I am really torn. this will be our first subaru. Our only requirements were great crash test ratings, fuel economy, and AWD so the forester seems to be it. We can buy a new 2009 2.5X for $21,164 or a used 2009 2.5X premium PZEV. We like the extras in the used. It has 25,800 miles on it for $19,900. It has a roof rack, tinted windows, moon roof, like the exterior color better and other little extras that the new one does not. I thought we were decided but i have some concerns. the used is affected by the recall and has not been fixed yet. Will it really lower the gas mileage? Also, it was rear ended. car fax says moderately but car fax also says no structural/frame damage. Any concerns with that? we have never bought a used vehicle that had a recall or the was in a moderate accident. It was a fleet vehicle and has been serviced right around every 5,000 miles. We do get the remainder of the 3yr 36,000 B2B and the 5yr, 60000 PT warranty supposedly. They would have to show proof of that first. Any thoughts?
new or used 2009 forester?
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You would have to be crazy in my opinion to go with the used on here. I personally would go for new. Obviously getting stripped down could become an issue in a year or two. Whoever had the car for the first 25K miles has had time to shorten its service life.
Welcome to the board.
Welcome to the board.
welcome, fleet vehicles can be pretty beat up, most fleet users beat the car pretty bad, i would go for the new, or look for another used one
Thank you. i guess we need to keep looking. Although I don't "need" the extras, it would be nice for $20,000. We may have to go to Atlanta which is a 2 hr trip. There is just not much around here.
Keep looking if your not thrilled with the new one over the used one.. i would rather the new one since u dont know the previous history,maitnence.. and its only 2k difference and 25kmiles difference...
I agree with the above comments about buying new. I bought a rental car about 4 years ago, still have it, and it is a good car. However, I dont think I would take that chance again. The almost new subarus hold there value so well that I just gave up looking at them, and plan to buy new one.
I wouldn't necessarily be afraid of the used one if they have some good documentation on service history. I would also have a thrid party inspect it for frame damage, etc in relation to the accident.
Any time you can buy a used one (if it is acceptible as far as condition) you save money (let someone else take the hit of depreciation).
If you decide to check out the ones in Atlanta, I can tell you that there are two good dealers here and I would recommend both of them highly. My dealer has all their inventory complete with full pictures on their website so you can see what they have before you drive two hours.
Any time you can buy a used one (if it is acceptible as far as condition) you save money (let someone else take the hit of depreciation).
If you decide to check out the ones in Atlanta, I can tell you that there are two good dealers here and I would recommend both of them highly. My dealer has all their inventory complete with full pictures on their website so you can see what they have before you drive two hours.
I don't see any problem with the used one either. People buy used foresters on here with a hell of allot more then 25k all the time, thats nothing in terms of mileage. In fact no major work is called for before 30,000 anyhow. The recall is a simple flash of the ECU it doesn't affect mileage at all. And as for the accident people have damage fixed all the time on their cars and keep driving them for years with no problems, if the frame wasn't hurt and it was repaired competently I don't see any problems there either for all you know it could of been just a scratched bumper cover. If you were really interested in it Ill bet you could get the dealer to throw in a 6 yr 100,000 mi warranty to protect you of any unforeseeable problems down the road.
I agree, just make sure if you negotiate a warranty that it is a real-life "Subaru" warranty and not some third party company. If in doubt, go to any consumer reporting organization and see what they say about third party warranty companies. :icon_frown:
Might I suggest also to add some more geographical reference to your location. I'll assume you live in Georgia because of your reference to Atlanta. More people may chime in with their buying experience in your locale, quite possibly steering you to a favorable purchase.
Just go into your User CP, Edit Profile and add your location.
Good luck with your shopping and keep us up to date.
p.s. I'd go new in the above situation.
Just go into your User CP, Edit Profile and add your location.
Good luck with your shopping and keep us up to date.
p.s. I'd go new in the above situation.
Cannot tell you what to do but can offer my experience- I was chosing between used diesel outback and new forester and in the end
Opted for new gasoline forester. With used car for the same money I would got better performance, waaaay better mpg( diesel was 40-50), better equipmet.
But...used car had only 1,5 years left of warranty, clutch was slippinga bit, found out it was repainted in front, in few months I would have to change brake pads, tyres and so on
So, the bottom line I am trying to say is, there is a REASON why this better equiped car had lower price
Opted for new gasoline forester. With used car for the same money I would got better performance, waaaay better mpg( diesel was 40-50), better equipmet.
But...used car had only 1,5 years left of warranty, clutch was slippinga bit, found out it was repainted in front, in few months I would have to change brake pads, tyres and so on
So, the bottom line I am trying to say is, there is a REASON why this better equiped car had lower price
My rule is to buy new if you are dealing with cars that do not depreciate much. (Obviously not possible if you are looking at $5-10k cars.)
We got my wife a brand new Honda Civic in July of 2007 for $17.4k. Currently, dealers are selling these for $14k and they are 3 year old cars.
Likewise, I bought my '09 FX new in April 2008 for $20k. Now, with 26k miles, it looks like they are still selling for $17k or so at dealers.
Our last round of cars was a 1998 Mercury Sable and a 1998 Acura TL; both were bought used and 2 years old in 2000. List price on the Sable was $22k and we paid $13k; list on the Acura was $32k and we paid $19k. Bought extended warranties on both cars and they served us very well for 7-8 years each.
The rule: if a car depreciates like a rock, buy used but still within the warranty period; if a car hardly depreciates (Civic, Forester), buy new.
And strippers like the FX are your best deal. In 10 years, it will be worth the same as a loaded FXT and will cost much less to maintain in its old age because it's simpler and has less stuff to go wrong.
The particular used Foz you're looking at is NOT good to buy IMO. You have no warranty on anything pertaining to the collision, so if the car starts rusting prematurely, or has other issues tied to the collision, no warranty coverage. And if you want to sell it down the road, buyers will pull up the Carfax and avoid it.
George
We got my wife a brand new Honda Civic in July of 2007 for $17.4k. Currently, dealers are selling these for $14k and they are 3 year old cars.
Likewise, I bought my '09 FX new in April 2008 for $20k. Now, with 26k miles, it looks like they are still selling for $17k or so at dealers.
Our last round of cars was a 1998 Mercury Sable and a 1998 Acura TL; both were bought used and 2 years old in 2000. List price on the Sable was $22k and we paid $13k; list on the Acura was $32k and we paid $19k. Bought extended warranties on both cars and they served us very well for 7-8 years each.
The rule: if a car depreciates like a rock, buy used but still within the warranty period; if a car hardly depreciates (Civic, Forester), buy new.
And strippers like the FX are your best deal. In 10 years, it will be worth the same as a loaded FXT and will cost much less to maintain in its old age because it's simpler and has less stuff to go wrong.
The particular used Foz you're looking at is NOT good to buy IMO. You have no warranty on anything pertaining to the collision, so if the car starts rusting prematurely, or has other issues tied to the collision, no warranty coverage. And if you want to sell it down the road, buyers will pull up the Carfax and avoid it.
George
I am looking at the 2000 (10 years old) Subaru price page on Edmunds.com. There are no 2000 XT's, but there are varying models of each body style.
I am not looking at details at all, but virtually all of the cars are worth about 5 grand, and the largest difference within any specific model is $1300. That is NOT thousands, my friend, and despite what the books say, I have bought enough used cars in my life (well over 30 of them over 40 years of driving) that I will pay just as much for a stripper as I will for a loaded up car when both are 10 years old.
I have owned older luxury cars and they can be a nightmare when all the fancy crap (sunroofs, climate control, etc) starts breaking. In a 10 year old XT, I would imagine that the turbo is getting tired, the transmission/clutch will have had a harder life, etc.
How about this quick example: I just checked the basic used car price for a 2000 Acura TL at $5500 and a 2000 Honda Civic EX sedan at $5551. When new, the Acura was more than 2x the price of the Civic. When 10 years old, the Civic is worth MORE. Let's talk in 10 years on used Forester prices if you don't believe this can/will happen.
George
Honda's or Acura's ? Were talking about Foresters, I went with the 2004 model and compaired prices of the xt $15,020 and x $12,365 and given that each should depreciate about the same in value each year it just makes sence that in 10 yrs you'll pay more for a turbo charged forester than a base model.
On a used Subaru, I would be very cautious about one that has been a fleet "rental" car. Whenever I am in a rental car with someone, they drive it like they were trying to qualify for the Daytona 500!
"It was rear ended. car fax says moderately but car fax also says no structural/frame damage." That one sentence is enough for me to not go with this used forester. IMHO, you can do much better.
Have you looked at a new 2010 Forester with the Special Edition package? If I were you, that's how I would go. For only $400 more dollars you get 16" alloy wheels and roof rails. Just those two items will really dress up the Forester and give it much more curb appeal.
I HATE plastic hubcaps. Of course, I LOVE the chrome hubcaps with the painted center that you find on an old Mercedes-Benz. However, those days are over.
"It was rear ended. car fax says moderately but car fax also says no structural/frame damage." That one sentence is enough for me to not go with this used forester. IMHO, you can do much better.
Have you looked at a new 2010 Forester with the Special Edition package? If I were you, that's how I would go. For only $400 more dollars you get 16" alloy wheels and roof rails. Just those two items will really dress up the Forester and give it much more curb appeal.
I HATE plastic hubcaps. Of course, I LOVE the chrome hubcaps with the painted center that you find on an old Mercedes-Benz. However, those days are over.
I used the Honda example to show how a basic, simple car, when it gets old, is worth more than an equally high quality car with more equipment on it. There were no FXT's that were 10 years old.
Looking at Edmunds listings for 2004 Foresters right here:
2004 Subaru Forester Pricing and Information
It looks like the cheapest X vs the cheapest XT is about $1500 difference, and looking at the difference between the XS with leather and the XT with leather, I see $300. This is not "thousands" as you said, and it's not even looking at 10 year old vehicles.
And if I was buying any 10 year old vehicle to drive with, say, 120-150k miles on it, and looking to get another 50-100k miles out of it, no way would I choose a turbo or a loaded vehicle. Broken power equipment and problem electronics are a real pain when cars get old. Also, the turbo's extra heat cooks underhood wiring and rubber parts way more than a NA engine. And the possibility of engine/trans work increases with the more powerful turbo car.
If gas goes up to $6 per gallon, I would forecast that the turbo would be worth less yet. Like I said, let's talk in 10 years. After 40 years of buying cars, my gut feelings are usually pretty good about stuff. In 10 years, a new $20k FX and a 30k FXT are both gonna be $5000 cars, give or take (and adjust for inflation if necessary). If you have no better use for 10 grand than to lose it on depreciation, buy the XT. The additional gas and maintenance needed for the XT will only increase the 10 grand difference.
George
As stated before My prices were from KBB New Cars, Used Cars, Blue Book Values & Car Prices - Kelley Blue Book
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$15,020-$12,365= $2,655 Just what I said a few thousand difference..Again take a grand off each one every year till its 10 years old and guess what its still $2,655 difference. Also where do car dealers get the prices they give you on trades and sell used cars from, its certainly not edmunds.
Im done with this because its no use arguing, you believe what you want.
$15,020-$12,365= $2,655 Just what I said a few thousand difference..Again take a grand off each one every year till its 10 years old and guess what its still $2,655 difference. Also where do car dealers get the prices they give you on trades and sell used cars from, its certainly not edmunds.
Im done with this because its no use arguing, you believe what you want.
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