[philbytx]

Going to do my first tire rotation (LF to LR and RF to RR).
Is there a single jacking point that I can use to raise one complete side for the swap?

If not, I do have two trolley jacks but don't have a pinchweld adapter for them .

I also have 4 jack stands so would it just be easier to raise the whole car and put jack stands in the appropriate spots??

If so, what are the appropriate spots?

THanks guys...

 

[Peaty]

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2673

That's may help some

 

[bullmtnbiker]

Peaty, one thing that I've been puzzled by is the proper procedure to get all four wheels up in the air. Is it:

1) block front wheels
2) lift rear by diff
3) put jack stands under rear suspension
4) lift front at lifting point
5) place jack stands under front suspension

It's having the one part of the car up and the other on the ground that somewhat bothers me. I've been too chicken to put the whole car up thus far so I've done my tire changes one half car at a time.

 

[Peaty]

I rarely ever have all my wheels off the ground. If I had to do it that would be the way. Doing a tire rotation I lift one side at a time and swap front to back. I have the pinch weld adapter and can lift the whole side off the ground from either the front or rear designated spot on the pinch weld. I suppose if you chock front and rear wheels on the oppsite side you are lifting (front of front tire and rear of rear tire) and use the OEM jack at the point between the front and rear tires on the pinch weld; you could lift the whole side and for safety put jack stands under the car then do the swap. Myself I never trust the OEM jack. All this needs to be done on very solid ground though that's for sure.

 

[philbytx]

Thanks Peaty....
That's exactly what I was looking for....
I am going to jack up the whole car and then can do all the wheels at once!!

Thank you again...you're the best

 

[bullmtnbiker]

Thanks, Peaty. I guess my tire changes thus far have been with snow tires and the all seasons. When the weather gets up to 50 degrees, I swap out the snows and put the all seasons. I use the snows when heading up to Hood for skiing. Given that we're in Portland this means I swap the tires somewhat regularly. I've gotten it down to about 20 minutes for the swap doing the front half / back half change over. It would definitely be cool to have all four tires off the ground to do the swap.

 

[DennisC]

Repeat after me:
ANTI-SIEZE
ANTI-SIEZE
ANTI-SIEZE
Use anti-sieze on the lug threads (do not get it on anything else!) - makes this little chore a lot easier and faster. Everything lives longer - especially your temper.

 

[Peaty]

Repeat after me:
ANTI-SIEZE
ANTI-SIEZE
ANTI-SIEZE
Use anti-sieze on the lug threads (do not get it on anything else!) - makes this little chore a lot easier and faster. Everything lives longer - especially your temper.

Its' a bad idea to use anti seize on lugnuts. The torque spec for lug nuts is based on dry clean threads. Putting any type of lubricant on them will change the amount of force on the stud and make it more likely it will snap or be stressed too much. While putting them on by hand will streatch them if you ever have someone use an impact gun that will snap the stud.

answer I got from a tire expert:

Anti-seize on a lug nut is a very bad idea !!!

Here's why: Bolts or studs provide clamping force by being purposely stretched. Most torque specs bring a bolt well within its elastic limit. Then when loosened they will return to their original length and can be safely reused (Some bolts, including many head bolts, are purposely stretched past their elastic limit, and can not be reused). The torque wrench is the most convenient-but not the most accurate-method of properly stretching automotive bolts. Engineers spend hours correlating the proper bolt stretch to the required turning effort. About 90% of a torque specification is used to overcome friction; only 10% of the specified twisting effort provides clamping force.

It is no surprise then that most lubricant tables recommend a 40-45% reduction of applied torque when using anti-seize on a bolt. So, a lug nut coated with anti-seize should be tightened to a maximum of 49 ft-lbs. Tightening this lug nut to 85 ft-lbs. means it is now over-torqued by 73%! Considering that most torque specs stretch a bolt to within 70% of its elastic limit, over-truing by 73% will easily send the bolt or stud well beyond its elastic limit-and could be dangerously close to its failure point.

One time at an auto-x there was a person that had only 4 of the 5 lugnuts on thier Subaru installed on each wheel for some strange reason. Maybe one of them was the lock style lug and they thought it was a pain to reinstall it while swapping out tires I don't know. Anyway, they made a sharp turn and both outside tires went flying off. All 8 of the studs on the one side sheared off from the force. That was with just one out of 5 bolts missing, I'd hate to think what overstressing all the bolts would do...

 

[philbytx]

No Anti Seize!

Peaty is absolutely correct...

Just clean off the threads and taper (I use a small wire brush) and put them back DRY!

 

[bullmtnbiker]

I don't put anything on my lugnuts. I do, however, use an impact wrench to take them off. I will also use the impact wrench (at a much lower setting) to spin them mostly on.

Also remember that the torque setting is only 68 ft lbs.

 

[Peaty]

I don't put anything on my lugnuts. I do, however, use an impact wrench to take them off. I will also use the impact wrench (at a much lower setting) to spin them mostly on.

Also remember that the torque setting is only 68 ft lbs.

That's exactly what I do too. Now that I have spline drives I put them on by hand though. I don't want to mess up the finish on the metal. Plus the tool they give you does not look too substantial for air tools

 

[bullmtnbiker]

That's exactly what I do too. Now that I have spline drives I put them on by hand though. I don't want to mess up the finish on the metal. Plus the tool they give you does not look too substantial for air tools

The spline drives from Suby Dude are pretty good. The tool seems pretty beefy, especially given the amount of surface area that is in contact with the tool.

 

[funkymonkey1002]

Just to bring back an old post, what do you does everyone who has directional tires do for rotation? Just front <->back? Should tires be remounted to the opposite side at some point?

 

[Subifreak]

Its' a bad idea to use anti seize on lugnuts. The torque spec for lug nuts is based on dry clean threads. Putting any type of lubricant on them will change the amount of force on the stud and make it more likely it will snap or be stressed too much. While putting them on by hand will streatch them if you ever have someone use an impact gun that will snap the stud.

answer I got from a tire expert:



One time at an auto-x there was a person that had only 4 of the 5 lugnuts on thier Subaru installed on each wheel for some strange reason. Maybe one of them was the lock style lug and they thought it was a pain to reinstall it while swapping out tires I don't know. Anyway, they made a sharp turn and both outside tires went flying off. All 8 of the studs on the one side sheared off from the force. That was with just one out of 5 bolts missing, I'd hate to think what overstressing all the bolts would do...

Agreed....stay clear of anti-sieze. :icon_cool:

 

[SubaJew]

Just to bring back an old post, what do you does everyone who has directional tires do for rotation? Just front <->back? Should tires be remounted to the opposite side at some point?

Answered in first post:

Going to do my first tire rotation (LF to LR and RF to RR).

You will always go front to rear, rear to front, never to the opposite side.

 

[Marty]

Answered in first post:You will always go front to rear, rear to front, never to the opposite side.

Since I've got the 2006 donut, I'll be doing a 4-tire front/back rotation, but I'm wondering how you do a 5-tire rotation with a full-size directional spare.

Do you do a 2-tire rotation on one side and a 3-tire rotation (using the spare) on the other side? If so, when you need the spare for an emergency, won't you have a 50%-50% chance of having to put the spare on the opposite side?

 

[SubaJew]

Even with the full sized spare you still only do a 4 tire rotation.
The spare is on a steel rim different than the alloys.
If you're anal like me, you get 2 spare alloys & do a 6 wheel rotation.
Keep one as a spare in the back, the other in the garage.
Front > Rear, Rear > Spares, Spares > Front.
If your flat is on the wrong directional side for the spare you're carrying, there's no problem driving on it in the wrong direction for short distances.
You can either go home for the other one, or if you're away, go to a tire shop and have them flip it on the rim so it's facing the right direction.

 

[Marty]

Even with the full sized spare you still only do a 4 tire rotation.
The spare is on a steel rim different than the alloys.
If you're anal like me, you get 2 spare alloys & do a 6 wheel rotation.
Keep one as a spare in the back, the other in the garage.
Front > Rear, Rear > Spares, Spares > Front.
If your flat is on the wrong directional side for the spare you're carrying, there's no problem driving on it in the wrong direction for short distances.
You can either go home for the other one, or if you're away, go to a tire shop and have them flip it on the rim so it's facing the right direction.

Thanks for the info, Boca. And, maybe in your case, Anal should be boldfaced and capitalized! :icon_biggrin: (Just pullin' your leg, of course :icon_razz

 

[bbottomley]

I lost track of my rotation due to an unexpected episode of snow tires. My fronts now seem to be down a bit lower than my backs. Which tends to wear faster, front or back?

 

[bbottomley]

Thanks for the info, Boca. And, maybe in your case, Anal should be boldfaced and capitalized! :icon_biggrin: (Just pullin' your leg, of course :icon_razz

In one recent PM exchange, I proved to be even more so than Boca.

Myers-Briggs INTJ!