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2017 Forester Premium CVT
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2017 Forester Premium 2.5I. A badge that says PZEV with a leaf is included on the right side of the tailgate right below the Forester badge. Was looking at some 2018 models the other day and noticed that the PZEV badge is not on the 2018's. I know that PZEV stands for Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle, but I'm wondering, was the badge just marketing, or did it actually mean something has changed for the 2018 models?
 

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2017 Forester Premium CVT
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for posting the 2018 specs Menel. Looks like PZEV is still the standard for the 2018's. You're probably right: Some marketing guy decided that folks don't care about it. Not sure that's so. Maybe they felt that they had to do something so you could differentiate the 2018 from the 2017 models visually. LOL
 

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Some marketing guy
I’ve always thought the notion behind these PZEV badges to be fairly riddiculous/nonsensical. If I had to guess, it was probably fabricated by some marketing person in the first place. I mean .... zero is an absolute; it can’t be partially achieved. Apparently it means the vehicle has no “evaporative” emissions ... but I guess ZEEV doesn’t sound as cool as PZEV??

Never made much sense to me. I wonder if they may have removed it because people just see the term as a form of greenwashing. I’ve always seen it as a silly marketing gimmick, mostly because the concept of “partially-zero” just seems like such a desperate overreach.
 

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The way I understand it, PZEV came about as a compromise between California Air Resources Board (CARB) and the auto industry to help fill a gap between Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicles (SULEV) and Zero Emissions Vehicles (ZEV).
 

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2015 Forester2.5i Premium CVT
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It's possible that the Forester no longer meets Californni's PZEV standards. Here's California's definition:

"PZEV – Partial Zero Emission Vehicle is a vehicle emissions rating within California’s exhaust emission standards. Cars that are certified as PZEVs meets the Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle exhaust emission stardard, has zero evaporative emissions from its fuel system and includes a 15 year / 150,000 mile warranty on the emissions system. PZEVs run on gasoline, yet offer extrememly clean emissions and an extended warranty and zero evaporative emissions. PZEVs have a Smog Rating of 9."

Here's The Forester's ratings; Smog=7.

https://www.driveclean.ca.gov/searchresults.php?year=2018&make=Subaru&model=Forester+AWD&x=42&y=10

Also, does the Forester have a 15 year/150,000 emissions warranty in California?
 

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2017 Forester Premium CVT
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Tinman, I agree that partial zero is ridiculous. It's either zero or it's not. Maybe it was zero in one part of the testing and not in another, hence partial zero? Rd Clark, thanks for posting the California numbers. If you look at the chart and go back to 2016, then look at 2017, and again at 2018, you'll see a decline in the greenhouse gas rating, and/or the smog rating. Especially for the XT. And the 2.5I, dropped from a 9 to a 7 in 2018. Same drive train. Different test conditions? Different mapping? Maybe the 2018 doesn't meet the California standards and that's why they dropped the badge.
 

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My 15 XTP did not come with the badge but the NA Forester did. But a lot of cars do not have the badge. The brochure says 2.5 Level 3/ SULev 30 2.0 Level 2

https://www.subaru.com/guides/forester/my18/Specifications


California adopted their LEV III light-duty vehicle emission standards in 2012. LEV III will further reduce vehicle emission limits to a fleet average level consistent with California’s current LEV II SULEV exhaust emission limit (and EPA’s Tier 2, Bin 2 exhaust emission limit) by 2025. LEV III implementation will begin with the 2015 model year. The LEV III criteria pollutant regulation was rolled out as part of the state’s Advanced Clean Cars Program that also includes greenhouse gas (GHG) standards for the 2017-2025 model years, as well as revised zero-emission vehicle (ZEV) requirements.
U.S. EPA Tier 3 and California LEV III Rulemakings | MECA
 

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My final comment is the following: who really cares whether their Forester has the badge or not???
 

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2018 Forester Premium 2.5 CVT
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My understanding of PZEV is that sometimes, there are zero harmful emissions produced. I rather liked the emblem on my 2010, also it served as a justification to park in "low emission vehicles only" spaces.
 

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2004 Forester XT Premium 4EAT
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I just wanted to add that the PZEV badge has been applied selectively mostly for marketing purposes for quite some time now. Some states got the badge (like California for instance), others did not, even though PZEV technology has been applied to all N/A Foresters - even those with federal emissions specs - since at least 2010.
 

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Why do some Foresters have Pzev and awd decals and some don't have 'awd'

How come some Foresters come with BOTH the PZEV decal and the 'AWD' under Subaru on the back and others like my 09 I just bought only have PZEV? Not a big deal, but just wondering. It may be silly, but I ordered a new PZEV decal because mine has the chrome all worn off and stuff.

Then today I noticed a similar body style Forester to my 09, but it had black handles. Mine has chrome handles. They make a lot of options I guess!
 

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PZEV - Merged threads

Significance of 2018 Subaru's losing PZEV badge

Executive Summary

It isn't just about a marketing badge. Those 4 letters gave Subaru's registered in CA and Section 177 states 15yr/150,000 emissions warranties.

These are the list of CA and Section 177 states
CA, CT, DE, ME, MA, MD, NJ, NY, OR, PA, RI, VT, and WA.

2017 Model Year Subaru's sold/registered in CA (and Section 177 states)
  • 15yr/150,000 CA PZEV emissions warranty
  • Other states have 8yr/80,000 Federal emissions warranty

2018 Model Year Subaru's sold/registered in CA (and Section 177 states)
  • 7yr/70,000 CA emissions warranty
  • Other states have 8yr/80,000 Federal emissions warranty

In 2017, CA (and section 177 states) had better emissions warranty than Federal. In 2018, CA (and section 177 states) have worse.

---- Previous Post ----

I looked very hard to get some written confirmation that the 2018 Forester is still PZEV certified.

I couldn't find anything.

I looked in the 2018 Forester Brochure here:
https://www.subaru.com/content/dam/...chures/2018/Forester/2018_Subaru_Forester.pdf

Under CA emissions it says for the 2.5i

LEV III/SULEV 30

PZEV vehicles need to meet SULEV standards, plus have zero evaporative emissions, plus have 15-year/150,000 mile warranty on emission control components (ECU, catalytic, etc.)

Reference to 15-year/150,000 mile emissions component warranty:
IMO the engine and design of the Forester is basically the same between 2017 and 2018, so from physical emissions standpoint they are likely the same. However they seem to have dropped PZEV certification, which means from a practical standpoint, folks lose the 15-year/150,000 mile warranty on the emissions systems. It kind of sucks that the loss of a "badge" (the only thing the consumer sees) means the loss of 7-year/70,000 miles on the emissions warranty (falling back to 8-year/80,000 miles).

If you happen to have confirmation that the 2018 Forester is PZEV-certified I would appreciate a pointer.

Update #1:

This database of which standards cars have met is further confirmation that the 2018 Forester (and other 2018 Subaru models) lost their PZEV certification:

For 2017 models, you see PZEV listed. For 2018 models, the emissions standards are mostly the same, just the PZEV certification was dropped. Since for the Forester, this isn't a redesign year, my interpretation is Subaru basically reduced our emission warranty (in CA and some other states) from 15-year/150,000 miles to 8-year/80,000 miles.

The states that adopted CA PZEV (including 15-year/150,000 miles emissions warranty) are Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington.

Reference:

2017 - Subaru Emissions Certifications
https://greenercars.org/greenercars...=2454&field_class_tid=All&field_year_tid=4826

2018 - Subaru Emissions Certifications
https://greenercars.org/greenercars...=2454&field_class_tid=All&field_year_tid=4827

Update #2:

This document definitively says that 2018MY Subaru's have lost their 15yr/150,000mi PZEV emissions warranty.
Subaru Vehicle Coverage Quick Reference Card


NOTE: Starting with the 2018MY and forward, Subaru vehicles will no longer have the PZEV 15 years 150,000-mile Performance
Defect Warranty
or the California Emissions Extended Defect Warranty of 8 years or 100,000 miles.Coverage is 7 yrs or 70,000 miles whichever occurs first.
Ironically CA PZEV (and the Section 177 states that adopted CA rules instead of Federal rules) used to provide more stringent standards and longer warranties. It seems now there is some transition away from PZEV and 2018 is the year where CA (and the Section 177 states) will get WORSE warranty than Federal. CA/Sect177 will get 7yr/70,000 emissions defect warranty instead of Federal 8yr/80,000 warranty.

This all started as a simple question of whether the Forester was still PZEV, but it led down a rabbit hole of emissions standards before I could figure out what was really going on.

It may not be a huge deal if one doesn't have an emissions issue (these are usually expensive to fix but rare), but I didn't see this warranty change mentioned anywhere in my searches for differences between 2018 and 2017 model years (except for the document referenced above). If would have been nice if someone mentioned the ramifications of losing the PZEV badge. Something along the lines of 2018 is $X more than 2017 and you lose 8yr/80,000mi of emissions warranty, and you get updated XYZ.

Hope this helps somebody else understand the warranty situation.
 

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Heh, the first thing i did when i got my Forester was to remove the dumb PZEV badge. Something about the "Partial Zero" doublespeak. :grin2:
 
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