Subaru Forester Owners Forum banner

1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
2009 Forester MAN
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys new to this forum and to Subaru.. I have a 09 Forester EE20 and I love it, well loved* it lol

So I bought my car without knowing about crank issues and the list of other problems, when I saw the list I was already the owner of it (Unlucky) So 1st thing I done was a oil change / service as I always do with a used car. I noticed some oil in the intake in the turbo so this got alarm bells ringing as I'm sure everyone knows about the runaway issues this can cause also the turbo had a lot of play... £500 full refurb with new cartridge installed. I was happy again BUT my coolant was always getting low. I got this checked but no sings of a head issue... I have since seen coolant fire out somewhere at the exhaust / EGR and it stinks so think I have found my problem, well one of them...

I noticed the car has silicon gasket material all over it and looking at the mileage 124,000 I'm 99% sure the crank has gone and the car has had a rebuild...

Ok so now the big issue... I noticed on a cold start I was getting a alternator whine sound that would go away after 10mins but I looked into what this was and it was the cam chain slopping about because the tensor never has enough oil pressure to keep it tight. I kept driving then one day the oil light came on at idle... I looked this up and EVERYONE was saying crank main bearing gone and soon the engine will be gone with it.... well that turned out to be a load of rubbish.

I have a very good mate who is also a mechanic took the sump (Oil pan) off and boom the oil pickup was clogged / packed with sludge... and some silicon from a engine rebuild? So he done a good just cleaning it all out. I did ask him to flush the engine but he said he got it all and should be fine now and it was... well 2000 miles on and back comes the sound again the oil light is taking its time going out and just makes it out and no more at idle.

I have noticed this seems to happen when I do a long solid run but that could be coincidence? I'm reading things about SCV valves causing fuel into the oil? Also my MPG is shocking I would say 33MPG is normal for mixed driving but if you nurse it you can get 40ish MPG and on the highway (motorway) looking at 45ish MPG Just over 350 miles a tank?

I have attacked pics that my mate sent when he 1st cleaned it out. I guess this could be caused of soo many things but I would love it if you guys could offer me a hand in sorting this because I have fallen in love with this car and would love to get at least 200,000 from it. I don't have a lot of cash but I'm handy and worked on cars and bikes a wee bit in my free time also have plenty of tools.

I asked my mate if I could put the car up on stands and attempt cleaning the sump / pickup myself he said it is not a easy job? it looks easy enough remove exhaust pipes and slightly jack up the engine to get to the rear sump bolts? I might be missing something again if you guys know please fire away with the msgs.

Sorry for this really long post but I thought I would give you all some detail about the car, me and the problem.

Thanks,

Kevin
 

Attachments

·
Registered
2010 Forester Diesel 6MT
Joined
·
859 Posts
Hey guys new to this forum and to Subaru.. I have a 09 Forester EE20 and I love it, well loved* it lol
Welcome to the forum! (if not the actual vehicle!)

So I bought my car without knowing about crank issues and the list of other problems...I noticed the car has silicon gasket material all over it and looking at the mileage 124,000 I'm 99% sure the crank has gone and the car has had a rebuild...
Hmmm, if it was rebuilt by Subaru, or Subaru was used for warranty/parts they should have a record of it against the VIN and/or engine no. So may be worth checking with a dealer. But with silicone in it...

Firstly they've used too much silicone if there's chunks lying around.
Secondly it's not likely a Subaru dealer who did the rebuild, they'd use proper gaskets.
Thirdly you don't know where the silicone is.
Fourthly, the silicone could have gone elsewhere and blocked up other parts/bits, e.g. valve timing, other apparatus. It's not good.

Ok so now the big issue... ...the oil light came on at idle... took the sump (Oil pan) off and boom the oil pickup was clogged / packed with sludge... and some silicon from a engine rebuild?
I also have a Mazda 3 diesel and this is a known issue with those engines, (apparently) contributory is their spec of JASO DL-1 spec engine oil which is apparently very 'pristine' (i.e. little if any detergents or additives). Contributory (I think) is a known injector leak issue on some builds due to underspec injector seal washers. By the time the oil light comes on with those the damage is apparently done. This applies to the Mazda 3, 6, etc. with the Japanese 2 or 2.2l diesels. So this is a good 'catch'.

It may also be that there was excessive diesel leakage/oil dilution, or an additive was used, or the wrong spec oil was used.

So he done a good just cleaning it all out. I did ask him to flush the engine but he said he got it all and should be fine now and it was... well 2000 miles on and back comes the sound again the oil light is taking its time going out and just makes it out and no more at idle.
One of the reasons to not flush the engine on diesels (at least using an additive) is the DPF. The additives are, effectively, pollutants in the oil and can cause ash buildup in the DPF. They may also possibly hurt the DPF core.

I have noticed this seems to happen when I do a long solid run but that could be coincidence? I'm reading things about SCV valves causing fuel into the oil?
Not sure about this. However in the 'old days' (like 70's and before) it was common with the engine and oil tech of the time that a hard run could produces exactly that- a low oil pressure at idle afterwards due to the oil thinning and tolerances expanding after a hard run.

You probably need to measure the oil pressure and check against a spec. Make sure your oil used is the corect spec. It may be a wrong oil was used previously too. The oil filter or other galleries could also be clogged (silicone). Oil dilution will be evident by an excessively high (and climbing with time) oil level. Note allow the car to sit for ~15 mins before measuring as it takes a little time for the oil to drain back to the sump with this engine. This is also important when refilling the engine or you can overfill it to begin with.

Also my MPG is shocking I would say 33MPG is normal for mixed driving but if you nurse it you can get 40ish MPG and on the highway (motorway) looking at 45ish MPG Just over 350 miles a tank?
That's about what we got (~8l/100 km city, 7l/100km highway). These things seem to be parachutes on wheels.

I have attacked pics...
Well you shouldn't really- your mate was being nice. Just attach them next time :biggrin:

Oh, one other item to check for: Cracked intake/turbo/intercooler elbows, pipes and hoses plus loose clamps. They are common, almost mandatory and tend to lead to excessive regens, so more oil dilution, DPF issues, etc...

Hope this helps,
 

·
Registered
2009 Forester MAN
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Wow thanks for taking the time out to read and reply it means a lot. I have spent all day on it working in the street car up on stands sump off, pickup chocked to the max again but this is the 1st time I have gotten to see it with my own eyes and I would say its all carbon... so sludge. I saw a few little bits of metal flakes but this engine has had a snapped crank before so could be from that and been kicking about still as I'm not hearing any noises that relates to bearing failing.

I have cleaned all the pickup out again and got some more pics. What you mention on the injector seal got me thinking... I popped the oil cap off when running the engine and it was like a 2nd exhaust so could be a seal (engine out time) I have seen others use catch cans? i'm a bit unsure on what is is and if that would help? if not we will need to wait and see.

One of the sump bolts snapped lol so hopefully shes fine without or I will be back under again stripping it lol and defo not a nice job to do in the street on stands. If I had a ramp I think I would have done the job in half the time.


Thanks again,

Kevin
 

Attachments

·
Registered
2010 Forester Diesel 6MT
Joined
·
859 Posts
Hi kevin,

firstly I forgot yours was a 2009 (EURO4 I think). Mine's a 2010 and that's EURO5. There were many running mods that led to running issues, such as:

- my 2010 had glow plug failures common whereas other models didn't
- my 2010 had common intake tract pipe/elbow failures whereas other models didn't
- the 2009/earlier ones had common crankshaft issues, whereas the later (2010 -on) models didn't.


Wow thanks for taking the time out to read and reply it means a lot.
No probs :)

I have spent all day on it working in the street car up on stands sump off...
You Brits/Euros amaze me. Glasgow, midwinter and fixing the car in the street!!! I complain if it's 10C and I'm under the car parked in my big, fat, concrete driveway...

...pickup chocked to the max again but this is the 1st time I have gotten to see it with my own eyes and I would say its all carbon... so sludge.
How long did that take to accumulate? It probably is carbon, but could it be coolant contamination? Does look different to coolant mess though.

I saw a few little bits of metal flakes but this engine has had a snapped crank before so could be from that and been kicking about still as I'm not hearing any noises that relates to bearing failing.
You're making assumptions both about where the flakes come from and that something's not about to let go shortly. It may be worth doing an oil analysis- that will tell you what's contaminating the oil, e.g. coolant or carbon, what metals are present and how many/what size flakes (i.e. what's giving way). I believe they're not usually too expensive (but a Subaru diesel engine is).

I have cleaned all the pickup out again and got some more pics.
Cleaned pickup looks *MUCH* better. But it also seems to have corrosion on it... that points to water- perhaps coolant again? Perhaps an oil analysis would help again...

What you mention on the injector seal got me thinking... I popped the oil cap off when running the engine and it was like a 2nd exhaust so could be a seal (engine out time) I have seen others use catch cans? i'm a bit unsure on what is is and if that would help? if not we will need to wait and see.
That's probably blow-by, but how much there should be is another matter. Usually it's just "puff-puff-puff" if there's a lot of exhaust it's coming from somehwere... usually past the pistons/rings. A compression test may help, but oil analysis again may tell if there's substantial exhaust contamination. This could also be a source of soot/contaminants for the oil pickup clogging.

One of the sump bolts snapped lol so hopefully shes fine without or I will be back under again stripping it lol and defo not a nice job to do in the street on stands. If I had a ramp I think I would have done the job in half the time.
Yikes! Methinks you'll need the bolt or there may be leaks. Don't use silicone to bog it up now, will you?!! :biggrin:
 

·
Registered
2009 Forester MAN
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Yeah it was cold and 9hrs including the odd trip to Mcds for a coffee lol realy feeling it today though. Would love to have a nice big drive or garage to work on lol I think it was sorted
cleaned Nov / Dec it lasted 2000 Miles before it was like the picture bellow. I thought coolant would have been more like sludge (just guessing)? It was like little bundles of pure carbon you could crush the carbon in your hands and it was like grit like sand.

I 100% am and when I seen the flakes I felt ill lol but it seems this car was more slapped togeather with no gaskets (rebuild on a budget?) so I'm guessing they are a good chance that it was from the last crank. I did test the metal and it was not magnetic so I found that odd if it was from a bearing? but I did to the glow plugs before all the happened and its got me thinking.... the threads didnt all survive removing the plugs I'm wondering if a lot of carbon and some alloy shavings fell into a cylinder filling the engine up with carbon.... not sure if thats possible but just a thought.

I will look into a oil analysis tonight I will let this oil run for a 500miles? then send some off see what happens. The pickup rust marks did make me think that tbh but again I was putting this down to when the crank went bang it was prob left up for a bit with no oil. I do know the metal bracket that hangs around just above the pickup is bent and the metal is torn so I think something has came flying off the crank and gave it a good hard hit or it was damaged outside the car? I think you can see the twist in the pics but the torn bit I never got a pic of :(

Yeah I have ordered some pilot drills as I don't trust my sight and control if the drill lol it didnt take much to snap was only hand tight with a screwdriver :( I have taken it to work and back and that noise is away still also oil light out straight away and no drips. So for now its fixed.... but for how long lol defo doing that oil test for £60 it can save me taking a engine out and if it needs to come out I will be sure about what needs done.

Again thinks for you help it really is appreciated I will keep you updated on what happen. I was a fun 9hrs under the car I love gettign to see how a engine is made and getting to know what everything is doing. You learn a lot more about a engine than just giving it over to someone, but thats just me and what I enjoy.


Cheers,

Kevin :)
 

·
Registered
2010 Forester Diesel 6MT
Joined
·
859 Posts
Hi Kevin,

Bearings don't necessarily have magnetic materials. For example, whilst an engine bearing (which is not a roller one but rather a journal or sleeve) has to be strong to withstand the forces, it also has to be malleable/conformable to make a good 'fit'. So you end up with a strong (e.g. steel) backing with a soft (e.g. perhaps a copper alloy with aluminium/tin/lead, all of which are non-magnetic). Thus if your bearings are wearing (as they will if you're about to 'spin' a bearing on the crankshaft) you'll get non-magnetic particles.

If something came apart internally previously metal particles could have scored the cylinder walls. This could be the cause of the blow-by, also oil contamination (from exhaust and diesel) and will cause low compression, etc. Next time you ahve the oil pan off (!) it may be worth a look to see if you can see the lower cylinder walls with a gooseneck inspection camera?

I had noticed the apparently bent part and wondered about it but thought it was just me seeing things!

It's a good thing you caught that oil starvation a second time. You may have just saved your engine (again).

As for the oil analysis, ask the company doing it but I suspect the longer the better.

It's really great that you get 'hands-on' and into the engine. I'm a bit bookwormy myself. i can do the basics (oil, filter, plug changes, bleed brakes, tune ignitions, clean throttle bodies/intakes, change gaskets etc) but tend to stay to that.

Thanks very much for your info and please do keep us updated! I hope it all works out well for you!!
 

·
Registered
2009 Forester MAN
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Well after cleaning the sump another 3 times lol I finally got to take the engine out with my mate (he's a mechanic) and confirmed the injector seal issue.

The engine was actually not that hard to remove (Subaru thought about this lol) I have attached some images of lifting the engine out and a picture of the injector in question it's a lot of carbon it's been producing as you can see in the pics.

The injectors are getting sent away to get a full clean and test. The clutch and DMF is also not in the best condition so we will be changing that out with the bearing.

I have a full Subaru engine gasket kit so the plan is to keep strpping the engine until we know all is ok and we know where the metal shavings are coming from. New head gaskets ready to put on and hopefully by the end it will be 100,000 before I need to touch this thing again. The crank if damaged will be away to a machine show and oversized bearings fitted if required.

The valves are very loose so we will get all the specs and sort that we will also get the injectors coded in once they are back.

It's all go ATM I'm excited and but very nervous. It's clear this car is with me for a long time yet so no point taking shortcuts.

Enjoy the pictures any updates I'll post. Any feedback, advice or good luck to wish feel free lol always appreciated.


Thanks,

Kevin
 

Attachments

1 - 8 of 8 Posts
Top