings) of the rest of the LM lineup.... As-expected, it trades off a bit of highway stability and clear-weather performance for better snow capabilities. ]

A dedicated "deep winter" set, which you'll only use in true winter conditions (i.e. maybe save them for December through mid-February?), given that you're in MD, plus a set of good all-seasons that will not be unsafe, if "caught-out" in an unseasonal storm, is what I think would be ideal (and what I use) for my wife, too. Unless you and/or your wife can see the fun-factor of a dedicated set of "summer" tires, the winter/all-season combo will give you more of a safety buffer, during those transitional months.

If you haven't purchased winter tires before, cross my screen-name here as well as on LegacyGT.com with the terms "winter tires" - there's quite a few threads in which I've participated, along with many other winter tire enthusiasts, particularly over at LGT.com, that should help guide your decision-making process. Also, Luke's "Official Winter Tire Thread" over at NASIOC (where my screen name is LGT+WRX) has a great introductory OP read on page 1, and some in-depth discussions, too.

Remember, the first and most fundamental decision you have to come to is where your needs and wants fall in the overall spectrum of things - and will you best benefit from:

- "winter capable" all-seasons
- "Performance Winters"
- "Studless Ice & Snows"

or

- studded winter tires.

Each of these 4 categories (3 sub-genres of "winter tires," along with that AS alternative) will demand specific compromises and have specific strengths - and it is to these weaknesses and strengths that you need to match your unique and specific desires.

Once you've made that initial choice, the one of sub-genre, the rest simply becomes debating which specific tire to buy in that sub-genre, and that can be anything from fitment to pricing, and that will be much easier.

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post #35 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAC5.2 View Post
Hmm, good info.

Being in Arizona, you probably have no knowledge of Maryland winters. I would think the R's would be fine for out here.

Is there a treadlife warranty on either model?

I seem to remember a friend of mine having a pair of SOME Nokian on his 05 LGT wagon that had a, like, 50k mile tread warranty.

They are pretty aggressive with road clearing where we live, though the neighborhood is typically last on the clearing list. She hasn't had any "stuck" issue in the 2 winters we've had her car with RE92's.

Any package deals if I buy 3 sets of tires at once?
Nokian does not offer any treadlife warranties on any of their winter tires.

As far as package deals go, we currently do not offer any discounts on multiple sets as we do guarantee the lowest delivered price on them already. If you can find a competitor with a cheaper delivered price, give us a call at 1.888.459.4080 and we'll beat it

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post #36 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discount Tire Direct View Post
Nokian does not offer any treadlife warranties on any of their winter tires.
^I'm truly getting conflicting information on this:

http://www.nokiantires.com/files/nok...F/WARRANTY.pdf

I know that you specified "winter tires" above, and that would indeed be true , but I think that BAC is also bringing in the WRG2 and WRG2 SUV, given his specific application (and also given that he said "SOME," as he is confessed to be not familiar with their tire line nor which specific tire he was referencing), which do carry the "Snowflake on the Mountain" symbol of severe-weather service (and is actually also listed as one of their "winter" tires).

What I don't quite get is that Consumer Reports and several other resources maintains that Nokian does not have treadwear warranties on their products?


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post #37 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 07:12 PM
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I went on a Norwegian site. it says they have 4mm thread/1 year only.

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post #38 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 07:32 PM
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^ It may be different here in North America (and even the US, specifically, versus Canada).

Our (North America's) winter tire considerations are somewhat complex, due to the unique nature of the market here.

Although this is something that many of us here are aware of, it was hard to put in to words. outahere, a winter-tire (among other things) guru on LegacyGT.com, recently brought this article to our attention, which very well demonstrates such unique-physical-location considerations:

From: http://www.tirereview.com/Article/75..._updating.aspx

Quote:
.........For instance, even with the current loose definition [of a winter tire], not all winter tires are equal.

Toyo Tire & Rubber Co. engineers, for example, consider winter tires based on the geographic region of origin.

According to Mamoru Yamamoto, tire technical service department manager for Toyo, there are distinct winter tire types sold into the North American market. There are easily discernable physical differences – tread and shoulder shape and tread patterns in particular – and less visible differences demanded by prevailing weather.

There is a Scandinavian type that is tuned to the harsh climate and snow/ice roads of that region, Yama moto points out. European-type winter tires are more about wet traction and higher road speeds with only occasional snow and low temperatures. Japan/ Asia winter tires have to address heavy, packed snow but not sub-arctic temperatures.

North America tends to see all three types, thanks to its broad geography, average winter temperatures that run from 0˚F to 32˚F, and varying degrees of snow removal. Yamamoto points out, though, without understanding the prevalent weather conditions, road surface care and even driver attitude, dealers could be misapplying winter treads on customer cars.

Large, global tiremakers tailor their winter tire offerings to the specific conditions of individual markets, he notes, but tires from smaller companies may be tuned only to their home market conditions. Bottom line: Not all winter tires are alike......
That shows the technical differences - but based on such differences (and exclusive of things like marketing concern: for example, note that Nokian here in North America is billed as an "ultra high-end" tire), things like treadwear warranties can vary, too.

And believe me, Elmy, these geographic/market differences currently weigh heavily on my mind, for I'm trying to decide on a set of premium studded tires.

Based on the NAF tests of last year, I know what I want, but many of us stateside enthusiasts/hobbyists are now starting to worry/wonder if perhaps we cannot look too much to the highly regarded - almost "definitive" in terms of its authority - winter testing that's done abroad (particularly in the colder parts of the world), specifically due to fears of unseen differences in tire composition.

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post #39 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 08:12 PM
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^I don't belive anything you say m8, just give up

Kidding, I get your point

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post #40 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 05:42 AM
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^

Man, I wish I lived where you are.... You guys get first run of what's best and new.

Now, certainly, y'all also have to deal with potentially not a great product that might need evolutionary updates (i.e. the Pirelli Winter Carving, per the Russian Auto Review of it in 2006 and again in 2007) - but still, I wish I could get your first-run stuff.

The Michelin Xi2-Nord, especially, would be something that I'd buy, outright, given our experiences here with the Xi2 as a frame-of-reference.


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post #41 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 07:10 AM
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^Too bad you don't live here then.
But your welcome to come visit

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post #42 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 07:20 AM
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^ Maybe I can put the tires in my luggage, for my return trip?

Yep, just to rub it in (er...wait, I'm rubbing it into myself! ), look at the Hakka 7s. North America is just now starting to see the Hakka 7s, which are reportedly available here only by special order - supposedly, they won't fully come on-line here until *next* winter.

Yeah, we really trail you guys, when it comes to winter tires!

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post #43 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 08:35 AM
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Another delightful oddity about our United States is that each one has its own laws regarding tire studding (and many other things too, especially booze!). If your life entails the likelihood of driving through different states, particularly in a north-south direction, be very careful to understand the laws of each state that you intend to pass through along the way. And check the calendar, as some of them depend on the month.

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post #44 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 11:25 AM
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^ Good pick-up!

Yep, that calendar thing is no joke - for Ohio, it's the first day of November (that's easy enough to remember) through the 15th of the following April!

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post #45 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 11:39 AM
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Did not checked but I think these: tires-easy.com selling some Nokian tires
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