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2004 Forester
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Discussion Starter #1
The dealer recently reflashed my ECM and now it runs worse. Is their equipment capable of reflashing with the original program?

None of this was performance tuning related. I just want to get some unbiased info before I approach them.

I know that the Accessport system is capable of storing and reflashing old programming.

'04 FXT 5MT
 

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2005 Base 2.5x foz
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The dealer equipment should only be able to reflash to the original programming, exactly as it came off the line. (Unless the dealer specifically does performance work and in that case they would have charged you for it)
 

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2004 Forester
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Discussion Starter #3
I had a problem related to fuel/knock. The dealer said that there was a tech service bulletin reflash for an idle problem and that it might also address the issue I had. My 2.5L turbo is a very early '04 production unit, similar to the early unit STI with similar engine and problem that had a TSB reflash.

Now they want to perform all kinds of expensive drive diagnostics and start cleaning and replacing parts. It sounds like it will get out of hand. I would be satisfied at this point with the old program that they erased from my particular car, but don't know if their equipment would have stored it as part of the reflash process. I'm certain I won't get a straight answer unless I approach them with some knowledge on the subject. Anybody know if dealer equipment stores original programs for backup purposes?

'04 FXT 5MT
 

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2004 Subaru FXT MT
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Well, the short anwser is yes, they can flash any revision they want to. You might just have to do some arm twisting. I know I can flash any rev I want to, but I don't have to deal with red tape either.
 

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MY09 XSn 2.0 Diesel 6MT
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As the thefoos rightly states, it can be re-flashed with any revision the dealer has available. So the question is, what revision was it re-flashed with :icon_question::icon_question::icon_question:
 

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2004 Forester
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Discussion Starter #6
As the thefoos rightly states, it can be re-flashed with any revision the dealer has available. So the question is, what revision was it re-flashed with :icon_question::icon_question::icon_question:
My work order indicates "new computer CID A2ZJ5121". They told me that their reflash setup had a problem so it could not produce a printout, so this info was manually put on the work order. I assume that if their equipment was functioning properly, it would also have printed the CID of the original program. That info could be lost forever.

Also, without the computer printout, where is the proof that. I got the correct reflash? Now that I have some info from this site, I'll go talk to the dealer to see if my old info is stored on their system. Any more info is appreciated.

'04 FXT 5MT
 

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07 FXT sport
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My work order indicates "new computer CID A2ZJ5121". They told me that their reflash setup had a problem so it could not produce a printout, so this info was manually put on the work order. I assume that if their equipment was functioning properly, it would also have printed the CID of the original program. That info could be lost forever.

Also, without the computer printout, where is the proof that. I got the correct reflash? Now that I have some info from this site, I'll go talk to the dealer to see if my old info is stored on their system. Any more info is appreciated.

'04 FXT 5MT
Scoobypedia is listing the following for the North American, PR & Guam 04 FXT stock ecu revisions (D if for the auto trans, I for the manual)

A2ZJ211D
A2ZJ512I
A2ZJ201D
A2ZJ500I

My impression (I can be way off) was that the top listed roms were the original and the bottom was their subaru official revised editions.

I'm guessing the their listing was a typo on your receipt and it should have been A2ZJ512I. Which wouldn't have been the most recent subaru released revision.

Somewhere my old memory thinks it remembers seeing a listed of subaru ecu revisions with what changes were applied (I want to think that Jon in CT had posted this a long time ago) I did not search, but it might be out there somewhere techinfo.subaru.net maybe??

I'm not sure with your situation, did you have a modified ecu map prior and the dealer HELPED you by reflashing and now you have problems??

dm
 

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2004 Subaru FXT MT
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Well, it is an assumption based on how you would logically rev, but I would expect 500I to be the original flash and 512I to be second revision release. So if you don't like how 500I runs, you can go back to 512I....I really wish they had rev release notes so you would be able to track down the baked in differences.
 

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2004 Forester
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Discussion Starter #9
Scoobypedia is listing the following for the North American, PR & Guam 04 FXT stock ecu revisions (D if for the auto trans, I for the manual)

A2ZJ211D
A2ZJ512I
A2ZJ201D
A2ZJ500I

My impression (I can be way off) was that the top listed roms were the original and the bottom was their subaru official revised editions.

I'm guessing the their listing was a typo on your receipt and it should have been A2ZJ512I. Which wouldn't have been the most recent subaru released revision.

Somewhere my old memory thinks it remembers seeing a listed of subaru ecu revisions with what changes were applied (I want to think that Jon in CT had posted this a long time ago) I did not search, but it might be out there somewhere techinfo.subaru.net maybe??

I'm not sure with your situation, did you have a modified ecu map prior and the dealer HELPED you by reflashing and now you have problems??

dm
I had never reflashed before and have the car from new (50km). The problem I complained about was not being able to run on amything less than 94 octane without it going into limp mode. No mods except for replace muffler with a straight through resonator.

The dealer's reflash took away about 3 psi boost and introduced a boost delay. This really killed the spirit of the engine, less power and more throttle lag! I would have accepted this, but it still goes into limp mode if I use 91 octane. Might as well go to the original program.

My next investigations are:
Knock sensor
Decarbonize combustion chambers
Water injection
Slightly lower temp thermostat

Thanks to all for the info so far. I am much more informed about reflashes now.

P.S. I might consider water/meth injection so that I can use 91 octane without going into limp mode. I don't really need more power (boost&timing). Will the stock system sense the added condensation and freakout the stock control setup? Is a modified map absolutely necessary?

'04 FXT 5MT
 

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2004 Subaru FXT MT
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^^Necessary, no. But if you run meth/water injection, the ECU will not compensate for the extra fuel when in open loop conditions.

Lower temp t-stat won't help.

You have a high performance motor. I wouldn't even consider running anything less than 93 pump if I had it available.

Honestly, some exhaust modification would probably help if you are running into knock. I know that probably seems to have zero correlation, but the stock exhaust is very restrictive and that has an EGR effect. Plus, you have a cat in the uppipe, and two more in the downpipe. That adds more heat to the engine bay.

I remember when I first got my WRX. I was on the stock map, completely stock car. When I would go WOT, it would pull 4-6 degrees of timing everytime. Once it pulled 10 degrees. I thought to myself "I really have a problem here." I plowed ahead with the mods anyway because I couldn't find anything wrong. With a catless uppipe and freed up turboback, the "knock" went away. BTW, this motor currently has 153k miles on it and still makes 300whp. Just a thought.
 

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2004 Forester
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Discussion Starter #11
Scott,

What you say about opening up the exhaust to lessen the EGR effect and possibly reduce knock, makes sense. I think I'll take care of the uppipe cat the next time I'm working in that area. I will need to leave the other cat in place for the bi-yearly idle emission test and hope it passes.

I may complain to the dealer about the unsatisfactory reflash and ask for a price break on an AccessPort. I may have more luck with a standard Cobb map rather than Subaru tuning.

I would love to use 93/94 octane fuel all the time, but it is getting harder to find in my area.
 

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2004 Forester
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Discussion Starter #12
^^

Honestly, some exhaust modification would probably help if you are running into knock. I know that probably seems to have zero correlation, but the stock exhaust is very restrictive and that has an EGR effect. Plus, you have a cat in the uppipe, and two more in the downpipe. That adds more heat to the engine bay.

I remember when I first got my WRX. I was on the stock map, completely stock car. When I would go WOT, it would pull 4-6 degrees of timing everytime. Once it pulled 10 degrees. I thought to myself "I really have a problem here." I plowed ahead with the mods anyway because I couldn't find anything wrong. With a catless uppipe and freed up turboback, the "knock" went away. BTW, this motor currently has 153k miles on it and still makes 300whp. Just a thought.
More food for thought:
Isn't the purpose of EGR to lower the combustion temperatures but substituting some air/fuel mixture with unburnable gas? With less combustion going on, wouldn't this reduce chamber temps and therefore reduce knock possibilities?
 

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07 FXT sport
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revout,

Do you know any locals that have a tactrix cable? This way maybe you could do some logging to see whats actually going on.

I'm with thefoos (imagine that) and don't and would not consider putting anything below 93 octane in the high performance engine.

dm
 
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