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2013 X premium 4 speed auto trans
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Development of the Subaru FB25, where it all began. See link below.


ton.g
 

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2013 Forester Automatic
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To develope to become the engine oil burner......
I realize this has been a problem for a small subset of owners, and it should be addressed and repaired by Subaru.

However, it's not as bad as the High Pressure Fuel Pump Failures of the Bosch CP4.1 found in VW/Audi Diesels, which have failed as much as about 5% of the time, spraying the entire fuel system with metal bits...costing 7,000-over 10,000 per vehicle (depending upon the vehicle) to replace the entire fuel system...pump, injectors, rail, bleed lines, fuel tank. So far, VW is repairing most of the affected cars, but, they die without warning, and, VW may quit repairing them without warning, too, as the complaint has been active for nearly 4 years, now.

I'd rather have a small subset with a ring hardness (or whatever the root cause is) problem, where I'll have to watch the oil level closely until it is repaired, instead of not knowing when my car will suddenly die on the road, and hope I don't get in a wreck when it dies, and hope VW will be gracious enough to fix my car...because there hasn't been an extended warranty offered by VW...just "goodwill repairs". Goodwill can evaporate without warning....that's why we traded our TDI for the Forester.

All mechanical devices have failures. Most can be addressed and repaired unless there is an underlying fault with the design. Based upon the vast majority of owners not complaining of oil burning, I doubt it's a general design problem...it's much more likely a particular part problem, such as rings that were too hard, or something along those lines. It should be fixable.
 

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2015 XT premium The one without the fun pedal
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^^ This was one of the reasons I traded my 09 TDi Jetta in for my Forester. I also screwed up when I opted for their fantastic DSG over the 6 speed manual. The DSG's are great when they are under warranty and working correctly, however when they fail- you had better have around $6000 waiting to repair/replace them. I'll deal with the oil issue in the FB engine all day long if that's the worst I can expect from Subaru.
 

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^^ This was one of the reasons I traded my 09 TDi Jetta in for my Forester. I also screwed up when I opted for their fantastic DSG over the 6 speed manual. The DSG's are great when they are under warranty and working correctly, however when they fail- you had better have around $6000 waiting to repair/replace them. I'll deal with the oil issue in the FB engine all day long if that's the worst I can expect from Subaru.

Invader Zim!! Your a stoner aren't you.....TeeHee
 

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2014 Forester 6spd mt
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I just took my 14 2.5i in for new valve guides according to them the guides are under sized.....dunno if that is really the issue, but hey if it doesn't work new short block for me lol
 

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I realize this has been a problem for a small subset of owners, and it should be addressed and repaired by Subaru.
I have four relatives with 2011+ foresters and three of them have excessive oil consumption problems. I wouldn't even consider buying a new forester until SOA gets this issue figured out. I would almost rather have HG problems rather than the obvious piston ring issues these new engines have.
 

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2014 Forester XT CVT
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^^ This was one of the reasons I traded my 09 TDi Jetta in for my Forester. I also screwed up when I opted for their fantastic DSG over the 6 speed manual. The DSG's are great when they are under warranty and working correctly, however when they fail- you had better have around $6000 waiting to repair/replace them. I'll deal with the oil issue in the FB engine all day long if that's the worst I can expect from Subaru.
I just hope this doesn't happen with the CVT!
 

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2014 2.5i Touring CVT
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I realize this has been a problem for a small subset of owners, and it should be addressed and repaired by Subaru.

However, it's not as bad as the High Pressure Fuel Pump Failures of the Bosch CP4.1 found in VW/Audi Diesels, which have failed as much as about 5% of the time, spraying the entire fuel system with metal bits...costing 7,000-over 10,000 per vehicle (depending upon the vehicle) to replace the entire fuel system...pump, injectors, rail, bleed lines, fuel tank. So far, VW is repairing most of the affected cars, but, they die without warning, and, VW may quit repairing them without warning, too, as the complaint has been active for nearly 4 years, now.

I'd rather have a small subset with a ring hardness (or whatever the root cause is) problem, where I'll have to watch the oil level closely until it is repaired, instead of not knowing when my car will suddenly die on the road, and hope I don't get in a wreck when it dies, and hope VW will be gracious enough to fix my car...because there hasn't been an extended warranty offered by VW...just "goodwill repairs". Goodwill can evaporate without warning....that's why we traded our TDI for the Forester.

All mechanical devices have failures. Most can be addressed and repaired unless there is an underlying fault with the design. Based upon the vast majority of owners not complaining of oil burning, I doubt it's a general design problem...it's much more likely a particular part problem, such as rings that were too hard, or something along those lines. It should be fixable.
I agree. If Subaru wants to keep it's reputation with owners and potential Subaru buyers, Subaru should do the right thing, and make good with Subaru Owners with oil use issues.
 

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I don't necessarily think it's a "small subset" of Subaru owners whose FB25 engines are consuming excessive amounts of oil.

I don't think most owners of new cars even bother to check oil in new cars between oil changes because they (rightfully) don't expect new cars to be losing oil, in which case, they wouldn't even be aware that oil loss was occurring. So the problem could be much more widespread than imagined, IMO.

When I purchased my 2012 base model, I attended a new-owners' clinic during which one of the Subaru mechanics instructed the attendees to be sure to check the oil every 600 miles because they were seeing "a lot of new vehicles consuming oil." Incredulous, I said to him, "Every 600 miles?! Are you kidding?! Don't you think that's something your sales people should be telling car buyers before they purchase a car?" He shrugged his shoulders.
 

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I don't think most owners of new cars even bother to check oil in new cars between oil changes because they (rightfully) don't expect new cars to be losing oil, in which case, they wouldn't even be aware that oil loss was occurring.
I disagree with the "rightfully" qualifier. A NEW engine is more likely to "use oil" for a while than an engine that has been fully run-in. In fact, I check the oil level on every new car/motorcycle I've ever bought, before leaving the lot, and immediately upon arriving home. Then, keep a closer-than-normal eye on it for the first thousand miles or so.

If I have one that is "using oil", I get on the throttle harder, and have the engine to brake the speed of the car on a few steep downhills, speeding up then letting the engine brake the speed several times. If the "oil use" is due to unseated rings, trash caught in a ring, or a stuck ring, this technique can stop the "oil use". Of the 30+ motorcycles/cars I've bought new, or, rebuilt, I've been lucky that this has never failed me yet.

However, if it's valve guides, or something else like that, this technique will do nothing for those. The hardest engine I've ever had to quit "using oil" was a BMW Nikasil-treated motorcycle engine. It took months of hard riding with downhill engine braking before the rings finally set well enough that it settled down to not needing any between changes.

Still, my experience is anecdotal. It's not scientific enough to make any big claims about the problem/solution. There is, though, a preponderance of evidence that agrees with my personal experiences.
 

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Subaru FB25 Design Process
Step 1: find a good sieve in the kitchen
Step 2: Pour a quart of oil through the sieve to demonstrate the oil eating ability of the newly proposed FB25 engine and clearly define their expectations of creating the best oil eating engine ever made
Step 3: Pat each other on the back and begin production
 

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I disagree with the "rightfully" qualifier.
That's fine. We can disagree on that.

It's nevertheless very likely, IMO, that most new-car buyers expect that their cars won't be losing oil between the first few oil changes. I think that's the mentality of most people. Most people aren't as painstaking as you are (or perhaps as I am); not even close as a matter of fact. Check out CarFax reports on used cars sometime: it's rare to find car owners who keep up with anything even close to basic preventive maintenance, like oil changes.

And that being the case, I think the claim that there is only a "small subset" of Subaru owners who are experiencing oil-consumption issues is questionable. I think the reports on this forum of oil consumption in FB25s are possibly only the tip of the iceberg.
 

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Most people aren't as painstaking as you are (or perhaps as I am); not even close as a matter of fact.

And that being the case, I think the claim that there is only a "small subset" of Subaru owners who are experiencing oil-consumption issues is questionable.
I see what you mean...the Average motorist isn't aware of the tendency for oil consumption to be higher during initial operation, so, they aren't checking it, so, more vehicles could be "using oil" than are being reported. That's logical.
 

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Let's not turn this into another "oil consumption" thread please... there is already one to discuss that topic.
 

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For a car company that claims to be enviro friendly, these engines sure seem to waste a lot of oil !!!!!!!!
 
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