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Administrator
2004 Forester XT Premium 4EAT
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Discussion Starter #1

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2010 Forester Touring
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138 Posts
Although my vehicle is a 2010, it was manufactured in Nov. '09.

I hope I have the redesigned gasket...
 

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Premium Member
2008 Forester X Premium 5MT
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8,070 Posts
Unless Subaru changed the engine block/head casting I see no reason why it could not be used in previous years. The only difference I see in that gasket is instead of the outer MLS layers being completely covered in a viton rubber, they appear to only have a silicone bead that matches up with where the blocks sealing surface is.

Some of the info on that page is incorrect also:
But it proves what I have been stating all along, a MLS (Multi Layer Shim) gasket is what is needed!
Subarus current headgaskets are already a MLS design and have been for awhile.

If I have to do HG in any previous years I will be swinging by my local dealer and making a side by side comparison and I would say there will be a 99.99% chance these will be going in.

Thank you Pleiad7 for posting


Albino83 can you check and see what part number Morries installed for your recent HGs?
 

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Resident Ninja
2011 2.5X Premium Auto
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919 Posts
Looks like the part number for the gasket they installed for me is 11044AA633, so the older version I presume.
 

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Premium Member
2008 Forester X Premium 5MT
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8,070 Posts
I am willing to bet since SOA was paying a portion it was being treated as a warranty repair in which they can only use SOA approved part numbers.
 

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Resident Ninja
2011 2.5X Premium Auto
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919 Posts
Drat! O well would have been nice to have had the old gaskets replaced with that thing!
 

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2010 Forester 2.5XP
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33 Posts
It would be nice to know when they implemented this change. I wonder if all the 2010 non-turbos got the new gasket.
 

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2010 Forester X Premium
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932 Posts
It should be easy to find out, once 2010 start blowing headgaskets we will know that is the SSDD ;) lol hahahahahahahaq
 

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2003 Forester
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16 Posts
Not looking to argue

I try to stay away from the Forums, on an occasion I look at the links back to our site and have a peek. I have no desire to get into any sort of an argument, I only want to try and clarify a few things.


It appears that Subaru did change the cylinder head and or block casting, if you look at the very center portion of the head gasket you will observe there is only one center hole in the gasket for coolant to flow through where as all of the previous Subaru head gaskets for the U.S. production E.J. series there has been 2 holes for Coolant flow.

The cooling jacket ports on the gasket suggest that maybe Subaru has changed the deck as well as they are a different shape and size, but I will know more about this when we take one apart and at that time I will post some pictures on our website. Lastly I want to measure a "crushed" gasket for thickness, as it is pretty thin and could change the combustion temperatures a bit.

Subaru Part # 11044AA633 is not a Multi layer Shim Type gasket. Please go have a look for your self at the make up of the Original gasket. It is a single piece of steel with a gasket material bonded to it. This is the updated gasket used to correct the vehicles that fell under the WWP-99 campaign and is the gasket used in production of all of the N/A 2.5l EJ 2.5l from 2003 until 2007. I am not clear about the part used in the PZEV from 08 to 09 we have not had one apart yet but from the outside it doesn't look like a MLS.

11044AA633 is also the part used by Subaru in the course of head gasket repair at the dealer level for all warranty work and customer pay as well.

I know I have heard there are a few dealers using the same gasket we(which is an MLS) use for non warranty repairs but I don't have any real evidence to back that up only that I have heard that rumor.

Subaru uses an MLS gasket For all other engines aside from the N/A 2.5l. Tribeca, 3.0, 3.6, WRX 2.0 2.5, Turbo XT 2.5l etc.

I wanted to post some pictures of all of the different head gaskets, but the rules only allow for pictures after 15 posts. there are pictures on our website, I am not trying to solicit any one, I am only trying to post some info.

I thinks its a real positive that there has been a change made I truly don't understand why it took Subaru so long to make the change, We may try to put a set of these in one of our loaner cars with some modifications if time allows.

Justin
 

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2003 XS
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169 Posts
AWDAuto,

Thanks for the post! This is very helpful. A few questions, though:

1. Pardon my ignorance, but who are you? You seem to work for an independent parts supplier or dealer but that's about all I can infer from your post.
2. What is the name or part number of the MLS gasket you use in your repairs? Do you have any other information about it? Does it hold up better than the non-MLS gaskets used by Subaru?

Thanks.

Mark
 

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Administrator
2004 Forester XT Premium 4EAT
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29,458 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I try to stay away from the Forums, on an occasion I look at the links back to our site and have a peek. I have no desire to get into any sort of an argument, I only want to try and clarify a few things.


It appears that Subaru did change the cylinder head and or block casting, if you look at the very center portion of the head gasket you will observe there is only one center hole in the gasket for coolant to flow through where as all of the previous Subaru head gaskets for the U.S. production E.J. series there has been 2 holes for Coolant flow.

The cooling jacket ports on the gasket suggest that maybe Subaru has changed the deck as well as they are a different shape and size, but I will know more about this when we take one apart and at that time I will post some pictures on our website. Lastly I want to measure a "crushed" gasket for thickness, as it is pretty thin and could change the combustion temperatures a bit.

Subaru Part # 11044AA633 is not a Multi layer Shim Type gasket. Please go have a look for your self at the make up of the Original gasket. It is a single piece of steel with a gasket material bonded to it. This is the updated gasket used to correct the vehicles that fell under the WWP-99 campaign and is the gasket used in production of all of the N/A 2.5l EJ 2.5l from 2003 until 2007. I am not clear about the part used in the PZEV from 08 to 09 we have not had one apart yet but from the outside it doesn't look like a MLS.

11044AA633 is also the part used by Subaru in the course of head gasket repair at the dealer level for all warranty work and customer pay as well.

I know I have heard there are a few dealers using the same gasket we(which is an MLS) use for non warranty repairs but I don't have any real evidence to back that up only that I have heard that rumor.

Subaru uses an MLS gasket For all other engines aside from the N/A 2.5l. Tribeca, 3.0, 3.6, WRX 2.0 2.5, Turbo XT 2.5l etc.

I wanted to post some pictures of all of the different head gaskets, but the rules only allow for pictures after 15 posts. there are pictures on our website, I am not trying to solicit any one, I am only trying to post some info.

I thinks its a real positive that there has been a change made I truly don't understand why it took Subaru so long to make the change, We may try to put a set of these in one of our loaner cars with some modifications if time allows.

Justin
Very helpful info, thanks for clarifying.

You can attach pictures to your post even if your post count is less than 15 (it's just the hotlinking that's a issue). Or you can pm me with the links and I'll add them to your post.
 

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Premium Member
2008 Forester X Premium 5MT
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8,070 Posts
That "2nd" coolant hole is in a none critical area for coolant flow. With out that hole the coolant would not have a direct path into the head in that area, however that cooling passage in the head is inter connected to the other main passages, No real loss, many used to get plugged and only a small number of those would overheat. IMHO no more so then ones that weren't plugged.

I find it interesting you say that Subaru has not used a MLS gasket for NAs. 2 sealed box NA specific top end gaskets sets I received from a local dealer to install last summer had MLS gaskets as part of the kit VS the old 1 layer composite style or single layer stamped steal gaskets. Kit # 10105AA930(for the reman block but contains the valve seals and gaskets for virtually the same price) Or was this luck of the draw in the boxes and Subarus packagers tossing in what they have on hand, the gaskets were all most identical to a cometic set I had on hand. It threw me for a loop when I opened the first gasket set and double checked the set part number on the boxes.

Welcome to the forum AWDAuto.
 

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Registered
04 Forester X, MT
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1,039 Posts
glad to see justin at AWD auto on here! lots of good info on their site!
 

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2003 Forester
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16 Posts
Hello

So yes I do own All Wheel Drive Auto.

We are an 8 bay Subaru Repair shop in Kirkland Washington. I have either at a Subaru dealer or another independent before opening my own shop in 2005 been working on Subaru's since 1995.

I currently own a 2003 Forester(wifes Car) 2002 WRX, 2006 Legacy Gt, 2000 Outback, 1993 Legacy, 1998 and 1997 Outback, the shop also has three loaner cars all Subaru's

I have been using a MLS gasket for our customers on the 2nd generation 2.5l n/a for about 4 years with very good success they are currently installed in every car above except the turbo's and the 1993 , part of our fix is the head gasket we use and part of it is the repair method making sure we achieve a 50 or better RA (refinishing average). I have also experimented with using the XT and STI 2.5l gaskets on an N/A engine as well.

As I stated before I usually avoid the forums, part because I just don't have enough time to get into debates that seem to plague Nasioc and some of the other sites. If you check out the head gasket article I wrote in 2007 you will see I try to help Subaru owners out wherever they are. Helping Subaru owners through the website is part of what I try to do with my blog, it just doesn't leave enough time to do much with all of the various forums especially if it seems the topic is touchy or there are a lot of " heated opinions" opinions. Add being a cub scout den leader with 12 boys, and just having a family it leaves little time for this stuff, and I may not post much after this, please don't consider me rude just know if you have a question and you email me it I will try to reply to you always. I really only joined and posted in response to someone stating my info wasn't accurate, I take this stuff real seriously, I have no problem admitting if I am wrong but man I really know these cars.

The last thing I would ever intend to do is offend anyone. But a few times in the past I have found my self in argument with someone who just has an opinion that differs from mine. This is my lively hood and I truly have a lot of passion for being an expert and helping Subaru owners no matter where they live its harder for me to now take it personally as its not just about my car.

I will never pretend to know all, but i don't get surprised to often.

I have never ordered in gasket kit # 10105AA930 so I really don't know the break down of whats in it. The guide shows it fits the Legacy, O/B and BAJA, but the same guide shows part number 11044 AA633 for the head gaskets. I dont know if anyone is familiar with using the opposed forces site online but it shows the 633 gasket up to 2006 as well. Maybe like you stated the Dealer put something together?

Here is what I know at this point.

To the coolant hole in the gasket, the 2000 to 2007 models have both holes cast into the heads, and cutting off that circulation may create a hot spot in the cooling system as it needs to have coolant circulating around the cylinder liners in as many places as possible or portions of the cooling system around the liners will run hot. If we try this gasket out we will modify the gasket to match the coolant passages in the heads of the 2000 to 2007.

I am just not sure how blocking off a coolant passage, would be helpful but in all honestly I haven't put a gasket in with out the 2 holes in it, so its just a guess at this point but as someone who offers a warranty on everything I do, I always proceed with caution.

Some of you may be aware that back in the late 90's through the early 2000's Subaru had a problem with contaminated coolant causing sediment and one of the results of this was the lower hole in the head gasket (amongst other things) would become restricted and the car would overheat. Restricting coolant flow has always been a bad idea on a Subaru.

There were a lot of Subaru owners that had their entire engine replaced under warranty as a result of this issue.

The new gasket also has an enlarged area for coolant circulation which suggest there is a change, I suspect that with the new Turbo location Subaru has completely changed the cooling system design including the block casting, Which appears to be a different part number and lets Face it Subaru has always liked to keep things simple and have as few part numbers as possible.

There are pictures of the 633 head gasket on my website, We have taken this gasket out of as new as a 2006 Forester for repairs to cure a leaky head gasket(oil).

Maybe after 13 more posts I can start throwing up some pictures :icon_biggrin: or if I have some time I can look into the options another member suggested.

I started on this reply this am, but got busy at the shop and there was a delay so if it seems way out of order I apologize.

Thanks guys

Justin
 

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Premium Member
2008 XS 4EAT
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9,827 Posts
AWDAuto, welcome, I think you'll find flame resistant clothing is not required here. You have an informative website that should be used by other members as well as the Washington members for the great informative reference material you provide. I've had the site bookmarked for a couple of years now.

Welcome again, hope you stick around.
 

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Registered
Ah crap.. I'm back with my 05 XS
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8,294 Posts
Justin, which MLS gasket (is it OEM or aftermarket?) are you using by chance? I'm seeping oil at my HGs (both sides) so I'd like to change to an MLS one if it comes down to it.
 

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Registered
2003 Forester
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16 Posts
Head Gasket

We are using a MLS gasket, it is made by a company that also makes gaskets for some of the Nascar folks. They are distributed by my number one parts vendor for Subaru parts.


I have had some input on the design but at that point in my life I just didn't have the wallet big enough to finance the design and build.

If its something you are going to try and do your your self, I do offer a head gasket kit, with our gaskets, there is an article and pictures under a better head gasket on our website. We also offer tech support with the purchase and a repair guide. I have helped quite a few get through the repair, the important part is the prep and torque.

Thanks to all who have been real receptive of me making a few posts.

Justin
 
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