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11 sec club
04 Cayenne TT
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Discussion Starter #1
I'm tying to figure out if I can bolt on my "new" turbo, tmic, and some other bolt-ons and not have problems just driving it around without punching it. What it boils down to is that I have to drive about 3 hours to get a tune so I'm just trying to determine if I can just putt down the road on the way there without any problems. However, I will be installing bigger injectors so that may be a significant factor. I can always trailer it up there but that will make for a slightly more expensive trip to and from the tuner.

Anyone with experience in this matter? I tried looking on nabisco with the usual overload of non-related answers to search queries.
 

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2004 Forester XT
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815 Posts
I would trying having someone email you a similar map (for your turbo)and load it to your AP. Otherwise take the risk, and stay out of boost, but three hours is a bit extended for driving untuned.

What turbo is it?
 

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how out of range is the new blower ?

It'll run like a POS but as long as it will start you should be able to get there off boost and in full on Driving Miss Daisy mode
 

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11 sec club
04 Cayenne TT
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Discussion Starter #4
I'm not sure how big is too big. It's a Momentum ej5-40t. TMIC is a APS unit. Header is a Borla. Injectors are ~800cc. I will have a wideband and EGT to monitor things. But even so I just want to make sure there isn't something else to watch for.
 

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Wow.. the larger injectors will probably make the car run like absolute crap if it even runs at all without a tune.
 

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98 Forester...what else
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1. You don't NEED the larger injectors.
2. You DON'T want the larger injectors.
3. You will have trouble with the larger injectors.

Where do I get my information from?

1. PDX Tuning
2. Gruppe-S Tuning
3. Easystreet Motorsports
4. Vishnu Performance Tuning

I spoke with all of the above concerning the purchase and installation on an EXACT setup like yours:

1. EJ5-40T turbo
2. STi I/C (was GPMoto, but bending a/c lines was a concern)
3. Helix uppipe
4. Stromung TBE

The only difference is the Borla headers, and I don't think that would warrant 800cc injectors.

All of the tuning houses had the same "We'll tune AROUND it, but it's otherwise a waste of fuel" comment. Most of them would make at least 250WHP and stay under 90% duty cycle on the stock injectors. If you choose NOT to take my advice, please make a Walbro 255 fuel pump a mandatory part of your installation list, so you don't starve the injectors for fuel load.

[email protected] made ~280WHP on silverghost's (member here) XT, but then turned down the wick because he lives at elevation, and didn't want the massive excess boost when coming down from the mountains.
 

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05 XTi FMIC
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2,564 Posts
Didnt Snowman drive to Atlanta from Tampa to get tuned after he installed his bits? Snowman? I think he did a TBE/TMIC/VF30/etc and grandma'd it....but no injectors, I think. That is alot longer than 3 hrs.

.02
 

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11 sec club
04 Cayenne TT
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1,486 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I'm already running a 255lph pump so I'm set there.

My main concerns are that I'm at sea level so the air here is quite good. I'd like to get the best boost that I can and not be restricted by the injectors. I'm still waiting to hear back from MZM, who will be doing the Pro Tune for me on the AP. Honestly, I've been on the fence about swapping the injectors. I got them cheap so reselling them would be a snap.

I'm grateful for the members here and any advice I can get (and weigh). That's one of the reasons I post things in advance to see if there are any red flags.

One of my maps will be for 104 octane race gas so that might be a solution to a few things that I'll have to deal with using just pump gas. But we have plenty of 93 octane pump gas here so I would think that I'll be OK with that as well.
 

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11 sec club
04 Cayenne TT
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Discussion Starter #9
I just sent PDX an email about the mail order stuff and combination of parts to get their input and about the mail order tunes.
 

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Actually RiftsWRX told me that the 40T moved about the same amount of air as a big 16g or a 18g and would require larger injectors.

Roo said:
1. You don't NEED the larger injectors.
2. You DON'T want the larger injectors.
3. You will have trouble with the larger injectors.

Where do I get my information from?

1. PDX Tuning
2. Gruppe-S Tuning
3. Easystreet Motorsports
4. Vishnu Performance Tuning

I spoke with all of the above concerning the purchase and installation on an EXACT setup like yours:

1. EJ5-40T turbo
2. STi I/C (was GPMoto, but bending a/c lines was a concern)
3. Helix uppipe
4. Stromung TBE

The only difference is the Borla headers, and I don't think that would warrant 800cc injectors.

All of the tuning houses had the same "We'll tune AROUND it, but it's otherwise a waste of fuel" comment. Most of them would make at least 250WHP and stay under 90% duty cycle on the stock injectors. If you choose NOT to take my advice, please make a Walbro 255 fuel pump a mandatory part of your installation list, so you don't starve the injectors for fuel load.

[email protected] made ~280WHP on silverghost's (member here) XT, but then turned down the wick because he lives at elevation, and didn't want the massive excess boost when coming down from the mountains.
 

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98 Forester...what else
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BTW, after LIC installed all the goodies for silverghost, they turned the wastegate down to about 5lbs of boost for his own safety.

I'm simply speaking from the experience of having helped source out the parts to build out a Forester XT, and speaking with tuners who have worked with the Momentum turbo. In Mike's experience (Gruppe-S), he seemed to believe that the EJ5-40T was around the size of a VF34 or 16G turbo.
 

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Not sure who is right since Jorge had the turbo installed on his own car for a while.

Roo said:
BTW, after LIC installed all the goodies for silverghost, they turned the wastegate down to about 5lbs of boost for his own safety.

I'm simply speaking from the experience of having helped source out the parts to build out a Forester XT, and speaking with tuners who have worked with the Momentum turbo. In Mike's experience (Gruppe-S), he seemed to believe that the EJ5-40T was around the size of a VF34 or 16G turbo.
 

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04 XT
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733 Posts
If you want to run more than a bar of boost then go for the injectors.

If you do then either trailer there or swap them in the parking lot. That's like 50% more fuel than stock. I can think of a lot of problems you'll have trying to drive it.
 

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11 sec club
04 Cayenne TT
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1,486 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
That's what I'm most worried about - driveability.

After reading through some more posts, I think I'll be happier with a bigger turbo. Maybe a FP green or a Deadbolt TD06. Hmmm...

Just trying to get my ducks in a row before I do something. Thanks for all the inputs!! It is greatly appreciated.
 

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Recovering Modaholic
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1,304 Posts
if you're already going with an APS intercooler and 800cc injectors, I would go with a green or DB20G.

only stay small if you want to keep the stock injectors. I'm going for a quick fix with the VF39 and ported STi header. eventually I'll switch to a DB18G and injectors. If you're already switching injectors, spend the extra $ and go with a larger turbo. tuning is the same price no matter what turbo.
 

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04 XT
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733 Posts
DOHCammin said:
if you're already going with an APS intercooler and 800cc injectors, I would go with a green or DB20G.

If you're already switching injectors, spend the extra $ and go with a larger turbo. tuning is the same price no matter what turbo.
Transmissions and clutches on the other hand,...:D
 

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98 Forester...what else
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Eclipse said:
If you want to run more than a bar of boost then go for the injectors.

If you do then either trailer there or swap them in the parking lot. That's like 50% more fuel than stock. I can think of a lot of problems you'll have trying to drive it.
Interesting. Mike @ Gruppe-S set max boost around 17.x lbs for the Momentum Turbo. He said that they never went too far above 90% duty cycle with any of the tuning he did.
 

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Roo said:
Interesting. Mike @ Gruppe-S set max boost around 17.x lbs for the Momentum Turbo. He said that they never went too far above 90% duty cycle with any of the tuning he did.
There's your answer. It's where you and the tuner feel safe running the injectors. Hell, back in my DSM days we used to run the stock injectors static with no problems. Keeping injectors under 90% duty cyclye is probably a great marketing scheme promoted by RC injectors to sell more aftermarket injectors. I'm kidding here but I don't know where that originated. The Mustang crowd simply bumps fuel pressure when running out of injectors. It's cheaper than 8 new injectors even though injectors for the Fords are relatively cheap.

For engine safety sake a tuner will probably cover their butt and recommend injectors when IDCs are above %85 or %90.

Injectors and plugs are similiar in install difficulty. If you run the modded injectors without tuning, you could foul the plugs and end up needing to replace them. Just a thought.

Frank
 
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