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How much camber should I set it at?

4K views 29 replies 10 participants last post by  The Black Box 
#1 ·
Ok, I set the camber at -2.5 F and -2.0 R and zero toe last year for auto-x on my stock struts with the swift springs and found it to still understeer in tight corners more than I wanted.

I was running 225/45/17 Dunlop Direzza Z1's. I have H&R camber bolts both front and back/ COBB sways front and back/strut bars front and back/GT spec H and fender braces as well...

So... here is my question: I have switched to 2004 STI struts w/ crucial race springs (quite a nice needed drop in ride height from last year) and before I align it in my garage I want to know your guys opinions on what camber to run to get a bit more rotation in tight corners.

That said, I have to say that the backend would break loose a bit on fast slolams last year, but that may have been due to driving style or the body roll I was getting on the swifts.

I was thinking of trying 2.5 F/1.5R and going from there. Thoughts?
 
#2 ·
i think 2.5/1.5 will be perfect(in fact thats what ill be dialing in my car to this week), -2.0 in the rear is a little much... try adjust your tire pressures also, i like to run a little more in the rear to help the car rotate! if you have the problem w/ the car being to ass happy, take some air out of the rears.

try adding some positive caster in the front as well.
 
#4 ·
I'd run much lower pressure. Higher pressure will benefit turn in, but reduce overall grip. Try playing with the front and rear pressure independently.

I don't think anymore than -1 camber in the rear is necessary. I'd probably run -2/-1 F/R. What size sway bars are you using? More bar in the rear will help rotation, or more rear weight bias. More caster in the front will help a bunch too.

At your ride height you might want to think about throwing a BJE on as you're probably past the point where lowering helps (anything lower than stock wrx/sti ride height starts having a negative impact on handling, especially up front as the control arms go past horizontal)
 
#5 ·
I am running COBB sways front and rear. The inner rear tire would lift so bad last year on tight corners (like four inches in the air) on the stiffest rear bar setting, I had to go to the medium setting. If I lowered the pressures from around 40psi the Direzzas do roll over somewhat worse..

Define BJE? I am not following on that one.

I have three opinions so far:

Me: 2.5F/1.5R
Four or two: 2.5F/1.5R
fnkymky: 2.0F/1.0R

Other input?
 
#6 ·
ball joint extenders.

btw w/ the foz's high center of gravity i find it impossible for the tires to not roll a little bit, despite higher tire pressures. i think stiffer springs or coilovers will help illeviate this, but even on the stiffer springs and dspecs my car does it still, but not as bad as it was.
 
#7 ·
I figured he was referring to some type of bump stop kit... The crucial springs only lower it .49 inch as compared to 04 STI take off springs... Not a big difference in ride height, but quite a nice little change in spring rate which is what I also want.

I don't think I will be going with a bump stop kit just right off the bat. If this thread: http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f70/lowering-your-forester-28442/ has any validity, he notes that a center rim to fender lip measurement of 14 inches or better does not neccesitate a bump stop kit. My center rim to fender lip measurement is dead on 14 inches (I just went out and measured it in my garage)...
 
#8 ·
Some of the guys at last wknds auto-x suggested undoing the rsb..as I was oversteering like mad, and the tail didn't want to stay planted, and was swaying heavily in all the all the slaloms. They also mentioned rear toe...and it shound be a bit more neg. b/c when load bearing acceleration...it naturally evens out to zero and gets better contact as well.

I am -2front/-1.7 & -2.0 rear...swifts /gr2,braced, etc

Here is a slo-mo clip

CSCC Casoc Solo AX Test & Tune 3/27/10
 
#11 · (Edited)
If you want the rear active you need to reduce camber, -1 as the absolute maxiumum, probably nearer zero (which is what I have)....

If you are lifting the inside rear wheel, then it doesn't matter if its lifted 4" or 0.4" its still off the ground, by keeping the rear ARB stiff you help maintain the rear ride height which keeps the rear roll centre high and thus (due to the inclined roll centre axis) reduces understeer.

Simon
 
#14 ·
When I had mine set by Richard @ Tracktive (ex-WRC mechanic), the front was set at -1.3 and the rear at -1.16 - 1.19. It was a totally different car to drive afterwards. It is a heavy car so if you see understeer in tight corners maybe you are a bit over-enthusiastic or you need to play with tyre pressures (reduce them after a few laps if they have overheated)
 
#17 ·
Dunno... do you have the crucial wrx/sti springs? If so, you have the same thing as I do. What top hats are you running, that could account for a differenece in ride height, couldn't it? Mine are stock STI tophats (as far as I can tell)...

Just got done aligning it in my garage. zero toe all round 2.0 F neg camber, 1.2 R neg camber. I will drive it a while, see how I like it and tweak it from here.
 
#18 ·
yep, crucial only made one kind for wrx and sti. actually there are two revisions (black and blue) and the blue ones are just a tad taller. our tophats are basically the same as sti tophats. so yeah, i don't know what's the difference.

wait nevermind

jeremy (founder of crucial) said:
The black ones are *slightly* taller in the rear but we're talking like 0.1 inches. Other than that, just the powdercoat color is the only difference.
 
#21 ·
The alignment went really well. I was turning the eccentric bolts while someone else made measurements. I would have gone crazy :crazy: doing this alone as going back and forth from under the car to the wheel to measure would have been painfully long in my opinion. I used the "homemade digital camber gauge/string line method. I was surprised that it was hard to get the rear camber to go positive enough to get the setting I wanted. I guess that is the effect of dropping a car on camber though.. Can't wait to hop back in it and actually drive it this morning!!!!!!!!!!:biggrin:
 
#22 ·
The difference between stock struts/swift springs and STI struts/crucial springs is no less than a total transformation in handling. This is the way a FXT should feel, corner, and handle...

IDK, this car just hunkers down and is so solid, balanced, and predictable through corners now. I am so very happy. I would suggest this set up to anybody in the Forester community. The ride is not harsh on the street due to the progressive nature of the springs and I have lots of ground clearance to boot.

BTW, I am not experiencing any sign of bump steer.
 
#23 ·
I would have gone with the Crucials also if I hadn't found my D-spec/Prodrive setup. It's too bad they don't make them anymore. Though I think the Epic springs are suppose to be similar (not sure if they are currently produced either).

I gained crazy amounts of caster with the Whiteline offset RCA bushings. Though the RCA kit would be a better option if you don't have a 20 ton press and a way to measure caster changes.

I'm hoping the '04 STi control arms will allow me to ditch the 1" spacers and run at the normal Prodrive (red) height. All they are doing now is increasing my camber to -3.5 and wearing the *bleep* out of my tires (tip: have camber bolts ready if installing '04 STi CAs).
 
#25 ·
It's crazy that -3.5 camber was the minimum amount with the stock bolts! The printer wasn't working but I think my caster setting was around 4.0. Are there any detrimental effects with running that amount?

I wish I could go with wider tires but I didn't want to use spacers... It's a shame because I just bought some new tires today... 235/45/17 Nitto NT555, which I'm not liking but I need to check the pressures.
 
#29 ·
your wheels must look bowed in like crazy!
I didn't notice it after the installation for a few days. But I did a double-take when I did :huh:





I would suggest to not go past -2.5 camber on a DD... I'm getting an alignment on Saturday (-2F/-1.5R/0F&R Toe) and I'll increase the stiffness of the front sway bar. The inside of my tires were showing cords and the outsides had 3/32 left. I take corners hard, whenever I get the chance, but also commute 50+ mi everyday.
 
#27 ·
So my stock Xt was suggested to go just slightly under OEM specs front & rear otherwise I'd melt off the inner treads of my Conti's in straight azz FL roads. They're doing it as I type in fact. What changes can I tell em to make b4 they're done? I said to go -2.0 fr & .05 rear camber zero toe and max caster...
 
#30 · (Edited)
Toe out is what will kill your inner tread fast. That being said I've had somewhat uneven inner treadwear with only .75 upfront 0 toe. Of course that's with about 15K miles of straight freeway driving.

After a certain point understeer can only be cured by driving technique. I know it's urban myth that a bigger front bar will increase understeer but my feeling is that on a Macpherson strut car with crap geometry like Subies, by increasing roll stiffness in the front you maintain the static camber you dialed in to combat understeer. I prefer to control roll stiffness with spring rates and fine tune with swaybars. You can keep putting on a bigger and bigger rear swaybar but once you lift the rear tire you can only increase roll stiffness in the front. Not to mention the lovely snap oversteer you get with increasing roll stiffness only in the back.
 
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