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2016 Forester 2.5 Limited
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52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I've got a few questions for you all.

I've got a '16 Forester that I'd like to upgrade the headlight and fogs on.

I'm looking at these for low beams,
https://headlightrevolution.com/v-4-led-headlights-h11-h16-bulbs/

These for high beams,
https://headlightrevolution.com/supernova-v-3-led-headlights-9005-9145-bulbs/

And these for fogs (same as low beams),
https://headlightrevolution.com/v-4-led-headlights-h11-h16-bulbs

Does anyone see any issues with this?

I've considered bulb replacements like these Sylvan ones but with a life span of 145hrs I can't justify the roi.

Thanks!
 

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2015 Forester
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167 Posts
I've been putting off purchasing the diode dynamic SL1 for my forester. I would like to have more light on the road ahead of me but I'm concerned about blinding other drivers.

I tried to find a detailed review that might compare the two but this is the best I found.

V.4 LED Headlight Bulb Review | Headlight Revolution
In this review HR claims V.4 has 30% more output and better beam pattern than the SL1

It seems that both bulbs report 2-2.5x output over stock. Even with an ideal beam pattern is there any concern to driving around with headlights this bright? Where I live I'm sometimes stopped at a light on a hill and the lights are angled up into oncoming traffic. In these instances even standard halogen bulbs can look like high beams.
 

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1999 Forester S
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530 Posts
Please don't install LED bulbs in your incandescent lamps. There is plenty of documentation out there (and on this forum) as to why this is a waste of your money. There are other options to improve your night vision, but plug-n-play LED bulbs are actually going in the wrong direction, they make your night vision worse.

I'd pick something off this list: Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply
 

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2016 & 2018 2.5i Premium CVT
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19,490 Posts
I've been happy with my SL1s and have never been flashed. The pattern is well contained.
 

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2016 Forester
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898 Posts
If you have high beam DRL, it'll cause LED bulbs to run at full brightness all the time. Seen a few of those during day time and it's super annoying.
 

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2018 Forester XT Limited CVT
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912 Posts
Please do a search on the forums and look at pictures videos and discussions. The Daniel Stern link above is just to a place that sells a lot of incandescent bulbs. If you get an LED replacement designed to work with a housing that had specific bulb models, you'll get equal or improved performance.
 

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1999 Forester S
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530 Posts
Please do a search on the forums and look at pictures videos and discussions.

If you get an LED replacement designed to work with a housing that had specific bulb models, you'll get equal or improved performance.
Well no, they won't. I don't get paid to knock plug'n'play LED/HID bulbs. I've never met Daniel Stern. However, Diode Dynamics makes their living off of selling you parts. Their own website is pretty vague on the legality of these bulbs:

"Street Legal Output. Don't be fooled by high lumen numbers. Your vehicle's fog lights are designed to focus light. If the light source in the housing is out of focus, it doesn't matter how bright it is. You won't have a focused hotspot of light to shine down the road, you'll just have more glare. To correct this, the SLF LED bulb was engineered with advanced optical design software, which simulates each ray of light in a process known as "ray tracing." Using this tool, our engineers perfectly matched the filament location, allowing the SLF LED to focus light just like your original bulb, preserving the focus and hotspot, with no added glare. It produces a functional pattern on the road, with a stronger hotspot for added distance. This is a safe, functional output, in compliance with photometric standards, which we call Street Legal."

Not ACTUALLY street legal, but they call it "street legal."

@DiodeDynamics, care to comment? Are these plug'n'play LED bulbs street legal? If I carried a set into my local DMV or state inspection office, would they be OK'd, or would I be told they're for "offroad use only?"
 

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1999 Forester S
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530 Posts
Yes you will get improvement over incandescent bulbs. You've been shown this many times and have never come up with anything that shows otherwise.
Because I don't enjoy slamming my head repeatedly against a brick wall, I will not continue this argument with you. I've provided ample evidence from creditable sources and yet here you are, again, regurgitating the marketing dribble from the companies trying to sell you this trash...
 

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2015 Forester 2.5i CVT
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79 Posts
I put in my 2015 Forester the GTR Ultra Series Version 3. I purchased them off of headlight revolution after watching their comparison videos on YouTube. I have the standard reflector style headlight housings not projectors. I did need to re-aim the headlights because they were way to high with the new bulbs compared to halogens. Once properly aimed they provide much brighter light and coverage than the conventional halogens. There is one caveat that I can look closely and see the distinctive triple LED lights from the bulb.

I hear people bashing LED’s and people praising them. What have I found? If you get the correct LED’s you get a good light. When you don’t get the right ones you don’t get a better light. There are tons of bad LED replacement bulbs on the market. LED’s in a projector headlight don’t work very well. I tried them in my wife’s projectors and I was disappointed.

I am an independent person not sponsored or paid by anyone. Take what I have said for what it is worth as my personal opinion.

Edit: the GTR Ultras have been in my Subaru for about two years. Still love them. No fan noise because they use a passive style heatsink.
 

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2018 Forester XT Limited CVT
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912 Posts
I've provided ample evidence
That's a joke.

It's pretty obvious that there's no logic or empirical evidence that's driving what you type. You did mention that you are involved with a product in development so I can only guess that you are attempting to discredit products in the market segment you hope to be in. I've never once mentioned any company's marketing and have pointed out only observations and tests by third parties. So, again you're saying things that are false.
 

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2018 Forester XT Limited CVT
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912 Posts
I did need to re-aim the headlights because they were way to high with the new bulbs compared to halogens.
Even when replacing bulbs of the same type and manufacturer there may be some minor aiming that needs to be done. It happens with composite (bulb separate from housing) and sealed-beam headlights. The need to reaim doesn't happen every time, but once in a while. The aim could have drifted over time and wasn't noticed, etc. I've seen it in my cars over the years.
 

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1999 Forester S
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530 Posts
I put in my 2015 Forester the GTR Ultra Series Version 3. I have the standard reflector style headlight housings not projectors. I did need to re-aim the headlights because they were way to high with the new bulbs compared to halogens. Once properly aimed they provide much brighter light and coverage than the conventional halogens.
You needed to re-aim your lamps because the LEDs you installed cannot properly utilize the shape of the reflectors in your headlamps. It doesn't matter if you use your wife's projectors or the plain reflectors in your headlamps. The new LED bulbs are spraying light in places it shouldn't be, so to compensate, you aimed the lamps lower. This is also bad because now not only have you taken light that used to aim far down the road and instead you're now lighting up the road directly in front of your car. This reflects a lot more light back to your eyes, causing your iris to tighten up, allowing in less light and so you have actually reduced your night vision.

That's a joke.

It's pretty obvious that there's no logic or empirical evidence that's driving what you type. You did mention that you are involved with a product in development so I can only guess that you are attempting to discredit products in the market segment you hope to be in. I've never once mentioned any company's marketing and have pointed out only observations and tests by third parties. So, again you're saying things that are false.
Riiiight, no logic or evidence... See my response above, and below:

Thinking of converting your halogen headlamps to HID or LED?

Familiarize yourself with how the human eye and brain works and how they interact. Our brains do A LOT of background processing and delegation. We are REALLY BAD at seeing differences in "brightness". This slide deck starts getting into the good stuff around slide 38.
I work for an OEM vehicle manufacturer, not some fly-by-night Chinese LED bulb company. We build the vehicles, not light bulbs. Yes, I'm working on a lighting project, but not some cheap plug'n'play LED bulbs. We're talking the design of an entirely new headlamp assembly for an OEM, not some $50 B.S. you can shove into your Forester.

Botnik, you're the only one here not citing anything technical, and in fact you're the only one spreading false information. All you do is argue that I'm wrong and that I must be biased and want to sell cheap LED bulbs. Dude, how would telling people to NOT buy this junk help me sell the same junk to the same people in the future? Use that logic you're so proud of...

Even when replacing bulbs of the same type and manufacturer there may be some minor aiming that needs to be done. It happens with composite (bulb separate from housing) and sealed-beam headlights. The need to re-aim doesn't happen every time, but once in a while. The aim could have drifted over time and wasn't noticed, etc. I've seen it in my cars over the years.
Nope. @ThorsHammer, bulbs are all manufactured to place the incandescent filaments in the exact same place, regardless of who manufacturs the light blub. There are many industries that do this, the bicycle industry is probably the most relatable. You can take pedals from any manufacturer and install them on any bike, much like how any H4 incandescent bulb and replace any other H4 incandescent bulb.

Besides that, most modern vehicles have headlamp assemblies that are robust enough to not "slip" out of adjustment, even over the lifetime of the vehicle. Older cars and trucks with sealed-beam lamps or older, less robust adjustment mechanisms may work themselves out of adjustment over time. However, to suggest that simply changing a headlamp bulb would require the operator to readjust their lamps is ludicrous and false.

Go read your owner's manual Botnik, there is no note/warning/caution explaining that you must re-aim headlamps after changing a bulb.

Just like in the last thread, if anyone has any other questions about this topic or just wants more information, just shoot me a PM, I'd be happy to discuss this further.
 

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2014 2.5i Limited CVT
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2,788 Posts
I've replaced the incandescent bulbs a few times with others (Sylvania Silver stars mostly) and find that they are horrific in length of life and cost. MY OPINION. When I drive with my lights on (see below) I get maybe 9 months out of a set of bulbs. And at 50 bucks a pair, that's a bunch of change.

Note - somebody mentioned that if you have LEDs in the DRL function, they shine on "high" all the time. Solution? Leave your headlamp control stalk in "ON" all the time. One of the greatest things that Subaru has done is that when you shut the car off, the lights go off. Period. The lighting circuit seems to be associated with the "key in ignition" draws and so when you pull the key out, the lights go off.

So instead of using the DRL, I just leave my light control in "ON" and don't worry about the DRL.

I did this for a long time in my 87 Subaru DL 4WD wagon (before they had model names) and has worked for 5 years on my 14 Foz.

I bought some brand on Amazon LEDs and they fit in well. Did I have to adjust my aim on the headlamps? Yes. Was it a bother? Nope. And they were massively less expensive than the Diode Dynamic offerings (really? $150 a pair?!? crikey!) Do I get flashed by other drivers? Nope. Unless I've got my aux lights lit. I've even driven behind folks and asked them if my lights were bothersome and nobody ever said "ohmygod! I'm blind!!!!".

One thing that the @DiodeDynamics folks do explain well is why some (many? most?) after-market LED bulbs are sucky. That's because the reflector housing for your Foz (or any other vehicle with composite light housings) is designed for a bulb that is X-mm long by Y-mm wide (or whatever measurement) and the bulb filament is in Z-location. Some of the makers of LED lamps have done some research and closely match the location of the LEDs to the location of the filament in the incandescent bulb. Will it ever be an exact match? Nope. Why? a filament is just a tine wire and the LED is a chip. And that chip will never be as thin as that wire.

Yes, your output on LEDs can be better for night driving than an incandescent and yet you can also get better from a higher-end incandescent.

As said, I've got some aftermarket (some brand) LEDs that plug n play into my housings, the fans and heat sinks make almost no noise - think about the fan on your laptop or PC - how often do you hear that cycle? Now put that PC in the trunk of the car, run the engine and see if you can hear the fan...

For the comment about "if I take the bulbs into my local DMV will they be street legal" - Maybe, maybe not. Chances are that the DMV clerk or cop or highway patrol officer or _________ doesn't give a crap about it. I've driven past cops at night with all my lights on (including a pair of aux lamps) and not had any interaction.... It's kind of like the argument about going 55 mph vs 56 mph in a 55 zone. There is enough leeway due to speedo error that most won't care.
 

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2018 Forester XT Limited CVT
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912 Posts
The new LED bulbs are spraying light in places it shouldn't be
It has been shown to you that when the LEDs are mounted to provide the same size/shape/position light source that there is no "light spraying" and you yourself conceded that fact.

Botnik, you're the only one here not citing anything technical, and in fact you're the only one spreading false information.
I guess it's lucky for you that anyone can use the site's search function to find all of your and my past posts and read them for themselves.

bulbs are all manufactured to place the incandescent filaments in the exact same place, regardless of who manufacturs the light blub
Of course, but there are manufacturing tolerances. I've changed many car bulbs over the years, and have had to re-aim occasionally. Admittedly, normally I never checked alignment after changing a bulb. But when I looked, sometimes the new beam was off, most often with sealed beams.

However, to suggest that simply changing a headlamp bulb would require the operator to readjust their lamps is ludicrous and false.
Where did I say it was required? I said it's usually not required. But maybe there was a defect in the o ring or something.

Just like in the last thread, if anyone has any other questions about this topic or just wants more information, just shoot me a PM, I'd be happy to discuss this further.
I'd recommend people actually do research and consult many sources. I'd also recommend they read up on people's past posts too. If you need to tell people technical information in private, that's suspicious, wouldn't you say?
 

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1999 Forester S
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530 Posts
If you need to tell people technical information in private, that's suspicious, wouldn't you say?
Nope, not suspicious at all, I would say. I simply don't care to continue debating a topic with someone who relies on marketing dribble and pseudo-science to further disseminate their brand of misinformation. (I've looked up all your old posts, not much science or source material to be found...) Sometimes the grownups have to step into the other room for grownup conversations. :shrug:

If people stumble onto our debates and have follow up questions, I'm happy to answer them.
 

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1999 Forester S
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530 Posts
...pseudo-science...
N: A system of theories, assumptions, and methods erroneously regarded as scientific.

Abstract: Pseudoscience is a claim, belief, or practice presented as scientific, but which does not adhere to the scientific method. A field, practice, or body of knowledge can reasonably be called pseudoscientific when it is presented as consistent with the norms of scientific research, but it demonstrably fails to meet these norms.
@Botnik, your position on LED bulbs and how they interact with the optics of a halogen lamp are, in fact, pseudoscience.
 

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2018 Forester XT Limited CVT
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912 Posts
your position on LED bulbs and how they interact with the optics of a halogen lamp are, in fact, pseudoscience.
Namecalling and referring to things that aren't correct or that aren't relevant doesn't make your arguments correct. Saying that all products that come from a certain country are problemic, even when not all the products being discussed are from that country, the primary ones being manufactured in the US or Europe, doesn't make your arguments correct.

Anyway, there's nothing technical to discuss (now) in this post, and I encourage people looking for lighting information to do a search and read info from various publicly-available sources, and judge the validity of the info they find. They should make their decisions on the technical information found, and not info passed privately from a salesperson or someone with an undisclosed agenda. Also, researching the authors of any posts here (or anywhere) by searching by user name is highly recommended.
 
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