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2004 Forester XT PP
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Well, I got a B&M Supercooler. I'm doing everything I can to prep my car for the upgrades that are to ensue very, very soon.

Anyway, I remember on the old site there was a write-up with pics on how to install one of these suckers. However, since I'm still trying to get the old database usable again, I can't find it. Does anyone know of a write-up anywhere? I'm debating whether or not it's something I want to attempt.
TIA...
 

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admin
2019 3.6R & 98 Forester Atlanta, GA
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4EAT tranny cooler install

I have some of the old threads saved and was able to find this one.

Here is some info on how I’ve added a B&M SuperCooler part #70255 to my Forester.
http://bmracing.com/index.php?id=products&sid=4&cat=20&subcat=28&pid=73
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=egnsearch.asp&N=400004
I think it is a very good upgrade for anyone with a 4EAT who tows, drives real hard, races, or like me plans to increase HP.Twisted Evil
I’ve noticed about 10 degree temp drop in normal light around town driving. Prior to the install I’d see about 175 degrees, now I see about 165. My temp sensor is located in the tranny oil pan. The drop in temp will probably be greater under more adverse conditions. The kit is pretty complete, I only needed extra small hose clamps. You will need a half a quart of Dexron III to make up for what gets spilt and the increased capacity of the cooler. I really like the stacked plate design of the B&M it is one nice cooler. The tube and fin ones are much more susceptible to fin damage during installation.



If I were to do another install I will use the B&M supplied fastening hardware rather than my “time saving” custom bracket. By the time I built it and installed it I could have pulled the radiator and gained access to the back of the AC condenser (radiator). The job would have been done with enough time left over to wash the car.






This is the fluid line I tapped into for the cooler. It is the oil return line from the stock radiator cooler/heater to the tranny. There is a rubber hose to metal pipe connection by the arrow. I took the connection apart and attached one B&M hose to the metal line and used a barbed hose adapter to connect the other B&M hose to the radiator hose.



Also, I just drove my lowered XT onto my 3" mini ramps. Next time I will put the car on jack stands and give myself a little more room to work. There is not a whole lot of room around the fluid hoses. Larger coolers will fit too if you should need one.

Hope this info helps,
Richard
 

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2019 3.6R & 98 Forester Atlanta, GA
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It is a little difficult to read but here is the rest of the first page of that thread. I think the second page is lost.

pleiad7
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 3581
Location: The backroads of Sonoma County

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: 4EAT tranny cooler install
Reply with quoteSuperRu wrote:
I’ve noticed about 10 degree temp drop in normal light around town driving. Prior to the install I’d see about 175 degrees, now I see about 165.

Shocked
Wow, your tranny gets hot! Is that under normal driving? Mine rarely gets over 140 degrees under normal to spirited conditions; I've got the temp sensor in the tranny drain plug.

Sometimes I can drive two thirds of my commute (~10 miles) before my temp gauge will change from displaying "trans temp low" (<110 degrees) to an actual temperature readout.
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MY04 Forester XT PP ~ "Subed"


SuperRu
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Posts: 1163
Location: Little Five Points (Atlanta, GA)

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, this is under normal city stop and go city driving. I've seen 200 when racing through the mountains twisties. The normal operating temperature for our trannys is 154 to 176 according to the owners manual, but the service manual says 140 to 176. I'm using one VDO gauge with the same type senders for both oil and tranny temp. They both seem to read consistently.
Do you think mine might read a little high and yours a little low? Do you have oil temp too? If so what type of reading do you get?
Anyhow, with my high readings I'm glad to have the additional cooling.
Do you think it might be because you are all cooler on the west coast? Very Happy Laughing
Richard
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AaronB
5th Level Forester
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 152
Location: AZ

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Great post! Especially since I will be doing this in the next week or two. I also ordered the B & M cooler you mentioned.


SuperRu
Moderator
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 5:23 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks and good luck on your install.

Contact me if I can be of assistance,
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pleiad7
I'm the seventh sister

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 5:44 am Post subject: Reply with quote
SuperRu wrote:
Do you think mine might read a little high and yours a little low? Do you have oil temp too? If so what type of reading do you get?

It's possible that they're reading differently. My engine oil temp is usually around 200 degrees (anywhere between 195 and 205 depending on conditions). What's yours?
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MY04 Forester XT PP ~ "Subed"

SuperRu
Moderator

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 6:38 am Post subject: Reply with quote
My oil temp runs 185 to almost 220 when pushed real hard.
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AaronB
5th Level Forester





PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 9:06 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Richard,

Thanks again for the write-up. I installed mine this weekend referencing your instructions. The only things I observed are:

1. I put mine a couple inches further over on the driver's side. This actually made things more difficult as the hose routing was harder to keep them from getting kinked. It was too close to the upright support. So your location is better.

2. I used the provided hardware to install it. I removed the top radiator supports and pulled the radiator out of the bottom holes. The gave just enough room to run the provided plastic straps/clips to run through the AC Condenser and mount up the tranny cooler in front (although my hands look like a went 10 rounds with a cheese grater). I used the provided adhesive pads to space the tranny cooler 1/8" away from the condenser as recommended by B & M.

3. Have a rag or something available to collect the used ATF that will dribble out when you unhook the return line. It isn't much, but enough to make a mess if you aren't expecting it.

4. The line provided by B & M was a bit of a pain to get over the metal return line, but with time it slid on. It doesn't help that everything will be slippery from ATF.

The B & M kit is well thought out and I didn't need anything else, other than fluid, to install the kit.

Regards,

Aaron
SuperRu
Moderator

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 2:06 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Glad your install went well. Smile

I had the a fun weekend of mountain driving and was very pleased with the reduction in tranny oil temp. A third gear spirited mountain climb with periodic down shifts into second resulted in a max tranny temp of only 180. Before the cooler it would it be pushing 200.

AaronB wrote:

4. The line provided by B & M was a bit of a pain to get over the metal return line, but with time it slid on. It doesn't help that everything will be slippery from ATF.

Yeah, I know what you mean.
I forgot to add to my post that I heated the hose ends with a hair dryer and then they were easier to install.

Any pictures of your install Aaron?
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silverghost
Forester Convert
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Fair Oaks

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 1:20 pm Post subject: Hose routing Reply with quote
Great thread. I was curious how you hooked up the hoses to the cooler for the best cooling.

Incoming (hot) oil to the bottom of cooler so it comes out of the top OR

Incoming oil to the top of cooler so it comes out of the bottom port on the cooler.

Thanks!
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SuperRu
Moderator

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Hose routing Reply with quote
silverghost wrote:
Great thread. I was curious how you hooked up the hoses to the cooler for the best cooling.

Incoming (hot) oil to the bottom of cooler so it comes out of the top OR

Incoming oil to the top of cooler so it comes out of the bottom port on the cooler.

Thanks!


Good question. For no particular reason other than it seemed right. I routed the incoming oil (the hose from the radiator) to the top of the cooler. The cooler bottom return line is attached to the metal return line.

Aaron how did you plumb yours?
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silverghost
Forester Convert

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 5:30 am Post subject: Reply with quote
I think I remember a long time ago I heard (from somewhere?) that when a tranny cooler was mounted this way if the hot oil was hooked up to the bottom hose and exited through the top, the oil would cool more efficiently because it would take longer to pass through the cooler. Just wanted to see if this was true is why I asked. Question
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AaronB
5th Level Forester

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Hose routing Reply with quote
SuperRu wrote:
Good question. For no particular reason other than it seemed right. I routed the incoming oil (the hose from the radiator) to the top of the cooler. The cooler bottom return line is attached to the metal return line.
Aaron how did you plumb yours?
Richard


I hooked mine up the same way, I agreed that it just seemed to be the correct way to hook it up to me as well. I thought the B & M instruction diagrams showed it hooked up that way as well...
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MountainBiker
8th Level Forester
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 405
Location: Sonoma County, CA, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:01 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Silverghost has made a good point. Speaking theoretically:
If the input is on the bottom, then air will quite easily purge itself when the pump starts moving fluid. This can have the effect of keeping the fluid in the heat exchanger for longer. If the input is at the top, then air may stay trapped in the heat exchanger, since it is always trying to rise to the top as well. In this case, the fluid will "fall" through the air pocket, and be in there for a shorter period.

Speaking theoretically again, what if there is no trapped air in the heat exchanger? The hotter fluid is less dense, so it will "float" to the top. The higher density cold fluid will "fall" to the bottom. So in this case, the coolest fluid will be at the bottom, so that is a good place for it to exit and head back to the transmission.

If the fluid flow is quite fast, then air pockets may not be an issue?
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ducktapeguy
8th Level Forester
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 415
Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Both my inputs are on the bottom Embarassed I don't think it really matters too much anyway, I was wondering the same thing about what's the correct way to install them and if there is a problem with air bubbles, so I called the good people at B&M. He basically said it didn't matter, no matter how you install it, the air will purge itself once the car starts pumping tranny fluid through it. I think the fluid probably moves through the cooler at a fast enough rate that it doesn't spend a whole lot of time in the cooler, so any fluid movement due to convection (or is it conduction, no i think it's convection, shoot, I gotta go look it up, yup it's convection) is probably minimal.

Another issue that I was debating when i installed mine was where in the line do you mount the cooler? It could be series or parallel with the stock cooler, and before or after the stock one. It seems people mount them in every conceivable configuration, with good reasons for each. In parallel, you'll have less back pressure on the pump because the fluid will always take the path of least resistance, and you may or may not have better cooling, plus it acts as a bypass if something gets clogged. If done in series, some people say it's better to mount it before the stock cooler because in cold weather, the stock cooler acts as a heater to bring the tranny fluid up to temperature since it's in the radiator, so you won't overcool the fluid.

I ended up mounting it in series after the stock cooler (the most common method), because the stock cooler is a fluid to fluid heat exchanger (which is about 8 times more efficient than air to fluid), so most of the cooling is done in the stock cooler, and the B&M just provides additional cooling. I don't have to worry about overcooling the tranny, so bringing the fluid up to temperature didn't worry me too much.
 

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BTW, if you don't already have a trans temp sensor, now is a good time to install a temperature manifold w/sensor inline before the cooler(s).
 

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Boca_Yid said:
BTW, if you don't already have a trans temp sensor, now is a good time to install a temperature manifold w/sensor inline before the cooler(s).
How did you do your temp manifold w/sensor? I need to move my temp sender from the pan to make room for a Fumoto drain valve.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
SuperRu said:
How did you do your temp manifold w/sensor? I need to move my temp sender from the pan to make room for a Fumoto drain valve.
I'm curious too, since I now have a fumoto valve on my transmission pan.
 

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http://www.autometer.com/cat_accessoriesdetail.aspx?vid=165

You will need to get one straight (180deg) barb fitting and one right angle (90deg) barb fitting to replace the 2 compression fittings supplied in the kit.
Your local auto parts store should stock it, if not a place like Summit Racing should have it.
Install the sensor into the manifold along with the 2 barbs.
Now cut the hose going TO the cooler (not from the cooler) just past the U where it leaves the hard pipe.
The right angle barb side of the manifold attaches to this U hose with the barb facing down.
The barb on the other side of the manifold should face forward so the hose can run past the driver's side of the radiator and to the new cooler.
The return hose from the new cooler attaches to the other side of the hose you first cut using the barb coupler that should have come in the cooler kit.
I then tie-wrapped the manifold to a bracket used for the hard trans fluid pipes (just above the first splice).
I'll snap some photos of the setup when I get a chance.
 

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When installing a temp sensor in line, how do you ground the sensor? Autometer's instructions say it should be grounded. Through the fluid?
 

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Get a metal hose clamp that will fit around the sensor hex.
Solder a wire to the hose clamp.
Tighten hose clamp around the sensor.
Ground the other end.
Tada!
 

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SuperRu-

The pictures of your install aren't loading right now. Have you taken them down or is there a problem with your hosting? I just referred another member to this thread as he had questions about the install.

Thanks
 

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Subajew, can you post some pics of the temp gauge sensors? I am preparing to do a tranny gauge, an sort of confused how you did yours.

I looking for the most accurate readings, and thinking that this location would get better results than a santwich plate sensor for the filter, or plug sensor right?
 

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How did you do your temp manifold w/sensor? I need to move my temp sender from the pan to make room for a Fumoto drain valve.


How much is a Transmission Temp Sensor? I just ordered a Brake Controller, Hitch, Wiring Harness, and Transmission Cooler. A temp sensor would be nice, but I an not sure how much more I want to spend at this point.

PS. What does a gauge look like? (Post Pics of your gauge and location) I already have a Scan Gauge and GPS mounted to the dash, and am running out of room on the dash...
 

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2019 3.6R & 98 Forester Atlanta, GA
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How much is a Transmission Temp Sensor?
I purchased mine a while ago from
VDO Gauges from egauges.com


PS. What does a gauge look like? (Post Pics of your gauge and location) I already have a Scan Gauge and GPS mounted to the dash, and am running out of room on the dash...
The water temp gauge reads tranny temp. I chose it because it had a more useful read out range.

 

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I purchased mine a while ago from
VDO Gauges from egauges.com
Thanks SuperRu. Did you buy that Dash Gauge cluster/Mount (whatever you call it) at this site too? It would be nice to mount my Scan Gauge IN the dash, instead of ON the dash, so it less inviting to theft.

Also another question. I noticed when I start my Forester, one of the indicators on the dash is "AT Temp". I assume that this is the Automatic Transmission Temperature warning light. Correct me if I am wrong. Anyways, if the Forester already has a Temperature sensor, can I tap into that to get a live display?

James
 

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My gauge pod is an OEM Subaru part. Any one of our forum Subaru parts vendors should be able to hook you up with that part. The faceplate was custom fabricated by moi. I've made some on request.

The "AT Temp" light has a simple on/off warning sensor. It will not show actual temps.
 

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Two Questions:

What do you guys think about mounting a Temp sensor on the OUTSIDE of the Transmission. I can scavenge thermal couple from work and the transducer. I would just need a Gauge then.


I bought a new Transmission cooler at add to my car. Would it be better to run the Tranny oil though the New Cooler then the OEM cooler? Or the other way around.
 

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I then tie-wrapped the manifold to a bracket used for the hard trans fluid pipes (just above the first splice).
I'll snap some photos of the setup when I get a chance.

Any Photos yet of the Temp Sensor. Got my Trany cooler in the mail today. I want to buy a temp gauge before I install. Need everything in place by July (camping trip).
 

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2019 3.6R & 98 Forester Atlanta, GA
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Two Questions:
What do you guys think about mounting a Temp sensor on the OUTSIDE of the Transmission. I can scavenge thermal couple from work and the transducer. I would just need a Gauge then.
Not sure I have no experience with an external sensor

I bought a new Transmission cooler at add to my car. Would it be better to run the Tranny oil though the New Cooler then the OEM cooler? Or the other way around.
I run mine the other way around.
oem cooler -> new cooler

Any Photos yet of the Temp Sensor. Got my Trany cooler in the mail today. I want to buy a temp gauge before I install. Need everything in place by July (camping trip).
I installed mine in the drain plug. Similar to how the OEM oil temp sensor is installed.



 
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