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^ Hey, I resemble that statement! :laugh::icon_redface:

Unfortunately, as a whole, we're rather gullible - and I'm definitely guilty of that, too.

We're rather easily swayed by the words of the masses. The more something is repeated, the more we mindlessly buy into it and, ironically, then propagate it ourselves.

It saddens me that we're not smarter consumers. :crying:
 

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Just my two cents from the other side of the pond:

It's evidenced since a lot of years by a lot of tests by different European consumer assiations, car magazins and automobil assiciations, that till now no all season tire could and can beat a good, dedicated winter tire under real wintry circumstances.

That concerns especially the braking distance in snow and on ice, the traction in snow and on ice and the cornering stability in snow and on ice.

That's valid for all tire brands.

Till yet it's proven in every above mentioned test, that every all season tire is a compromise.

Till yet no tire brand could develop the jack of all trades device.

Naming all the above mentioned tests would become too verbosely here.
 

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2017 Forester Touring 2.5 CVT
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Discussion Starter #64 (Edited)
Landsail beats Michelin ? surprise result in Finnish tyre test : Tyrepress

The results of this comparison of eco-focused and comfort tyres didn’t favour the green products. According to the ADAC, “the so-called eco models only offered slight advantages in the environmental and economic criteria, however in wet conditions they consistently showed disadvantages when compared with the comfort tyres.”

Tyre Tests : Tyrepress

Pirelli launches first all-season tyre with ‘seal inside’
http://www.tyrepress.com/2015/02/pirelli-launches-first-all-season-tyre-with-seal-inside/
http://www.motorverso.com/portfolio-items/pirelli-cinturato-season-tyre-conquers-volcanic-challenge/
 

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^ I'm not convinced on that one - I think that's just a thinly veiled attempt to try to sell more All-Weather tires.

There's definitely one very, very real advantage to All-Weather tires, but I think they've gone way overboard and significantly downplayed the role of treadwear (particularly as a year-round service tire that will thus accumulate mileage much faster than a tire that is taken out-of-service at least seasonally) as well as very much focused on the worst possible-performance of the other tire genres while highlighting the best-possible outcome for All-Weather tires.

Similarly, there's a lot of propagation of the common myths....

I think that instead of focusing on such broad overviews, given their consumer base, they would have done the consumer more service by focusing more on traits - strengths and weaknesses - of specific tires.

But alas, being a commercial source, the usual "consumer beware" label should apply.

I just had higher hopes for them. <sigh>
 

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Discussion Starter #69
@TSi+WRX
I agree. Given the wast variety of tires (why are there so many if not for marketing purposes), & scant information from manufacturers, it is a monumental task to perform any meaningful comparative analysis.
Actual testing is expensive & involved & practically never involves testing across the tire's lifespan.
To further complicate the issue, tires have different names around the world making the results if the test performed elsewhere not really usable in many cases.
So, regretfully we are close to the level of educated guess when it comes to making a decision.
I also agree that this point is totally overlooked, the tire that will perform adequately for the conditions when new, may fail you miserably when particularly worn.
In this respect WDS is the right idea & as much as I'm against too much regulations, I think all tire manufacturers should be required to do something like that.
Additionally, the legal tire depth requirement, in my opinion, needs to go from a penny test to a quarter test at least & the tire age indicator (similar to what's available for meat for example) should be also required.
 

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Discussion Starter #70 (Edited)
Of course we all know this, but..

Determining the Right PSI - Tire Review Magazine



Treading Close to Limits

"In the Consumer Reports test, they flooded a test track with water 0.05-inch deep. A car and a full-sized pickup truck made full emergency stops from 70 mph. Stopping distance and time were measured for three different tire depths: new tires, tires with 2/32-inch tread and tires with 4/32-inch tread.
The stopping distance for the car with 2/32-inch tread depth tires was nearly double that of the car equip*ped with new tires. To put that into perspective, when the car with the 2/32-inch tires had braked for the distance required to stop the car with new tires, it was still going 55 mph.
Even with the 4/32-inch tread depth tires, the car was still going 45 mph at the point where new tires brought the car to a halt. The results with the truck were similar, with the stopping distances being even longer.
The tests conducted by Tire Rack again used new tires, tires at 4/32-inch depth and tires at 2/32-inch. Panic stops were again made from 70 mph with a sedan and pickup truck on asphalt covered by 0.05-inch of water.
With new tires, the car traveled 195 feet before coming to a stop; with 4/32-inch tires, it went 290 feet. The same vehicle with 2/32-inch tires traveled 379 feet, nearly doubling the stopping distance of the car with new tires. In fact, the sedan with 2/32-inch tread depth was still going 44 mph when it reached the final stopping point of the 4/32-inch vehicle.
As in the Consumer Reports test, the pickup truck test provided longer stopping distances but similar ratios (255 feet, 378 feet and 500 feet, respectively), and the pickup with 2/32-inch tread depth tires was still going 47 mph when it passed the stopping point of the truck with 4/32-inch. Tire Rack’s tests can be found at tirerack.com by searching for “panic stopping."

"Because tread depth is so important for snow traction, winter tires often start with deeper tread depths than all-season or summer tires and should be removed when tread depth reaches 5/32-inch if snow traction is a concern. At 5/32-inch and below, the tire is still usable as the equivalent of an all-season tire, but it will offer no real performance advantage in snow."

http://www.tirereview.com/treading-close-limits/
 

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^ It's interesting that various sources still maintains that falling below the ~6/32" mark is a big worry for mobility in snow rather than the actual incrementally larger dangers in terms of hydroplaning/slushplaning and overall wet-weather performance.
 

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^ Me too. :smile: And I don't doubt that you do it, too :wink: !

But it continues to puzzle me why the manufacturers keep pushing things based on winter mobility with winter tires when we now have data that shows it's really the wet/slush we have to *really* worry about.

Do they think that we consumers are just too stupid to understand?
 

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^ Me too. :smile: And I don't doubt that you do it, too :wink: !

But it continues to puzzle me why the manufacturers keep pushing things based on winter mobility with winter tires when we now have data that shows it's really the wet/slush we have to *really* worry about.

Do they think that we consumers are just too stupid to understand?
Unless I'm mistaken, Consumer Reports home office is in upper New York, where they get a lot of snow and it's on the ground basically all winter, so snow traction is a bigger issue to them than rain traction is. So they're almost giving a "local" report much of the time. It's interesting to see their review of lawn mowers ... they always say to cut your grass "high", seemingly not realizing that many southern grasses (which extend well into the midwest) need to be cut short to look right and grow right. As an analogy, sometimes on the morning news programs it's almost like watching local news in NYC. So I suppose they tend to emphasize conditions where they are, not nationally.
 

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That's definitely a fair thought - however....

Given that winter traction for the vast, vast majority of North American drivers is not exclusively about snow and ice traction paired with the fact that the decline in wet traction (to include slush) is much more precipitous ( REF: http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/3994449-post9.html ) and that this decline in performance hits an aspect of weakness that's already noted of the winter-tire genre, this becomes essentially a double-whammy on safety that few consumers are aware of.

When the reason for purchasing winter tires is frequently cited to be "safety," I find this not only ironic, but highly illogical.

While I am definitely one who agrees with your line of reasoning that specific-to-geographic-area needs should be a focal-point of the consumer's purchase decision, I don't see this particular aspect of the debate as being region-specific.

For most of North America, winter presents with quite a bit of wet and slush - not just when it's cold out, but also during the transitional seasons both after as well as before the typical winter-tire user has mounted their winter rubber.
 

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Unless I'm mistaken, Consumer Reports home office is in upper New York, where they get a lot of snow and it's on the ground basically all winter, so snow traction is a bigger issue to them than rain traction is. So they're almost giving a "local" report much of the time. It's interesting to see their review of lawn mowers ... they always say to cut your grass "high", seemingly not realizing that many southern grasses (which extend well into the midwest) need to be cut short to look right and grow right. As an analogy, sometimes on the morning news programs it's almost like watching local news in NYC. So I suppose they tend to emphasize conditions where they are, not nationally.
The CR tire and auto testing center is in central Connecticut. Their HQ is on Long Island.
 
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