You need to make your own decision...you're a BIG boy. If you want a Subaru, you get a CVT. You want a Honda, you get a CVT. If you don't like the thought of a CVT, then buy something else without one. I have had a number of CVT's over the years dating back to 2003 and never an issue with any of my CVTs. Subaru is know to make one of the best CVTs for whatever it's worth. Nissan is the worst. My first Subaru was a 2013 and never had any issues with that one either.
To CVT or not CVT
My hesitation to buy a Subaru Forester and Honda CRV has been their use of the CVT transmissions. I have read ad nauseam the pros and cons from individuals, but the following article told me more than I have read on the Subaru forum, including one poster who challenged my concern that the CVT's usually had to be replaced, not repaired. The following article supports my concerns: https://certifiedtransmissionrepair.com/cvt-transmissions-pros-cons/
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Interesting article. I feel confident that CVT technology will improve with time.
I concur, but I am skeptical at this time. I still may purchase a Forester, but I am also interested in the Mazda CX5, considering that they plan an option of a 4 banger with turbo with a 230-250 hp rating. That could somewhat be a substitute for the loss of the Forester turbo. I am keeping an open mind, but the decisions are greater than any I have had to make in over 50 years of purchasing vehicles, thanks in part to the plethora of information on the web about various vehicles (some beneficial, others questionable).
Yes, I realize that I have that option, which I shall fully explore before I decide. I WILL make MY decision.
@navydoc-fmf,
Thanks for the article.
My 2012 I bought as a CPO runs out of warranty next year and I've been looking around for options.
Like you, I have some serious reservations about the CVT, and thanks to your article, I now know why I was unable to find anyone who has had a rebuilt CVT.
You can't rebuild something that self-destructs on failure.
My concern is to the resale value of a car that is running out of warranty, and how much a required replacement of an extremely expensive component will reduce that. While a new car owner can get a transmission replaced for free (or a small deductible) a resale owner may be dissuaded from buying a used car which might have a required replacement repair that could cost more than the value of the car. My opinion is that at some point this will affect what has been a stellar reason to buy a Subaru - Resale value. This may not be a major concern for you, and if you sell or trade it while still under warranty, perhaps not a concern at all.
In Subaru's favor, their CVT seems better than most, but unfortunately, if you read feedback on problems, it seems like the Subaru build quality has suffered in the later model years. Some have suggested it isn't worth owning a Subaru that doesn't have a warranty, due to their complexity and repair expense.
For those reasons, I've been looking at other AWD alternatives as well. In my case, AWD is a requirement, not an option.
I took a test drive in a Hyundai Tucson, which is very similar in size to the Forester, and I was impressed.
It had a regular fueled turbo with a 7 speed DCT. (Dual Clutch Transmission).
I'd be interested what you think about the Mazda.
Thanks for the article.
My 2012 I bought as a CPO runs out of warranty next year and I've been looking around for options.
Like you, I have some serious reservations about the CVT, and thanks to your article, I now know why I was unable to find anyone who has had a rebuilt CVT.
You can't rebuild something that self-destructs on failure.
My concern is to the resale value of a car that is running out of warranty, and how much a required replacement of an extremely expensive component will reduce that. While a new car owner can get a transmission replaced for free (or a small deductible) a resale owner may be dissuaded from buying a used car which might have a required replacement repair that could cost more than the value of the car. My opinion is that at some point this will affect what has been a stellar reason to buy a Subaru - Resale value. This may not be a major concern for you, and if you sell or trade it while still under warranty, perhaps not a concern at all.
In Subaru's favor, their CVT seems better than most, but unfortunately, if you read feedback on problems, it seems like the Subaru build quality has suffered in the later model years. Some have suggested it isn't worth owning a Subaru that doesn't have a warranty, due to their complexity and repair expense.
For those reasons, I've been looking at other AWD alternatives as well. In my case, AWD is a requirement, not an option.
I took a test drive in a Hyundai Tucson, which is very similar in size to the Forester, and I was impressed.
It had a regular fueled turbo with a 7 speed DCT. (Dual Clutch Transmission).
I'd be interested what you think about the Mazda.
Too much information can be paralyzing which appears to be happening to you my friend. In sales, we always say to never give a person more than 3 choices or they will have great difficulty in making a decision or won't. The Internet can be friend or foe and a lot of info on the net is not always accurate even though it "appears" to come from a "reputable" source. If you have been buying cars for the last 50+ years than I can only guess your age but the CVT may outlive you:surprise:I am keeping an open mind, but the decisions are greater than any I have had to make in over 50 years of purchasing vehicles, thanks in part to the plethora of information on the web about various vehicles (some beneficial, others questionable).
:grin2:
The CX-5 is a VERY nice vehicle with solid power and a strong conventional tranny. I almost bought one for my daughter (and would consider again) but she fell in love with the 19 Forester Sport and never looked back:wink2:
Too much information can be paralyzing which appears to be happening to you my friend.
This. Having seen the OP start numerous threads expressing profound impatience and fretting about making the CORRECT decision, I agree completely.
navydoc-fmf, difficult as it may be, try to relax and be patient. Buying a car isn't a permanent decision. You're not marrying it. Chill a bit. Have a cup of tea. Distract yourself with something else. The models you want will show up at dealerships. Just wait.
Then compare. Try them out. Pick one. Don't worry about it.
Mazda is an underrated manufacturer. They make some pretty decent stuff.The CX-5 is a VERY nice vehicle with solid power and a strong conventional tranny. I almost bought one for my daughter (and would consider again) but she fell in love with the 19 Forester Sport and never looked back:wink2:
Big difference in Honda vs Subaru CVT. One is belt driven, Subaru’s is chain.My hesitation to buy a Subaru Forester and Honda CRV has been their use of the CVT transmissions. I have read ad nauseam the pros and cons from individuals, but the following article told me more than I have read on the Subaru forum, including one poster who challenged my concern that the CVT's usually had to be replaced, not repaired. The following article supports my concerns: https://certifiedtransmissionrepair.com/cvt-transmissions-pros-cons/
In the early days, the metal bands/belts would fatigue due to heat and flex cycles. Develop cracks and issues. This was in GM/Saturn/Nissan applications and gave this type a bad name. Since then the technologies perhaps matured to the point Honda has put their foot in the game. Appears to be fundamentally the same system... but perhaps a change to alloys or other tech and Honda things its good enough to carry their name. Im unsure. But Ive not heard major issues cropping up...???
Subaru’s chain drive has never had a fault that Ive seen. Ive seen reports of over 200k. Its their valuing system from most things Ive seen in the forums. Its unclear how widespread, doesn’t seem like worryingly high percentage either. Later designs supposedly got improvements, and they extended warranty.
The smooth gear changes, no hunting and seeking lurches, and efficiency finally converted me from a MT when I would never own a conventional AT.
If you want a conventional Auto, RAV4 still has your back.
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From the article in your link:
“Today, the majority of manufacturers offer at least one model vehicle that uses the CVT Transmission.”
It’s difficult for me to understand why, if the article’s summation is correct, more and more manufacturers’ vehicles are being delivered with CVT’s if the average life expectantly is 100K miles. The average length of vehicle ownership in the US is almost 7 years now, with a considerable number of those vehicles easily surpassing 100K miles.
When I was in my teens (the “fabulous 1960’s”), local repair shops rebuilt starters, generators, alternators, etc. It would be a challenge to find a rebuild shop for those components in most communities today. That’s because it’s more cost effective to have a central rebuilding facility and “broadcast sell” rebuilt units through parts houses.
In all fairness, I’d be curious to see some qualified opinions on the rebuilding and servicing of the more modern 8, 9 and 10 gear automatics like ZF manufacturers, as well as dual-clutch automatics. I’d wager those aren’t inexpensive to rework, either.
Don’t get me wrong... I’m not attempting to steer you in any direction. I’ll just say that, on the Internet, you can find what appears to be qualified information on just about anything you research, leading in whatever direction you want to lean.
As we all know, no vehicle is the very best of everything. Weigh your options, and make the decision you’re the most comfortable with...
Good luck in whatever you decide.
“Today, the majority of manufacturers offer at least one model vehicle that uses the CVT Transmission.”
It’s difficult for me to understand why, if the article’s summation is correct, more and more manufacturers’ vehicles are being delivered with CVT’s if the average life expectantly is 100K miles. The average length of vehicle ownership in the US is almost 7 years now, with a considerable number of those vehicles easily surpassing 100K miles.
When I was in my teens (the “fabulous 1960’s”), local repair shops rebuilt starters, generators, alternators, etc. It would be a challenge to find a rebuild shop for those components in most communities today. That’s because it’s more cost effective to have a central rebuilding facility and “broadcast sell” rebuilt units through parts houses.
In all fairness, I’d be curious to see some qualified opinions on the rebuilding and servicing of the more modern 8, 9 and 10 gear automatics like ZF manufacturers, as well as dual-clutch automatics. I’d wager those aren’t inexpensive to rework, either.
Don’t get me wrong... I’m not attempting to steer you in any direction. I’ll just say that, on the Internet, you can find what appears to be qualified information on just about anything you research, leading in whatever direction you want to lean.
As we all know, no vehicle is the very best of everything. Weigh your options, and make the decision you’re the most comfortable with...
Good luck in whatever you decide.
The OP needs to drive some of these cars. From the bunch of threads started, it seems that the OP is analyzing a ton of info, concerned dealers don't have the car he wants, but doesn't want to check out other dealers. Thats all fine, but a ton of the info is completely irrelevant if they don't like the car.This. Having seen the OP start numerous threads expressing profound impatience and fretting about making the CORRECT decision, I agree completely.
navydoc-fmf, difficult as it may be, try to relax and be patient. Buying a car isn't a permanent decision. You're not marrying it. Chill a bit. Have a cup of tea. Distract yourself with something else. The models you want will show up at dealerships. Just wait.
Then compare. Try them out. Pick one. Don't worry about it.
Sitting in a car can knock it out of the running in 10 seconds flat, some cars i've driven 1000 feet and decided I don't like it. My mother's Rogue's CVT made my wife sick to her stomach in less than 5 minutes of driving, but my subaru one is OK for her. Point being, there is a lot of subjective points that the OP will need to find out for himself.
If you do too much research up front you convince yourself of what you should buy and when you drive it you may feel too invested in that particular car to make a clear decision. I felt that way somewhat with this purchase. I was very well invested in the CX-5 I spent 2 very long test drives trying to convince myself I should buy it despite not really loving it.
Thank you for your comments. I shall continue to read all I can and drive as many vehicles as I can, and only then I will decide. My decision may be correct or an absolute failure, but that is the chances one takes when buying anything. As long as the vehicle suits my personal desires and is competent, I will be happy.
CVT can certainly be repaired, they are simpler than geared auto even, but at the same time new enough that most shops don't do them yet. Give it a few years I'd bet there will be more shops working on them.
That said, majority of shops don't actually repair your geared auto either, they just send it out to specialized transmission rebuilders, or advice you to drop in one from wreck yard.
That said, majority of shops don't actually repair your geared auto either, they just send it out to specialized transmission rebuilders, or advice you to drop in one from wreck yard.
Agreed...
It’s just not cost effective to have individual shops do the actual rebuilding of transmissions these days.
It’s just not cost effective to have individual shops do the actual rebuilding of transmissions these days.
Please, let's keep this thread on track with The ethic of our community. Differing opinions are fine, but we don't support attacks on those who differ. A few such posts have already been disappeared.
I have a 2011 Altima coupe with CVT has 213k on it still going strong!
There are also some driver skill requirements in a DCT driven car, and just like bad habits in a CVT will result in premature failure, driving a DCT poorly can reduce their life expectancy. For the type of driving I do, a DCT would work well.
From personal experience, the Tucson was fun to drive, something I can't say about the new Forester. I did not like it.
I am still looking and that's fun for me.
@navydoc-fmf - Please post if you find something you like.
From personal experience, the Tucson was fun to drive, something I can't say about the new Forester. I did not like it.
I am still looking and that's fun for me.
@navydoc-fmf - Please post if you find something you like.
I am not sure about the information that suggests that Mazda CX5 will be offering a turbo engine for 2019 with 230-250 hp. If that is the case, I shall wait until that trim appears at dealers. I really liked the way the 2018 Cx5 Grand Touring handled, but would like the additional power. After driving the Forester, RAV4, and the proposed CX5, I shall consider all facts and make my decision. If I am not satisfied with any of the vehicles, I shall look at the Honda CivicSi HFP, although it does not have the features of the SUV's, the fun part may influence my decision. In the meantime, I shall wait, wait, and wait some more.
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