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2007 FSTI and X 6 MT
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im no suspension expert so lets discuss this. I have read that a "balanced" car has the same sway front to rear. So would a larger RSB help the car roatate better?

My impressions with my stock FSB and 24mm RSB(set to soft) are that it turns better but the front still rolls over in the corners. I know it needs a larger than stock FSB.

Im currently on swifts springs if it matter.

Thoughts?
 

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2017 VW Golf SportWagen 5MT
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10,784 Posts
It'll make the car corner better because the rear will step out and help you make a tighter radius turn. It's just a band aid though, the front will still push the same as you've stated. You need at least a 24mm front bar now IMO to balance it out. In a wagon, it's common to have a larger front bar than rear, sedan can get away with equal sizes. Ignore the STis as their drivetrain is different and they are more RWD-bias than us, especially the '04.

Stan
 

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2010 Forester XT
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82 Posts
On my STi (08 so its a wagon) I run a 25mm front bar (low setting) and a 22mm rear in the mid setting. This seems to let the car rotate just right. Actually I had to adjust a few things once I put on my Coilovers because it rotated too much. LOL
 

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2005 Forester XT 4eat
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4,581 Posts
Handling is a funny thing. Not everything works according to hard rules. You can put in an STI rear sway with a stock rsb, and it seems to balance things out. If you go much bigger / stiffer in the rear, it can reintroduce a lot of understeer. Also, you have to consider your camber settings. Lots of negative camber in the rear with more or less straight up and down camber in the front, which is what is dialed in from the factory is a recipe for understeer. If your 24mm rsb is adjustable, I'd go for a 24mm in the front, or 22mm all around if you want to retain civil street manners on uneven pavement.
 

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2017 VW Golf SportWagen 5MT
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I agree, the ride is worse. I have the rear bar on the softest setting now and the rear isn't riding as rough as on the stiffest setting. There is also alot more banging in the back when the bar is on the stiffest setting, I think it's my KB endlinks. I've been meaning to swap those out with the stockers to see if the banging goes away, but there is definitely less of it on the softest setting.

Stan
 

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Premium Member
'09 STI
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4,128 Posts
So would a larger RSB help the car rotate better?
Yes. It's a way to affect handling balance without making the ride too stiff.

My impressions with my stock FSB and 24mm RSB(set to soft) are that it turns better but the front still rolls over in the corners. I know it needs a larger than stock FSB.
Swaybars can't completely compensate for overly soft spring rates. Bigger front bar will help maintain camber and decrease roll. Increasing spring rates in the front will decrease roll increasing rates in the rear will increase oversteer among other things.
 

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07 Forester XT
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6,759 Posts
**Ninja edit** Black box beat me to it.

My impressions with my stock FSB and 24mm RSB(set to soft) are that it turns better but the front still rolls over in the corners. I know it needs a larger than stock FSB.

Im currently on swifts springs if it matter.

Thoughts?
Swifts aren't exactly stiff, they are stiffer than OEM but designed for "sporty comfort" Putting a larger sway in the front isn't going to make them any stiffer and you'll still lean over in the corners.



The ride is a Tad worse than the sti rsb. It was nice for the week I didn't have one.
Everything with suspension is a trade-off. OEM is comfortable because its marshmellow ride absords the bumps, handles like crap. Stiffer sway bar tightens things up, you're now feeling the road surface much more. You can't have it both ways. Either you want comfort or handling, they are at opposite ends of the spectrum but there are lots of different ways to get there, lots of different products

I'm still debating if I should put a larger front sway, I have a set of Cusco 22's sitting at home. As it stands now with 06 STI rear sway and OEM front + coilovers it rotates pretty good on the autox. I put higher rate springs in the coils which helps keep it flat in the turns on the track but even my car leans over on the autox. To kill lean you'll have very stiff, very uncomfortable spring rates
 

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2007 FSTI and X 6 MT
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22,252 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I didnt notice much difference with the sti rsb and wrx take offs during autox events, even with 245/40/18 dunlop sti take off tires. The car still rolled and plowed like a truck.

With my current set up, a 24mm fsb would make it "balanced"? So in theory, a 22mm FSB should help it oversteer? I may have asked this above, and it may have been answered. Im not suspension smart.
 

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07 Forester XT
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6,759 Posts
I haven't played with sways enough to give an informed answer. They are one of those grey area parts that isn't exactly clear and I constantly hear differnet opinions on them. If the front wasn't sucha PITA to install I'd put it on and autox with it to see what it really does then take it off mid-day and see what changes. Thats really the only way to find out, driving on the street won't tell you much.
 

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'09 STI
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4,128 Posts
There's a lot of other factors that influence handling balance. Driving style and alignment being the biggest. I don't think you'll ever get "flat" cornering without upping the spring rates a lot.
 

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2005 Forester XT 4eat
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4,581 Posts
There's a lot of other factors that influence handling balance. Driving style and alignment being the biggest. I don't think you'll ever get "flat" cornering without upping the spring rates a lot.
This, precisely. Understeer will always be present no matter what size your sway bars are if you come into a turn too fast. Also, the zero camber in the front that the factory dials in is a recipe for guaranteed understeer.
 

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Ah crap.. I'm back with my 05 XS
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8,296 Posts
+1 on alignment. i put on big sways and stiff springs and the difference really was just ride quality, some roll, and ride height. add in a good performance alignment and BAM! TURN BABY TURN! :lol:

i can work with a big rear and stock front because of the way i drive, but the determination of sway sizes really takes experimentation and experience to get down. it's like learning law--theoretical or practical.. practical law students usually understand the system better at the get-go.
 

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07 Forester XT
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6,759 Posts
To me , a proper alignment is a basic given, like putting air in your tires. All the best suspension goodies won't do anything for you if the alignment is screwed up .
 

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Ah crap.. I'm back with my 05 XS
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problem is, a lot of folks just put on some sways and since they're not lowering their car, they think an alignment isn't necessary. but in reality, if you want your sways to work well, your alignment should work in conjunction with the sizes chosen so that they're optimized in terms of really planting those rubbers down.
 

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2004 FSTI automatic
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2,643 Posts
Swifts aren't exactly stiff, they are stiffer than OEM but designed for "sporty comfort" Putting a larger sway in the front isn't going to make them any stiffer and you'll still lean over in the corners.

I'm still debating if I should put a larger front sway, I have a set of Cusco 22's sitting at home. As it stands now with 06 STI rear sway and OEM front + coilovers it rotates pretty good on the autox. I put higher rate springs in the coils which helps keep it flat in the turns on the track but even my car leans over on the autox. To kill lean you'll have very stiff, very uncomfortable spring rates
I agree with the swift comparo...no straying from lean while using these springs, period.

As far as killing lean... what spring rate did you go to, and what were initial rates...if done correctly, things shouldn't be uncomfortable.

This, precisely. Understeer will always be present no matter what size your sway bars are if you come into a turn too fast. Also, the zero camber in the front that the factory dials in is a recipe for guaranteed understeer.
Understeer is unavoidable on springs in a flat high speed corner. Offset corners, (canyon,on/off ramps) it seems much easier to regulate the rear end, and definitely a skill that can be dramatic, or mellow..depending on rsb, rear brakes, & alignment.

I was once recommended to disable the rsb during an autox...basically to try and get more traction to rear tires..but left it on stiffest setting. Altering tire pressure and pulling abs fuse helped...but pigging through corners couldn't be avoided.

Coilovers are in the works,,so swifts, gr2's & group n tops will be seeing your local classifieds soon.
 

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07 Forester XT
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I agree with the swift comparo...no straying from lean while using these springs, period.

As far as killing lean... what spring rate did you go to, and what were initial rates...if done correctly, things shouldn't be uncomfortable.Coilovers are in the works,,so swifts, gr2's & group n tops will be seeing your local classifieds soon.
My coils came with 5kg/mm front and a 4kg/mm rear, I found on the autox with hard bumps (parking lot course) or when I had the XT loaded with all the race tires/tools/floor jack and went over a good bump in the road that the rear springs would bottom out and clunk.

I bought coilover specific Swift fronts , put the front coils in the rear for a 6 front / 5 rear setup. IMO that's just about perfect, handles great on the track and doesn't lean over much (still understeers at the limit unless you induce throttle off oversteer but anything will...) and is perfectly comfortable on the street/long distance drives. I might up it to a 7/6 setup when I rebuild them but I don't want to screw up the good daily driver part.


BTW, what do you want for those SWIFTS ? With the extra powa , I'm thinking I might need better than OEM for my winter setup. You can put that money towards your new coils.
 

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04 FXT
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373 Posts
Brian, come drive my car with a 24/24 solid bar setup. I have probably 2 or 2.5 degrees of camber up front and 1.5-1.7 in the rear. I think it feels great. Still safe for a daily driver; i would hate for my DD to oversteer on a random fast corner. Anyway, i'm getting 235 Falken RT-615s mounted on my 18s Monday, so let me know if you want to try a 24/24 setup next weekend for comparison. You got my number!
 
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