Choosing Between 2018 Forester (New) & 2018 Forester Premium (Certified Pre-Owned)

3194 Views 20 Replies 8 Participants Last post by meloon, Oct 26, 2018

soobak

Discussion Starter · Oct 22, 2018

Choosing Between 2018 Forester (New) & 2018 Forester Premium (Certified Pre-Owned)

Hello everyone! First of all, thanks for taking a look.

I am a bit torn between purchasing a new base 2018 Subaru Forester (0% APR) vs. a Certified pre-owned 2018 Subaru Forester Premium with 1.4k miles on the Odo. It was used as a dealership service loaner vehicle.

Breakdown:

2018 Forester base
MSRP: $25,401
Invoice: $24,192
Offer: $23,392
Financing: 36 mo. 0% APR

2018 Forester Premium:
MSRP: $28,147
Invoice: Not sure
Offer: $24,895
Financing: 36 mo. 0.99% APR

With TTL, the price will increase approximately by $2.4k (buying in tri-state area).

I am liking the Premium, but only at a lower price as it has over 1k miles. But my question is how much lower and if it is a good offer as-is? I'm planning to ask for 10% cut in price (that would bring it down to $22,405.50) — is that reasonable?

Would love to hear your thoughts.

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straphanger322

· #2 · Oct 22, 2018

Both prices seem high to me, especially since the 2018's should be on fire sale at this point. I guess it's to be expected if it's the first offer.

Just to give you a price comparison, I bought a brand new 17 Premium for nearly $3500 off MSRP in the middle of last year. They gotta go lower on a CPO. But then again, used car prices are inflated to begin with.

For the new car, give them a counter in the $21k range and see if you can work your way to something in the $22k range. Buying in the tri-state area sucks in general but there are some decent dealers in the bunch of mostly crappy apples.

ForesterBill

· #3 · Oct 22, 2018

You need to learn the invoice for both vehicles. In many areas of the country you can buy a new 2018 for $2000 under invoice. Since the Premium has some mile on it, you should be able to do better than that. However the CPO may muddy the water a bit. If I were buying the Premium, I would have them delete the CPO for an additional discount. After all, with only 1,400 miles on the odometer you have almost a full manufacture's warranty so I don't see a lot of value in the CPO.

soobak

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 22, 2018

straphanger322 said:
Both prices seem high to me, especially since the 2018's should be on fire sale at this point. I guess it's to be expected if it's the first offer.

Just to give you a price comparison, I bought a brand new 17 Premium for nearly $3500 off MSRP in the middle of last year. They gotta go lower on a CPO. But then again, used car prices are inflated to begin with.

For the new car, give them a counter in the $21k range and see if you can work your way to something in the $22k range. Buying in the tri-state area sucks in general but there are some decent dealers in the bunch of mostly crappy apples.

Ah, thank you for this valuable insight. I'll definitely try to bring it down as much as you've suggested. The taxes out here are insane!

soobak

Discussion Starter · #5 · Oct 22, 2018

ForesterBill said:
You need to learn the invoice for both vehicles. In many areas of the country you can buy a new 2018 for $2000 under invoice. Since the Premium has some mile on it, you should be able to do better than that. However the CPO may muddy the water a bit. If I were buying the Premium, I would have them delete the CPO for an additional discount. After all, with only 1,400 miles on the odometer you have almost a full manufacture's warranty so I don't see a lot of value in the CPO.

Hi Bill, you're right about knowing the invoice price for both vehicles — I only brought up the Premium because the salesperson brought it up as additional information while I was doing research on the base model. What do you mean by delete the CPO? I didn't know that was a possibility!

ForesterBill

· #6 · Oct 22, 2018

You described the Premium as Certified Pre-Owned (CPO). That is a warranty that many pre-owned cars are offered with. However, with the extremely low mileage I don't see much value in it so ask them to delete it for a discount. Most dealers add well over $1000 to the asking price of a used car that has been "certified". Some of this cost is justified as the dealer may have installed new tires and brake pads to bring the vehicle up to "certified" standards. However, with only 1,400 miles on the odometer, I doubt if the dealer had to do anything other than vacuuming the interior the Premium. Without the CPO warranty, you still have the remainder of the manufacture's warranty - 3 year/36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty and 5 year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty. In addition, Subaru MAY extend the 2018 CVT warranty to 10 years/100,000 miles as they have done incrementally for the 2014-2017 Foresters.

meloon

· #7 · Oct 22, 2018

Price for 2018 base seems high to me, I do not know what the premiums are going for, but below is a breakdown of my 2018 2.5i base purchase I did few months ago.

2018 Forester 2.5i Base CVT +alloy wheel package (alloy 17" wheels, roof rails and auto up/down windows)
Color: Ice Silver with Platinum cloth interior.
Accessories: Auto dimming mirror with compass, Cargo Cover, Cargo Tray, All-Weather Floor Mats
Dealer: Subaru Autobarn in Countryside (Chicago suburbs)
Internet sales / initial contact: Katerina Zachary
Salesman: David Percudani

No trade-in.
MSRP: $25,987
Invoice: ?
Selling price: $21,554.66
TTL: $2,206.78
OTD: $23,761.44
Financing: 0% for 48 months

Cheers

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soobak

Discussion Starter · #8 · Oct 23, 2018

ForesterBill said:
You described the Premium as Certified Pre-Owned (CPO). That is a warranty that many pre-owned cars are offered with. However, with the extremely low mileage I don't see much value in it so ask them to delete it for a discount. Most dealers add well over $1000 to the asking price of a used car that has been "certified". Some of this cost is justified as the dealer may have installed new tires and brake pads to bring the vehicle up to "certified" standards. However, with only 1,400 miles on the odometer, I doubt if the dealer had to do anything other than vacuuming the interior the Premium. Without the CPO warranty, you still have the remainder of the manufacture's warranty - 3 year/36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty and 5 year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty. In addition, Subaru MAY extend the 2018 CVT warranty to 10 years/100,000 miles as they have done incrementally for the 2014-2017 Foresters.

Thank you for the explanation, Bill. Much appreciated!

soobak

Discussion Starter · #9 · Oct 23, 2018

meloon said:
Price for 2018 base seems high to me, I do not know what the premiums are going for, but below is a breakdown of my 2018 2.5i base purchase I did few months ago.

2018 Forester 2.5i Base CVT +alloy wheel package (alloy 17" wheels, roof rails and auto up/down windows)
Color: Ice Silver with Platinum cloth interior.
Accessories: Auto dimming mirror with compass, Cargo Cover, Cargo Tray, All-Weather Floor Mats
Dealer: Subaru Autobarn in Countryside (Chicago suburbs)
Internet sales / initial contact: Katerina Zachary
Salesman: David Percudani

No trade-in.
MSRP: $25,987
Invoice: ?
Selling price: $21,554.66
TTL: $2,206.78
OTD: $23,761.44
Financing: 0% for 48 months

Cheers

Thank you for the insight on this — I'll ask the dealership to lower their price and see what they can offer me.

Do you like your 2018 2.5i base? Anything in particular I should pay attention to? I'm test driving it this weekend!

Koogs

· #10 · Oct 23, 2018

soobak said:
Thank you for the explanation, Bill. Much appreciated!

I don't know how much the cost is for a Subaru dealer to get the car certified. The certified warranty is 7/100K on the powertrain and doesn't affect the bumper to bumper.

Its worth something if you're going to keep it a long time, but not worth a lot to you. I don't know if I'd tell them not to certify it, but to tell them you need a better price, counter offer something lower and see what happens.
If they bring up the certified part, tell them its only the powertrain and only adds 2 years and 40K miles that you may not have the car for.
there is an option for CPO cars to get ad on bumper to bumper coverage at an additional fee.

a few things I'd keep in mind.
1) certified doesn't do that much to the car, so its not worth more really
2) any new car you buy is going to be a used car as soon as you drive it off the lot. Assuming there is nothing wrong with the loaner, its only got 1K miles, your car will have 1K miles in 1-2 months and you won't be able to tell the difference.
3) the features on the premium can be nice to haves down the line, while the new car difference between the 2 cars you're considering is fleeting.

if it were me, I'd push hard for a lower price on the CPO and get that over the base, assuming the car is in like new condition and a color you want.

mine wasn't a demo, but I bought my XT touring like that, it had about 3K miles on it, and I saved 3-4K from the best new pricing I saw online. It felt new when I bought it and I saved half the price difference between the premium and the touring.

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soobak

Discussion Starter · #11 · Oct 23, 2018

Koogs said:
I don't know how much the cost is for a Subaru dealer to get the car certified. The certified warranty is 7/100K on the powertrain and doesn't affect the bumper to bumper.

Its worth something if you're going to keep it a long time, but not worth a lot to you. I don't know if I'd tell them not to certify it, but to tell them you need a better price, counter offer something lower and see what happens.
If they bring up the certified part, tell them its only the powertrain and only adds 2 years and 40K miles that you may not have the car for.
there is an option for CPO cars to get ad on bumper to bumper coverage at an additional fee.

a few things I'd keep in mind.
1) certified doesn't do that much to the car, so its not worth more really
2) any new car you buy is going to be a used car as soon as you drive it off the lot. Assuming there is nothing wrong with the loaner, its only got 1K miles, your car will have 1K miles in 1-2 months and you won't be able to tell the difference.
3) the features on the premium can be nice to haves down the line, while the new car difference between the 2 cars you're considering is fleeting.

if it were me, I'd push hard for a lower price on the CPO and get that over the base, assuming the car is in like new condition and a color you want.

mine wasn't a demo, but I bought my XT touring like that, it had about 3K miles on it, and I saved 3-4K from the best new pricing I saw online. It felt new when I bought it and I saved half the price difference between the premium and the touring.

Thank you for putting some things into perspective for me! I am now really leaning towards the Premium since I do like some of the features it offers over the base model... You're totally right about the new car sentiment. I think that alone sealed the deal for me.

I want to thank everyone who helped me out on this forum! You guys are amazing

Beyond

· #12 · Oct 25, 2018

What you haven't told us is how you would use the Forester. For MY use I would prefer the base model. You should be able to get a much better price than you indicate. The base model doesn't have roof bars but these easy bolt on custom SSD bars are SO superior to the Subaru bars:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fits-2018-...e-Rails-Rack-Black-Powder-Coated/253948309117

They bolt right into the factory mounting studs of the bare roofed Forester. Crazy strong 1.5" diameter powder coated stainless steel (all hardware included). I use Yakima Timberline mounts/bars that clamp on and off in less than 5 minutes and are SOLID.

You have to ask yourself what features matter to you. For instance I absolutely despise moon roofs, hate electric tail gates and prefer manual seat adjustments. But that's me. I also have a canoe/canoes on my Forester almost every day in the spring through fall so the SSD bars are IMPORTANT - to me. What's important to you?

Something you might want to check out is the Subaru VIP program. Here's an example, but there's many organizations (bike/paddle/ski/etc.) that qualify:

https://www.americancanoe.org/page/Subaru

Maybe you're a member of one of them?

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securityguy

· #13 · Oct 25, 2018

ForesterBill said:
You described the Premium as Certified Pre-Owned (CPO). That is a warranty that many pre-owned cars are offered with. However, with the extremely low mileage I don't see much value in it so ask them to delete it for a discount. Most dealers add well over $1000 to the asking price of a used car that has been "certified". Some of this cost is justified as the dealer may have installed new tires and brake pads to bring the vehicle up to "certified" standards.

Once it's "certified", the cost is a sunk cost that the sales department already has with the service department. Once service certifies the car, it, typically, cannot be removed. I agree that, with the low mileage, not much should have been done if anything at all so may have an opportunity here.

benja455

· #14 · Oct 25, 2018

My wife picked up a 2018 2.5 Premium (with EyeSight) with 7k miles - it was a dealer loaner car - for $23,750 (before tax, title and tags) in July. It was CPO.

soobak

Discussion Starter · #15 · Oct 25, 2018

Just wanted to update you — the salesperson says that the Premiums were "just discounted" and so they can only give me $300 off the price, bringing it to $24,595.

I asked if going down to $22k was a possibility and he said no and suggested if I wanted a lower price, I should take the base model Forester, which they can sell for $23,392 (which is their invoice price).

What do you think?

soobak

Discussion Starter · #16 · Oct 25, 2018

Beyond said:
What you haven't told us is how you would use the Forester. For MY use I would prefer the base model. You should be able to get a much better price than you indicate. The base model doesn't have roof bars but these easy bolt on custom SSD bars are SO superior to the Subaru bars:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fits-2018-...e-Rails-Rack-Black-Powder-Coated/253948309117

They bolt right into the factory mounting studs of the bare roofed Forester. Crazy strong 1.5" diameter powder coated stainless steel (all hardware included). I use Yakima Timberline mounts/bars that clamp on and off in less than 5 minutes and are SOLID.

You have to ask yourself what features matter to you. For instance I absolutely despise moon roofs, hate electric tail gates and prefer manual seat adjustments. But that's me. I also have a canoe/canoes on my Forester almost every day in the spring through fall so the SSD bars are IMPORTANT - to me. What's important to you?

Something you might want to check out is the Subaru VIP program. Here's an example, but there's many organizations (bike/paddle/ski/etc.) that qualify:

https://www.americancanoe.org/page/Subaru

Maybe you're a member of one of them?

Hey! Thank you for the advice.

I am unfortunately not too adventurous on the water, and so I do not have a canoe or a kayak...

If anything, the Forester would see some mud and steep grades as I love to hike!

soobak

Discussion Starter · #17 · Oct 25, 2018

securityguy said:
Once it's "certified", the cost is a sunk cost that the sales department already has with the service department. Once service certifies the car, it, typically, cannot be removed. I agree that, with the low mileage, not much should have been done if anything at all so may have an opportunity here.

Thank you for that detail! I'll see what the dealership does

soobak

Discussion Starter · #18 · Oct 25, 2018

benja455 said:
My wife picked up a 2018 2.5 Premium (with EyeSight) with 7k miles - it was a dealer loaner car - for $23,750 (before tax, title and tags) in July. It was CPO.

Oh amazing! What do you think of the car? And what color!

benja455

· #19 · Oct 25, 2018

soobak said:
Just wanted to update you — the salesperson says that the Premiums were "just discounted" and so they can only give me $300 off the price, bringing it to $24,595.

I asked if going down to $22k was a possibility and he said no and suggested if I wanted a lower price, I should take the base model Forester, which they can sell for $23,392 (which is their invoice price).

What do you think?

For what is worth - there were a bunch of other dealers in this area who wouldn’t budge from $26k for their 2018 2.5 Premiums with EyeSight (all of which were dealer loaner cars). That was in July when we found that one for $23,750. I still see many of them listed for more them listed for $25k or more. Given that EyeSight is a $1500 option $24k isn’t horrible - but I’d push lower or walk.

I’ll be clear though, the Premium is worth it over the base and EyeSight is also quite nice.

benja455

· #20 · Oct 25, 2018

soobak said:
Oh amazing! What do you think of the car? And what color!

Love the car. The passenger seat lumbar support sucks but I got a $20 pad from Amazon to fix that.

EyeSight is very much worth it. But when you do that - don’t forget to get $0 insurance deductible on glass - these cars have very weak windshields and it will crack. That becomes a bigger problem with EyeSight.

She got Dark Metallic Grey with the light cloth interior. She wanted a dark interior but given that the dealership wanted nearly $30k for a brand new model with identical features - that $6,000 difference will buy a lot of professional detailing jobs.

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