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2004 STI 6MT (2005)
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Discussion Starter #1
Just wanted to know because I'm ordering some skidplates in the next week or so and was wondering if removing the rear interior of the Fozzie would be beneficial. By rear, I mean back seats / door panels (will be replacing speakers soon in the back). Please don't give me answers like "no because it's not your car," I'm not asking that question, pretend like it's mine for the purpose of this thread. Basically; is more weight or less weight optimal for rally racing? (traction may be an issue maybe with less??)

Thanks :icon_biggrin:
 

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2007 Outback 2.5i
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490 Posts
What kind of rally?

I'd imagine adding skids gives you more weight down low, so that should be a plus (and you get underbody protection). Removing seats? Depends, I guess. I autocross and I've seen people ripping their seats out just for the race. I don't see the point on a stock car. You are talking about a 100lbs though (give or take), so trimming any kinda weight is always beneficial to speed. Now, what it does to your handling, that's another story (now you're talking weight distribution). On a stock car, I'd rather mess around with suspension, add or delete rear sway bar, tire type and pressures, etc.

Depends on the type of racing you're preparing for, but in rallycross, I wouldn't bother. Stage rally, well, you'd need a cage so they'd have to come out anyways. I imagine they're not so hard to remove though, so it's up to you. Maybe somebody else with more experience can chime in.

I'd probably take them out just so I wouldn't have to deal with cleaning the dust out later, but other than that I'd leave them in :icon_wink:
 

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2008 Forester AE
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1,726 Posts
don't worry about taking the interior out to save weight, especially on a daily driver.. just strap everything down and go have fun!

also don't expect to win you first time out.. you will enjoy it more and be really suprised if you do.
 

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2004 STI 6MT (2005)
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Discussion Starter #6
Keep your windows closed (i've learned that the hard way) :icon_wink:
Haha yeah I learned that drifting in snow... Mmmm face full of ice cold, wet snow es no bueno :shake:

don't worry about taking the interior out to save weight, especially on a daily driver.. just strap everything down and go have fun!

also don't expect to win you first time out.. you will enjoy it more and be really suprised if you do.
What about to save gas monies y keep the seats clean? I gotta make a 4 hour drive to the rallycross school I'm going to so wouldn't keeping weight down save some fuel as well?

I never expext to win in a n/a car and lack of skills I currently posess.. :biggrin:
 

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2000 Mazda Protege ES
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50 Posts
Lighter is better in rally racing and just about everything else. (98.5% of the time) This idea that extra weigh equals more traction is such a bad common wisdom, almost as bad as warming up your car before driving off is good for it.
 

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2008 XS 4EAT
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9,878 Posts
The four hour drive without the seats is probably going to increase the noise level in the car, which in itself is fatiguing. Check with the people you are taking it with, or who have taken the classes before and follow their advice (you know who).

Have fun at the Primative school, just don't transfer those skills you learn into a****le moves on the streets.
 

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2010 Forester 2.5X
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28 Posts
Lighter is better in motorsports.

But for the level you are at, you won't notice the extra weight.
Agreed. It will have the most noticeable effect on acceleration, but will affect braking and turning in a positive manner. I have a Mustang road race car and I can definitely notice a 50 lb. difference in it, but doing laps at a road course is significantly different than at a rally cross. If you're bored, yank them out, but don't expect to notice it at the actual event. I think you'd be more likely to notice it getting on the interstate than at the rally cross.
 

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2010 Forester 2.5X
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28 Posts
Lighter is better in rally racing and just about everything else. (98.5% of the time) This idea that extra weigh equals more traction is such a bad common wisdom, almost as bad as warming up your car before driving off is good for it.
What? It seems like you are implying that warming up an engine before driving off is bad for it? I think warming up an engine by idling for a few minutes will only increase the lifespan of the engine.
 

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98 Forester...what else
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5,748 Posts
To be quite honest snoshado, I would concern myself with simply showing up, paying very close attention to what is taught, and to learning the skills that your instructor gives you. I would be far more concerned about tire selection and pressure, and underbody protection (get Primitive) to keep the car relatively safe rather than removing seats and door panels to save weight. Last year, when we took the school, there was a bone stock Volvo S50 sedan among the students, as well as a Toyota Tundra, and a host of other pedestrian vehicles. Not ONE of them took out a single STOCK item of their vehicle to save weight. Perhaps, during the rally-x on Sunday, when you have finished learning some of the new skills, I MIGHT suggest looking around and seeing what people remove from their vehicles. I'm guessing the only thing you'll see laying on the ground in each contestants "pit area" is a spare tire (possibly) and some random stuff that would otherwise be considered a loose object in the vehicle. You'll be removing your luggage, whatever soda bottles are laying around, candy bar wrappers, and coffee cups.

Focus on the important things.
 

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What? It seems like you are implying that warming up an engine before driving off is bad for it? I think warming up an engine by idling for a few minutes will only increase the lifespan of the engine.
Nope, it's pretty accepted that letting a car warm up is worse for it. If you start up the car let it idle for a short time(enough time for it to lubricate the engine) and then drive easy it's better for it. It warms up faster(less wear and tear), and wastes less gas. Also less air pollution this way, for those that care.

Even if you want to drive hard it's accepted that you're better off driving easy at first instead of letting it idle. You have to wait for the other parts of the drivetrain to warm up anyway. Think engine block heaters, you still have to go easy until the rest of the drivetrain warms up.

Of course all things like this are open to personal opinion, but if you do a quick search I'm sure you'd find a lot of discussion on why it's best to get in and go.
 

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2001 Forester
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1,142 Posts
To be quite honest snoshado, I would concern myself with simply showing up, paying very close attention to what is taught, and to learning the skills that your instructor gives you. I would be far more concerned about tire selection and pressure, and underbody protection (get Primitive) to keep the car relatively safe rather than removing seats and door panels to save weight. Last year, when we took the school, there was a bone stock Volvo S50 sedan among the students, as well as a Toyota Tundra, and a host of other pedestrian vehicles. Not ONE of them took out a single STOCK item of their vehicle to save weight. Perhaps, during the rally-x on Sunday, when you have finished learning some of the new skills, I MIGHT suggest looking around and seeing what people remove from their vehicles. I'm guessing the only thing you'll see laying on the ground in each contestants "pit area" is a spare tire (possibly) and some random stuff that would otherwise be considered a loose object in the vehicle. You'll be removing your luggage, whatever soda bottles are laying around, candy bar wrappers, and coffee cups.

Focus on the important things.

I've gotta agree with Roo. I think you will find it much more enjoyable if you listen and pick up some fun new tricks rather than worry about weight.
 

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2010 FXT Limited 4EAT Sport Shift
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1,587 Posts
Just wanted to know because I'm ordering some skidplates in the next week or so and was wondering if removing the rear interior of the Fozzie would be beneficial. By rear, I mean back seats / door panels (will be replacing speakers soon in the back). Please don't give me answers like "no because it's not your car," I'm not asking that question, pretend like it's mine for the purpose of this thread. Basically; is more weight or less weight optimal for rally racing? (traction may be an issue maybe with less??)

Thanks :icon_biggrin:
Roo has given you good advice...if you feel that you're a budding rally racer just waiting to bust out onto the international scene, driver skill is the single most important option for ANY vehicle...a professional driver will get the best time possible from any vehicle, and it won't be because he ordered a skid plate.
That said, a few considerations:
For almost ANY competition application, the distribution of weight is more important than the amount.
There are three areas that worth considering:
1)Center of Gravity - the lower the center of gravity, the better the car will handle...redistributing weight already a part of the car to a lower location will improve handling (for example, a battery, washer fluid containers, etc.)
2)Balance front to rear - whether you wish your car to oversteer or understeer has much (not all) to do with how the weight in your car is balanced (for example if you wish to shift existing weight to the rear to enhance oversteering characteristics (or minimize existing understeering), AND lower your center of gravity, you might run your battery to the rear and down lower in the body than it was. When doing this, you'll want to maintain left/right balance...if you put 'x' amount of battery weight from right front to down low in the right rear of car, you should move an equal weigth from left front to down low in left rear.

You'll need to understand these terms, if you're 'tending' like a rally racer. So if you add 'y' pounds of skid plate to front down low, what should you being doing at your rear end...;>

-Quick
 

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2004 STI 6MT (2005)
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Discussion Starter #16
Great info you guys, thank you! I guess if I'm super bored I'll take them out just to do it but otherwise they can stay in. As far as skidplates go, I take it I should do something in the back to balance the weight once they're added? I'll look into this and once again, great info, I really appreciate it!
 

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2008 FSXT M/T
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4,170 Posts
you're really overthinking everything. do the skidplate and leave everything else alone, itll be fine... your car is far from a rally spec'd car. just go out there and have fun, worry about weight and mods later, MUCH LATER!
 

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Great info you guys, thank you! I guess if I'm super bored I'll take them out just to do it but otherwise they can stay in. As far as skidplates go, I take it I should do something in the back to balance the weight once they're added? I'll look into this and once again, great info, I really appreciate it!
None of this will matter at all at the level you're racing. Just go and drive. The driver matters way more than the car. Just leave everything stock. In some cases changing things will put you in a different class against more prepared cars anyway.

Around here the ones that win in rallyx are the ones who have cars that they don't have to worry about.
 

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2006 XT
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675 Posts
Yup. Over thinking. As for any event check the fluids, pads, bearings (bla bla bla). Grab the other essentials (sunblock, water, correct clothing, bla bla bla). And enjoy.

At your level it's learning. Last year after corner marshaling a NASA race the track owner let us loose for a couple hours until nightfall. I still had the boot full of camping gear and a hitch mounted bike rack with my mountain bike. Daily driver tires and the extra weight, on my home track and I had to relearn lots. It's all about realizing and coping with what you brung and dealing with it. Same with all forms of Motorsports.

These skills of learning limits will pay you back tenfold in your daily driving.
 
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