Subaru Forester Owners Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
2016 Forester XT Premium CVT
Joined
·
745 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello all,


Thought that others might be interested to see my dyno chart....

Just Got Tuned by Chris M. at EFITUNINGTECH.com

Let me just say that this guy knows his STUFF!!!!!

It is funny how many tuners are doing opensource who aren't dyno tuning and are producing power numbers from a program based on MAF values and an accelerometer.... It just is not the same as pulling your car onto a Mustang or Dynojet DYNO.... and believe me, when you have a car tuned by someone who TEACHES EFI Tuning, it makes one HELLUVA difference!!!

Of course, Mustang dynos read lower than all others, so have your kleenex ready to wipe up your tears...




All I know is that I was told before that I had 300whp (WRONG WRONG WRONG....) and the blue lines pretty much tell you what I had before.....


THE LINES IN RED ARE THE NEW TORQUE AND WHP NUMBERS!!!! Look at that curve!!!
GOOD GOD IT PULLS LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN!!!!!!



2004 Forester XT Automatic
161,000 miles, ALL original engine, tranny, diffs, etc.

APS S/R 50 Turbo -2.4 inch inlet and I ported the exhaust turbine and wastegate entry and outlets and cut out the wastegate divider wall slightly.

APS Turbo inlet tube
STI Top Mount Intercooler
TGV Deletes
Custom Modded ARC catch-return can
stock exhaust manifolds ported
Turbo XS Cast Up-Pipe
Stromung Divorced 3 inch Downpipe
Cobb 3 inch Forester Catback
Witchhunter 850cc STI Yellow modded injectors
Perrin Fuel rail kit
2007 STI alternator
Red Top Optima Battery

Tuned on 93 Octane with a very conservative timing map, and Running 10.8:1 to 11:1 A/F the whole way up....

ONLY 15PSI of Boost!!!!....... needless to say, I was so amazed by the power and the low boost number, that I decided to not go any further on the tune, as I was originally aiming for 19psi.... I don't think the tranny will be able to hold much more than I am putting down now....

I don't have a 1/4 mile yet, but, I will once the tracks open up... I know this thing is going to have some MPH and some pretty Darn good times....



as a side note, on this particular dyno, most 04-07 STI's dyno 205 WHP Stock....






THAT IS 275WHP AND ROUGHLY 270FT-LBS OF TORQUE ON A MUSTANG AWD DYNO WITH A STOCK 4 EAT!


:Banane17:


RYNO
 

·
Pleiads' biggest leghumper
04's 2 FXT's.
Joined
·
9,263 Posts
That is dam good stuff right there!Plus being only at 15psi jeez.


joe r
 

·
Registered
2016 Forester XT Premium CVT
Joined
·
745 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks GUYS!!!

I also added this to the dyno page, so I don't know if I was supposed to start this thread here also.....

do I need to remove this one here?
 

·
Registered
2007 Sports XT 4EAT (former)
Joined
·
2,485 Posts
At first I saw "all original engine" and scrolled down too quick, I was thinking "how is that dyno plot even close to possible with a TD04??" :lol:

Great numbers for a Mustang and a 4EAT but the more important thing is that it "pulls like a freight train". :woohoo:
 

·
Registered
05 FXT
Joined
·
1,540 Posts
It is funny how many tuners are doing opensource who aren't dyno tuning and are producing power numbers from a program based on MAF values and an accelerometer.... It just is not the same as pulling your car onto a Mustang or Dynojet DYNO.... and believe me, when you have a car tuned by someone who TEACHES EFI Tuning, it makes one HELLUVA difference!!!
I don't want to burst your joy at the moment, but I can't let this one slide by w/out a counter.

Yes, the airboy spreadsheet is a more iffy. But a true road dyno setup isn't so far off. How does a dynojet or mustang work? You spin a big drum of a given weight and based on how fast you spin it up, it figures out how much power you're making.

Guess what road dyno'ing is...figuring out how fast you pushed along the mass of your vehicle to calculate how much power you're making. It's the exact same principle. Now, it's only more useful due to the accuracy of today's speed sensors. Thank traction control and stability control systems for progressing them so far.

And to the EFI tuner comment, note there are some open source tuners out there they are quite impressive themselves and may carry quite the background as well.

But again, please don't take this as an attack on you or an attempt to pull you down. Extremely happy for your results and can't wait to hear how it goes down at the track. Especially glad to see results from another turbo combination. I can only look at some many VF39/43 graphs.
 

·
Registered
05 FXT
Joined
·
1,540 Posts
Oh, food for thought as well.

Smart on not being greedy w/ the tranny. But consideration, torque is the killer of a tranny. So you're peaking at ~4000rpm. Do the counter of the typical Suby tune. Start rolling in more boost to counter the torque falling off. If you're going to push 275lbft through the trans at 4000 rpm, there's no reason not to do it at 7000 as well and make a ton of HP and pull hard down the deep end.

Realize there is a point of dimishing gains on the 2.5L heads w/ putting in more boost and not getting more power up top. Blast subaru...
 

·
Registered
2016 Forester XT Premium CVT
Joined
·
745 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Chris lives here, but I am not sure as to where he is from.... very likely from elsewhere....
 

·
Registered
2016 Forester XT Premium CVT
Joined
·
745 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I don't want to burst your joy at the moment, but I can't let this one slide by w/out a counter.

Yes, the airboy spreadsheet is a more iffy. But a true road dyno setup isn't so far off. How does a dynojet or mustang work? You spin a big drum of a given weight and based on how fast you spin it up, it figures out how much power you're making.

Guess what road dyno'ing is...figuring out how fast you pushed along the mass of your vehicle to calculate how much power you're making. It's the exact same principle. Now, it's only more useful due to the accuracy of today's speed sensors. Thank traction control and stability control systems for progressing them so far.

And to the EFI tuner comment, note there are some open source tuners out there they are quite impressive themselves and may carry quite the background as well.

But again, please don't take this as an attack on you or an attempt to pull you down. Extremely happy for your results and can't wait to hear how it goes down at the track. Especially glad to see results from another turbo combination. I can only look at some many VF39/43 graphs.



NO offense taken!!


I wasn't trying to discredit the dyno software, I was merely trying to point out that some tuners are working the numbers to show a great advantage to their tunes and "fibbing the numbers"

I fully understand the dynamics and possibilities for accuracy present in the "road Dyno" programs, but, I was given my old hp number by a guess and a simple and obviously inaccurate program that he was using by checking MAF numbers versus an accelerometer algorithm.

Thanks for letting me clear that up, as I don't want those using a well known "road dyno" program to think me a total idiot.



Chris tuned my car via Opensource, so yeah, no ninja stuff there.... obviously one of the best ways to tune a Subaru is with opensource....

:Banane17:


yeah, I figured ya'll might like to see an Oddball turbo put up a number on this....

to think that I picked up this turbo for $400 in brand new condition is hard to imagine..... the guy who first owned it said it would never put up any boost until 6000+rpm....

when I got it, it had a gap between the wastegate flapper puck and the turbine housing.....

it had a huge leak through the wastegate!!!!

EASY FIXOR!!!
 

·
Registered
2016 Forester XT Premium CVT
Joined
·
745 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Oh, food for thought as well.

Smart on not being greedy w/ the tranny. But consideration, torque is the killer of a tranny. So you're peaking at ~4000rpm. Do the counter of the typical Suby tune. Start rolling in more boost to counter the torque falling off. If you're going to push 275lbft through the trans at 4000 rpm, there's no reason not to do it at 7000 as well and make a ton of HP and pull hard down the deep end.

Realize there is a point of dimishing gains on the 2.5L heads w/ putting in more boost and not getting more power up top. Blast subaru...


Good points on ramping the boost up when possible.... unfortunately/fortunately, I am using a Turbo XS manual boost controller safely set at one point..... so, I cannot tempt myself into doing exactly this....


When I consider that this car is now pushing near twice the stock power that would be registered on a Mustang dyno, I think I will see if I can make it to 250,000 miles on the original engine and tranny first before I turn it up more.....

that seems to be a pretty darn good durability test, wouldn't you say?


My goal with the car was to merely make it as fast as it felt safe at, and I honestly think it to be near that point..... if I get to feeling really spunky, I may throw in some C16 leaded race fuel and turn the boost up to 22psi and let 'er rip at the track.....

but again, I am worried about my tranny, so I might go to a turboxs two stage manual boost controller to do this....
 

·
Registered
2005 Forester XT 4EAT
Joined
·
2,160 Posts
This really pains me, I guess my TD06-20G was the wrong choice since i was hoping for numbers close to these and i can't seem to crack 300whp on a mustang...
 

·
Registered
2004 Subaru FXT MT
Joined
·
1,841 Posts
This really pains me, I guess my TD06-20G was the wrong choice since i was hoping for numbers close to these and i can't seem to crack 300whp on a mustang...
Don't let dyno numbers get you down...its purely a tuning tool, and considering all of the variables, raw numbers shouldn't be compared.

A TD06-20g is a solid turbo choice for a 2.5L.
 

·
Premium Member
2009 Outback XT-B 5MT
Joined
·
10,241 Posts
A TD06-20g is a solid turbo choice for a 2.5L.
I can't agree with that.

On a 2.5L at 22psi, you NEVER hit the main efficiency island. Sure, the turbo does the job, but not nearly as efficiently as it could. That's why cars with a GT3071 ALWAYS perform better than 20G cars. The compressor is almost 6% more efficient at peak! So while they have similar mass-flow rates, one is FAR more efficient and makes a good bit more power.

A 20g is merely "alright" on the 2.5L... unless you don't want to run any kind of substantial boost. But if you wanted to run less boost, say 12psi, you'd cross right through the main efficiency island on a 20G, but you aren't going to be flowing very much air and you'll be incredibly inefficient at anything beyond 5800.

The better 2.5L choice is an 18G with a TD06 housing. If you are even considering a 20G, you should just pony up and get a GT3071, or a GT3076.
 

·
Premium Member
2008 FSXT 4EAT
Joined
·
4,143 Posts
Nice plot! Do you know what numbers you were making? How are you liking the APS turbo? From my research it looks like one of the best stock-location turbos, no? I have a VF39 waiting to go on, but I'm seriously thinking about an APS SR55/56/57. I'm doing all of the supporting mods right now, and it'd be a shame not to take advantage of them. :icon_wink:
 

·
Registered
2004 Subaru FXT MT
Joined
·
1,841 Posts
I can't agree with that.

On a 2.5L at 22psi, you NEVER hit the main efficiency island. Sure, the turbo does the job, but not nearly as efficiently as it could. That's why cars with a GT3071 ALWAYS perform better than 20G cars. The compressor is almost 6% more efficient at peak! So while they have similar mass-flow rates, one is FAR more efficient and makes a good bit more power.

A 20g is merely "alright" on the 2.5L... unless you don't want to run any kind of substantial boost. But if you wanted to run less boost, say 12psi, you'd cross right through the main efficiency island on a 20G, but you aren't going to be flowing very much air and you'll be incredibly inefficient at anything beyond 5800.

The better 2.5L choice is an 18G with a TD06 housing. If you are even considering a 20G, you should just pony up and get a GT3071, or a GT3076.
:) Notice I used the word "solid." I certainly didn't say perfect.

And I agree completely on the GT3071R. I sat down and plotted airflow demand lines on various compressor maps, and the GT3071R was a perfect fit for a 2.5L. 400+hp from 4k rpm to redline. There isn't a better street turbo choice out there that I'm aware of.

There are options that will make more power, but you are using the left side of the efficency island, not the whole thing like you do on the 3071. If my FXT doesn't sell in the next 4 months, it will be getting a 3071 next spring.

Sorry to hijack the thread...

Back to the op topic, I'll have to plot demand lines on the APS turbos out of curiousity. RYNO, you used a 50? I only see a 56 on APS's website. Is a 50 just an older version of the 56?

http://airpowersystems.com/wrx/aps_turbo.htm
 

·
Registered
2016 Forester XT Premium CVT
Joined
·
745 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
:)

Back to the op topic, I'll have to plot demand lines on the APS turbos out of curiousity. RYNO, you used a 50? I only see a 56 on APS's website. Is a 50 just an older version of the 56?

APS Ball Bearing Turbocharger

The S/R 50 hasn't been used for awhile, I think about 3 years or so.....


The 56 has a 56 lb/min wheel and the 50 has a 50lb/min wheel....

also, I am not sure of the exhaust turbine wheel configuration, but, I have heard that the 56 has a larger exducer and a larger turbine housing....

some people complain about the 56 being laggy..... I Know that I don't believe there is a better turbo for an AUTOMATIC 2.5L than a turbo in this size range....

One thing I have never had a complaint of is that my car being laggy.... with the new tune, it breaks the tires loose in 1st and will break them loose when I kick down into 2nd at 58mph also.....

:biggrin:
 

·
Registered
2016 Forester XT Premium CVT
Joined
·
745 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Nice plot! Do you know what numbers you were making? How are you liking the APS turbo? From my research it looks like one of the best stock-location turbos, no? I have a VF39 waiting to go on, but I'm seriously thinking about an APS SR55/56/57. I'm doing all of the supporting mods right now, and it'd be a shame not to take advantage of them. :icon_wink:

I absolutely love the APS turbo.....

I know a guy selling an APS S/R 56 if you are interested.... I was going to buy it for myself... but, if you let me know, I can get it and pass it on to you....

I decided not to buy it because my funds are somewhat low (and my wife found out about my secret money stash....:starwars:)


I have seen your mod page, and you are very much ready for one of these...

If you don't find an APS for super cheap, the ATP GT3076R and GT35R stock mount location turbos are awesome and put up the same numbers or better than the APS turbos.... ( I can sell you one of these for around $1650)


I have only seen one other S/R 50 and it sold for $850, but, it didn't look very good....
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top