[Black21Limited]

How is it the 2022 Wilderness has a 3,000 tow capacity when it has the
same engine etc as the 2017 Forester. What does it have that the 2017 doesn't.

The engines are not exactly the same. The '19 up is direct injected, and has a little more power.

Although the 12 extra hp is not really that noticeable. It may be in the CVT programming, ot throttle programming. My wife's '17's throttle is much more touchy than my '21.

It might show up on a wheel dyno, but not so much on the butt dyno.

Like zachavm said, the oil cooler probably helps, and I'm sure the differential gearing helps a bit too, as it takes some of the load off the CVT/engine. Not sure what they did with the brakes, if anything, as that also plays into the tow rating.

Without looking into it, it might be 3000 pounds with trailer brakes, and less without.

 

[zachavm]

Regarding the towing I forgot to mention something. The Ascent has a tow rating of 5,000 lbs for all but the Base trim. That has a rating of 2,000 lbs. Only difference I'm aware of is that the base trim does not have a CVT cooler. That is the difference one can make. I think tow ratings are often more about safety than power. All hardware must be able to handle the stress without damage.

@Black21Limited Regarding the brakes, I doubt they are different. The tow rating of 3,000 lbs requires trailer brakes. Without trailer brakes all trims have the same tow rating of 1,000 lbs.

 

[Magnetite]

Meh - I doubt that the point of manufacture has anything to do with it. I mean, it COULD be but, that sounds a bit .. fishy. Where a car is manufactured should not have any impact on measurements.

The measurements "should" meet up with the International Organization Standard ( ISO 3833-1977 ) . The ISO started life in the 40s and about 160 countries participate. Japan and the USA participate.

Agree it sounds peculiar that one manufacturing plant might have different regulations than another location. I don't know where Outback is built compared to Forester in Japan

But I didn't make up hearing what I heard. Just offering that to the Forum chat

 

[Black21Limited]

@Black21Limited Regarding the brakes, I doubt they are different. The tow rating of 3,000 lbs requires trailer brakes. Without trailer brakes all trims have the same tow rating of 1,000 lbs.

Brakes are different between trim levels, at least for '21. But as you said, it has no bearing on the tow rating. As has been mentioned in other threads, the North America/US tow rating is very conservative, so it isn't really an issue as far as brake sizing. Overseas tow ratings are 3000 lbs for all Foresters, IIRC.

The bigger rotors, etc are part of the reason I went with the Limited. I think the Sport also has the larger brakes, but I'm not a huge fan of the Sport. The stopping feel is improved over the wife's '17 Premium. Given her's only has 4000 miles more than my '21, wear isn't really an issue in the difference. It's one perk of her not driving it a lot, it makes a great comparison between the two platforms. Both cars are essentially new.

 

[Magnetite]

'a different variator pully'
Keep finding more details 🙂

 

[Naidu]

I don't know where Outback is built compared to Forester in Japan

The Outback and the Ascent for the US market are built in Subaru's plant in Indiana. The Forester is built in Gunma, Japan.

 

[Magnetite]

The Outback and the Ascent for the US market are built in Subaru's plant in Indiana. The Forester is built in Gunma, Japan.

Thought they were different places but wasn't certain.
Could be different manufacturing regulations then.

Not saying this is a cause but... Know some countries/states have standards on height of bumpers.
Obviously emissions too.

 

[Magnetite]

The Outback and the Ascent for the US market are built in Subaru's plant in Indiana. The Forester is built in Gunma, Japan.

? So is the Forester Wilderness the same for Japan retail as it is for US retail?

 

[Naidu]

Don't know if the Wilderness trim/edition is offered in the Japanese domestic market.

Even if local laws don't allow high bumpers and emissions, I don't see why they would prevent them to be built and exported to other markets where they are legal.

My wild guess, given the "manufacturing limitation" feedback, perhaps some high-travel suspension parts were not available or the assembly line couldn't accommodate something for the full suspension lift like in the Outback Wilderness. So they left it with a half-inch body lift.

 

[Magnetite]

Don't know if the Wilderness trim/edition is offered in the Japanese domestic market.

Even if local laws don't allow high bumpers and emissions, I don't see why they would prevent them to be built and exported to other markets where they are legal.

My wild guess, given the "manufacturing limitation" feedback, perhaps some high-travel suspension parts were not available or the assembly line couldn't accommodate something for the full suspension lift like in the Outback Wilderness. So they left it with a half-inch body lift.

^^^^^Assembly line had manufacturing limitation.

I was giving bumpers and emissions as an example of other peculiarities that do affect Manufacturing that's all and it does happen.

Look at this also !!!

 

[Bzimbug]

Forester will be losing customers to new Ford Bronco Sport. I’m one of the.

good luck with that! Ford has horrible reliability issues lately…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some may be confusing the big Bronco with the Bronco Sport....which the sport is basically a Gen1/2 boxy Ford Escape that’s been updated. It is a cool car. The Bronco Sport looks more like a baby Land Rover .... the Bronco is to take market share away from Jeeps...the Bronco Sport is for the cherokee, etc.

It WILL be competition for Suburu....but it remains to be seen how much, in a very crowded ...jelly-bean shaped ...mid-small SUV/CUV market.

 

[Magnetite]

Forester vs bronco sport
Subaru gained me as a customer because of the wilderness package.
WAY MORE BANG FOR THE BUCKS!!!
The Interiors in my opinion are in no way comparable as the interior of the Subaru is much better appointed comfortable and the dash layout actually looks like someone took some time to make it be good versus the Broncos sport where they just stuck a tablet on top of a plane dashboard as a screen.

Only the Badlands Bronco sport has an 8.8 inch ground clearance. The rest of the lineup of bronco sports base and Big Bend have 7.7 and Outer Banks has 7.8.
Those have the 3 cylinder 1.5 turbo rated around 180hp.
*compaired to a regular Forester at 8.7
And
Wilderness at 9.2

Even without the Wilderness the price point of a regular Forester and all the extras and the ground clearance and the all the time all-wheel-drive feature put Subaru at a better price point compared to anything Bronco sport could throw out.

If you haven't compared the two visually in person you will not know how small the back seat is in the Bronco sport .there is so much more room in the backseat of a Subaru if you're planning on using a back seat for people or stuff check it out you'll find what I'm saying is true.

Yeah I considered buying a Bronco sport in fact I was happy to see it came out in January it brought me to look at this segment of vehicles where I have thoroughly investigated broncosports Cherokee Trailhawk Toyota RAV4 t r d and Subaru product.

Ford not only lost my business because other products are better and have more things in them. Found that Ford customer service from dealerships fell into the toilet.
And their price gouging of MSRP markups made it worse.

 

[Wildernester]

Meh - I doubt that the point of manufacture has anything to do with it. I mean, it COULD be but, that sounds a bit .. fishy. Where a car is manufactured should not have any impact on measurements.

The measurements "should" meet up with the International Organization Standard ( ISO 3833-1977 ) . The ISO started life in the 40s and about 160 countries participate. Japan and the USA participate.

It is because the forester is already 2 inches taller.
The added height of wilderness increased. Causing an issue with the vehicle hitting assembly machinery in the production line.

 

[MNForester]

I had a 2020 Forester Sport. It was a good vehicle, and I was excited as to what that Wilderness edition would bring to the lineup.

I totally understand the the Forester XT is not coming back, but the Sport didn't add much "sportiness." Similarly, the Wilderness add some nice features that add "ruggedness," but I feel power should have been part of that recipe. That could help with towing, a more fully loaded vehicle, driving at elevation, etc.

Granted, most of these things are not issues to most buyers/owners, and the current packing is still very good.

I ultimately decided to swap to a Mazda CX-5 turbo. Granted, a different type of crossover and target audience for sure.

Interestingly, I noticed is while the CX-5 turbo has the same engine and transmission as the CX-9, which can tow 3500 lbs, the turbo CX-5 can only tow 2000 lbs. The CX-5 diesel can tow 3500 lbs. It could be transmission cooler difference, but doesn't seem to be wheel base or engine/transmission selection given the overlap. The only other thing I can think is tuning or market segmenting.

I am guessing my next vehicle will be electric or at least hybrid in a few years, but hears to hoping Subaru will have some interesting additions by then.

 

[tony coz]

Given that here in the land down under we have a pretty rugged outback and enjoy our country treks why isn't a right had drive version of the Wilderness made and shipped to Australia??? No doubt it's all about economies of scale but I think it would sell well down here.

 

[zachavm]

@tony coz I definitely agree with you. The Wilderness trims seems prime for Australia. I would think that if they expand their availability Australia would be the next logical region. As for why they are not yet, one thought is more strict emission requirements. Though I'm not sure if that is the case. I know that you guys have the 2.0 hybrid when we in the US don't which might hint at it.

 

[whobodym]

@bluebaru14 from over in the MPG-geek gear-head threads, we want to know, what kind of CVT does a Wilderness have? See the data plate on the right-side (passenger) door jamb. TR580 or TR690 or something else? And what rev/mile does it give in steady speed highway cruising, i.e. rpm at exactly 60 mph on a level road?

 

[_Wildburr]

I'm planning to purchase some aftermarket wheels and tires. I'm looking into BFG KO2 for my wilderness or Toyo A/T country. Slowly doing research and planning to purchase mods!

 

[gsdude]

This is a great YT review of the Wilderness in case anyone is interested. She's one of my favorite auto reviewers.

 

[LISubedude]

@gsdude I gotta admit, I was a little bummed when she popped the hood and I saw that grey primer. I get why they do it but its a pet peeve of mine.