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Premium Member
2007 Forester XT 4EAT-VTD
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2,138 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Here are the results of my re-tune with the Aquamist HFS3 system using ordinary -20 degree blue washer fluid (about 30% methanol, the rest water);

Old Tune / New Tune
max WHP - 261 to 274
max torque - 310 to 345
max IDC - 98% to 88%
AFR - 11.1/1 to 11.5/1

Conservative tune, zero knock events up to 140 MPH on the dyno. The Foz runs very smooth and of course, feels considerably stronger. I'm sure my EGT is now lower too.

Comparing the new tune to the previous one, the water/meth injection extends my HP and torque curve about 200 RPMs lower, so the power is not only coming on harder, but considerably sooner as well. I also gained an appreciable amount of real estate under the torque curve which most certainly can be felt driving the car (see graph - link below)!

Just for giggles, I had them do one full power pull in failsafe mode (wastegaste pressure, 7 PSI). I still made 240 WHP and 245 torque.

LINK TO GRAPH
 

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2004 Forester XT
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320 Posts
Looks awesome. That 11.5afr is definitely still conservative with meth.

I'm planning on running pretty much the same setup. My goal is to break 300whp on a mustang.


Looks like it shouldn't be too hard. I'm planning on going pretty aggressive with the tune, plus I'm on an ewg.

It is a mustang dyno down at EFI correct?
 

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2006 Forester XT Limited 4EAT
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2,000 Posts
Most excellent!
Which route did you go on the tank location?
 

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Premium Member
2007 Forester XT 4EAT-VTD
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2,138 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
It is a mustang dyno down at EFI correct?
Yes, and it seems to read low even for a Mustang.

Which route did you go on the tank location?
Used the stock washer reservior and mounted the pump right next to it. Take a look in my journal (link below) and on page 5 there are some photos. It worked out well!
 

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2004 fxt A/T
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2,567 Posts
Great numbers and EXTREMELY clean install. Something about injecting blue dye and detergent into an engine has never sat well with me. What are the built in fail safes?
 

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Premium Member
2007 Forester XT 4EAT-VTD
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2,138 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Great numbers and EXTREMELY clean install. Something about injecting blue dye and detergent into an engine has never sat well with me. What are the built in fail safes?
Thanks!

I know what you mean about the blue dye. However, a couple of points to consider;

1. The fluid is made entirely of methanol and water - there are no detergents or glycol in the cheap -20 degree Autozone washer fluid.

2. Many motor fuels have dye in them - deisel and aviation fuel come to mind. Some race fuels also have dye, so I'm not losing any sleep over it.

The failsafe system in the Aquamist set up is pretty good. The Fast Acting Valve incorporates a flow sensor. Once the jet size is finalized and the vehicle tuned, the failsafe potentiometers (water low and water high) are calibrated to the how the system is set up. The failsafe opens the connection to the EBCS which drops to waste gate pressure when activated.

To adjust the failsafe, I had a 200 mile drive home to do so. Starting with both "pots" fully off, I started with the "flow high" setting and adjusted it until the failsafe kept activating (you can really feel the boost drop when this happens). I then kept turning it back until the failsafe did not activate, which then calibrated the system for maximum expected flow for my set up. If the line from the valve to the jet in the TMIC gets cut or falls off, excess flow through the FAV will trip the failsafe.

The "water low" setting gets established in the same manner. In less-aggressive driving under boost, I kept dialing the pot back one click at a time until the system would not trip due to insufficient flow during normal (low boost/low flow) driving. Now if the jet gets plugged or the pump quits, the failsafe will be activated due to less than expected flow.

Also, the failsafe activates if the fluid level drops too low in the tank. Additionally, I installed a second float switch in the fluid reservior above the failsafe switch to activate a warning LED next to the gauge to indicate the tank is getting low.

This was the system I felt comfortable enough with to install in my own car. Pulling this kind of power out of our cars is always risky, but I think the Aquamist system covers all the bases the best out of the systems I considered.

And as one more added precaution - to guard against possible inconsistency in methanal content - I am "spiking" every gallon of the washer fluid with 12 ounces of Heet, which is straight methanol (car was tuned on straight washer fluid).

Here is a graph that shows all three of the tunes for comparison;

 

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2004 fxt A/T
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2,567 Posts
Awesome, I didn't realize there was no detergent in the cheap stuff. I remember a thread over on Nasioc when a guy busted a ring, when he separated the manifold from the heads he found MUCH more blue dye in the rear two runners/heads. It was odd to say the least, but you are still very conservative. Found it blue heads, not trying to scare you, I saw this a while back when considering Meth. He apparently pushing the stock block a bit too far regardless.
 

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2007 FXT vf37 swapped 4EAT w/ VDC
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782 Posts
I've actually heard that the -30 degree stuff is worse than the regular sub zero stuff. I can't remember exactly what the complaint was, but it sounds like it's working for you, and you're only replacing 10% of your fuel.

How many ccs?
 

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2007 Forester XT 4EAT-VTD
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2,138 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I've actually heard that the -30 degree stuff is worse than the regular sub zero stuff. I can't remember exactly what the complaint was, but it sounds like it's working for you, and you're only replacing 10% of your fuel.

How many ccs?
Most fluids under -25 degrees also contain glycol. The cheap, blue -20 degree stuff is usually the best bet - always check the MSDS for the product.

I'm injecting about 400 cc at maximum flow.
 

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2007 FXT vf37 swapped 4EAT w/ VDC
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782 Posts
Most fluids under -25 degrees also contain glycol. The cheap, blue -20 degree stuff is usually the best bet - always check the MSDS for the product.

I'm injecting about 400 cc at maximum flow.
Glycol, that's what it was. You're still on stock injectors/ ignition right?
 

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06 FXT-6MT happening
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341 Posts
You can also have the failsafe trigger "limp home" mode with the Aquamist.

I have an HFS-6 installed in my STi and when ANY failsafe trips, it triggers limp home mode.

To do that, you have to wire up a connection to the ECU, and what it does is essentially complete the connection that is otherwise made when you connect the green test mode connectors.

That not only triggers WG pressure, but also halves the IAM so that you are not running aggressive timing under high load/rpm if something fails.

There is more to be had with meth, and the real treat happens when you add timing and increase AFR.

11.5:1 is conservative on meth.
I am running 12.3:1 with some serious timing so if (when) something fails, it drops a crap load of timing (halves it) and drops me to WG boost and uses the failsafe fueling tables for open loop afr.

Keep in mind, when you are pedal to the metal in 4th gear, pulling 400+ awhp and bombing down the "track" at 120+, you most likely will not see a flashing LED telling you something just gave up.
That being said, you indicate 10% reduction in IDC now with the meth, which means your tuner pulled 10% of the fuel from your primary open loop fueling table.
That in turn means that if you do have a failure, and you are at full throttle, full boost, and peak load, you will instantly be 10% lean, which in turn means you will most likely detonate and could very easily break a fragile ring land ruining your engine, well before your brain sees the flashing failsafe LED, which causes you to lift the throttle in time.

It is nice to have the car lose about half it's horsepower instantly to let you know something is wrong.

I am pretty sure I was the first one to implement this failsafe on an Aquamist system.

I worked directly with Richard and Jeff Howerton to get it all set up properly and they were certain I was the first to make it work.

Requires some changes to the failsafe tables in your ROM, but those are easy.

P.S.
Unless you are running pure water (no meth) then your EGT is most likely higher under full spray than without it.
Alcohol is horrible at absorbing heat.
Your EGT's are higher.
 

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Premium Member
2007 Forester XT 4EAT-VTD
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2,138 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Dead Thread Update

This past spring I went from the washer fluid to 50% meth/50% distilled water. I did NOT get retuned, but the ECU seems to have adjusted for the higher octane under boost. The car certainly feels stronger, and a recent trip to New England Dragway confirms the better performance. With a "soft launch" I went from 13.4 (last year) to 13.2, and with a stall-speed power brake (3000 RPMs), the car broke into the 12s.I'm car #801 on the slips below -



I also got on a Land & Sea dyno (that supposedly reads a little lower than the EFI Logics Mustang dyno) and put down 268/360 -

 
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