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2008 forester XT 4EAT
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I made the pro tune and the tuner told me that he could not hit more than 1.3bar, he thinks that I have boost leak or the turbo is not in his best.
I went home and start investigating and that's what I found.
First off all changed the tmic from Chinese one to sti one, found leak in the intercooler lines and fix that, and replaced some vacuum lines that looks little bit worn.
After all those things yet I could not hit even 17 psi for a second than it drops to 13.
Checked again today for leaks and found nothing.
So now is the question where is the problem?
I'm with 3 port grimmspeed bcs, and read that the duty cycle should decrease 30% from the OEM bcs, which mean that if the OEM duty cycle is on 50% I should decrease to let's say 35% or raise it to 70%.
Now my max duty cycle is on 85% after the tune.
Tomorrow I will try driving without the line that goes to the wastegate to see if the turbocan rais the boost to 19-20 psi.
How to continue after ward?


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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Ok checked today with the hose disconnect from the wastegate and the car get 10 psi with halt throttle and raising fast to 19-20 psi, and also feels very strong very fast like before someone catch me from behind before and now he let me free.
So I think it is something with the grimmspeed bcs, now it has 3 ports when I check it with air flowing in to port 2, the air comes out from port 3. those are the 2 ports that goes to the turbo and wastegate, here is my question....if all the air that comes from the turbo goes straight to the wastegate actuator how it will rais the boost?
I thought that the ECU gives the command to the bcs to open and release air to the wastegate when I'm hitting boost target ,not to close in order to reach boost target, where is my mistake?

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I would start over by providing a list of all your mods/upgrades.

Then post images of all your wastegate-related tables.

To better understand how 3-port wastegate (boost control) solenoids work, read these references:
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced Engine Tuning/3 port 4 port boost.html

https://www.perrin.com/blog/post/boost-control-systems-explained-part-2

http://www.ardideas.com/Wastegate-adjustment-a-closer-look_b_17.html (ignore the Volvo-specific info)

http://stratifiedauto.com/blog/what...ost-curve-can-tell-us-about-our-turbo-setups/ (Ford Focus ST-specific but has good real-world examples)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ok so this is my upgrade list:
3" catless tbe.
K&N inbox AF.
STI tmic.
3 port grimmspeed bcs.
Stock turbo.
Silicone inlet.
Grimmspeed aos.
18" wheels.
It's 4eat so I have external trany oil cooler and mishi rad.
Engine oil cooler.
Wallbro 255 fuel pump.
I post the boost target map and max duty cycle what else do you need so you can help me?

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I tried to lighten your picture up and some of the dark cells in the boost target table are not visible...



Please post a better picture for boost target and show these tables:



Also need to see Boost Limit (Fuel Cut).

We won’t worry about the boost target compensation and boost control disable tables for now.
 

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Anyone else have initial impressions? The tuner I’m consulting with provided a much simpler way to tune boost that goes against this “conventional” method seen here. I’ll provide more details once we see the other tables.

I’m also going to experiment with some different WGDC values based on things I’ve read within the past day to see if I can get quicker spool.

This will probably turn into a crash course wastegate/boost tuning workshop.

One thing this alternate method will illustrate is the goal is to get close to target boost, but never actually reach it, which minimizes overboosting/spiking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The wastegate freq I don't have. So I sent you all the other you asked me, please if you tell me that one of the values in some maps is not like it should be tell me also what the main designation of it, because I don't really know every map and it's functioning.


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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
How do I make real screen shots...? I take the photo with my phone and the ecuflash is on my laptop?

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WGS Frequency is a table I custom defined based on information posted over on RR. Just wanted to make sure you did or didn’t have it. It can be used for an aftermarket wastegate solenoid (GS, Cobb, etc.) to further optimize it, but you can do that later after we get your boost behavior sorted.

Agreed with @mosquitocoils but seeing all those maps in group screenshots are fine to establish a baseline, it’s just to see what the values are. Not much needs to really be touched in the TD tables right now, as it looks like the tuner reduced some of the sensitivity, which is fine.

Doing a little more testing and going to sleep for a few hours.

Since you have a stock TD04, don’t expect that you will be hitting 19 PSI at full load near the top of the RPM range, as it’s not going to happen.

Prepare to get very familiar with P0244, wastegate solenoid code that indicates overboosting. You’ll get this when you hit or exceed your boost target and sometimes even if you don’t reach boost target.
 

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I have no idea why vacuum values are being targeted, which to me seems silly.

Anyway, to start out, set your entire target boost table to your maximum boost you want to achieve +.5-1.5. Mine is set to 19.61 with a goal of comfortably reaching a max. of 18-18.5 PSI.

Go into your initial wastegate duty table and set the whole thing to 20%, put 0 for the 0 row and 0 column.

Then go into your max wastegate duty table and set it to 30%, putting 0 again for 0 row and 0 column.

What we are essentially doing is using wastegate duty cycle to properly control the wastegate and shape your boost curve (which is exactly what the wastegate solenoid is supposed to do).

What you will do from here is write this to a new tune binary, flash it and then use RR Logger to log Primary WGDC & Primary WGDC Maximum, as well as Manifold Relative Sea Level Pressure with PSI relative sea level units. Other stuff to log would be Requested Torque, Knock Sum, IAM (1-byte), RPM, Throttle Plate Opening Angle (2-byte) and any others of your choice.

Here are all the ones I use:


Monitor and just watch what your PSI is while you do acceleration pulls. At first it will be low. Add 5% to initial and max WGDC tables. Always keep a +10 cushion between the two tables. The ECM will adapt and add a bit more boost as you do more pulls.

As you get closer to your target, you’ll then stop increasing by 5 and increase by 2 or 1 for each table.

If you overshoot and trigger P0244, immediately stop the car, reduce the values, write and flash the new binary and repeat testing until it’s stable.

You can log pulls at any point, but I usually wait until I get close before I capture logs.

After you are satisfied with the boost levels and boost stability for various types of pulls, you can then start raising or lowering individual cells to your taste.

So to summarize, instead of setting different boost target values for individual cells and managing WGDC to match, you simply set a global boost target. Then adjust both WGDC tables to control and shape your boost curve globally at first, then granularly as you become comfortable with how it works.

That’s it in a nutshell!
 

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Key tips for dealing with P0244 and P030X CELs when testing:
*If you get severe enough misfires to trigger P030X, lower your global boost target and your WGDC table values correspondingly
*If you get P0244, lower your WGDC table values

Don’t get greedy, I know it’s hard when you want to see 19.5 PSI. I threw a P0301 earlier this morning but I already know cylinder #1 is weaker than the others due to having compression and leakdown tests done last year.

Make sure your OL fueling is solid and MAF scaling is in reasonably good order.

If you get any moderate/high load knock when testing, immediately stop and confirm mechanicals (especially watch for vacuum or boost leaks), fueling, air and spark are all good, then reduce boost target & WGDC table values and carefully resume. Know your car.

If you don’t agree with this process or are not comfortable with it, don’t do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
2 questions I have.
1.how do i know that the problem is tuning and not mechanical?
I looked 10 times on the grimmspeed installation schema and seems that my connections are good
2.i already find on 85% max duty cycle and targeting 19 psi and I'm not hitting this target, so what will help me to low all the duty cycle to 30% and start over again?
And may be another question when you say make the all map 19 psi boost target you mean the all map from the half throttle till 100%?

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2 questions I have.
1.how do i know that the problem is tuning and not mechanical?
I looked 10 times on the grimmspeed installation schema and seems that my connections are good
We’ll use this boost tuning method to confirm the wastegate solenoid is functional or not.

2.i already find on 85% max duty cycle and targeting 19 psi and I'm not hitting this target, so what will help me to low all the duty cycle to 30% and start over again?
As I said before, your TD04 isn’t going to push 19 PSI at the RPM range you are asking it to. The boost targets in the surrounding areas are far too low and so you are restricting it. If you don’t know how to set boost targets and WGDC tables the traditional way, you might as well try it this way. This is a learning opportunity.

And may be another question when you say make the all map 19 psi boost target you mean the all map from the half throttle till 100%?
I forgot to mention that my tuner advised me to change the leftmost column header to 0 and change the header of the column to the immediate right to a slightly lower value (in both WGDC tables) of your choice. Set this to a throttle percentage threshold under which you do not want to boost, for fuel economy. It makes sense to match this your CL>OL throttle percentage threshold table elsewhere.

This is open source and it’s your tune, so you can choose to do or not do this part. Experiment!

This is what the three tables should look like on your first try:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ok first try on my way to work 40% on the initial and 50 on the max duty cycle hardly gave me 6-7 psi I will make another one tomorrow after work and see, I hardly suspect the grimmspeed bcs.
In addition I tightened the wastegate spring almost to the end and nothing.

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Put the wastegate actuator arm back to factory spec.

You can swap the factory solenoid back in to see if it behaves differently.

If you wish to continue, raise 5% again for initial/max WGDC tables until you see 15 PSI max., then use smaller increases until you reach 17-18 PSI max.

Pushing 19 PSI on a stock TD04-13T is not a good idea.

By the way, what grade and type (brand/name) of oil are you using? Oil has a big impact on turbo performance, especially those with journal/thrust bearings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
i made a pull today , it's not till the red line cause i'm out off roud but we can see the boost and wastegate duty.
i'm on my laptop not succeeding aplouding the log file, the line down the page that says "Drag and Drop File Upload" isn't working for me. (hope you understand my english it's not my lang i'm doing my best).
how can i uploud the file so you can see?
thanks.
 

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Create an account on datazap.me and upload it there, then post the link to your uploaded log here.
 
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