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18' 2.5 Premium 6MT
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Boureesub, my '18 has a hand brake but I'll have to experiment with it to see if given too much brake it locks up all 4 wheels on packed snow.
The 14-18' hand brake uses dedicated rear drums and does not actuate the disk brakes at all so you only get rear wheel fun.
 

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18' 2.5 Premium 6MT
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140 Posts
The best drivers training in my opinion was riding a motorcycle. Yes, there are plenty of dumb folks on two wheels but on the other hand there are those who apply themselves seriously to the task. For example you can find excellent books on handling mechanics and riding skills for motorcyclists which go into discussion of body position, weight distribution, front to rear brake bias and modulation, clutch and throttle control etc. Knowing I had only 3 mils of leather between me and the road forced me to pay attention in addition to the heavy task load the rider has in comparison with a car driver.
Riding taught me to separate braking and steering in emergency maneuvers which I think most drivers should know but don't. In lieu of active safety systems I would prefer informational systems like a blind spot indicator or a windshield projection of braking distance. These keep the control in the drivers hands while providing information and situational awareness.
 

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2018 Forester
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146 Posts
@0D1USA what I meant was if the rear brakes are locked up and with the viscous coupling will it also lock up the front wheels. I'm a little reluctant to do it for fear of damage to the CVT.
 

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2016 Forester 2.5i 6mt
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190 Posts
On the other hand, statistically these driver assistance features make cars safer. That's the reason car manufacturers are adding them. They're certainly not perfect but they're getting better as sensors and especially software is improved. Not all drivers have equal abilities.
Safer for who, oh people who are on the phone texting, reading a book, texting, changing a baby’s diaper, putting on makeup, not paying attention?
 

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2019 Forester Touring
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473 Posts
Well, if you’re the guy stopped at a red light, unable to move, and some joker driving the car headed directly towards your rear bumper at 60 MPH is changing his baby’s diaper while he’s putting on lipstick and getting how-to change diaper instructions texted to him from his wife ... it might just be a tad safer for you if his vehicle has some of these anti-collision safety features...
 

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2016 Forester 2.5i 6mt
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190 Posts
My point is it would be safer to have people drive their cars instead of doing everything but drive, especially when the technology isn’t up to the task, if Boeing can’t build an airplane with the latest technology with out having them crash with skilled pilots, with a price tag higher than what most people can afford & the new car cost around thirty thousand dollars or more!
then maybe the cops should be going after erratic behavior & texting in more states!!! I have actually seen people reading a book while driving, ifI have seen it what about cops!!
 

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2019 Forester Touring
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473 Posts
I totally agree... the ideal solution is distraction-free drivers.

However, I seriously doubt the average taxpayer would be willing to foot the bill for the greatly expanded costs of getting that serious about going after distracted driving, Bring it up to your local and state politicians... see how positively they respond by what changes they actually make. Even if the $$$ somehow we’re made available, it would take the law enforcement level of a police state to enforce it, and that would never fly in the USA.

Face the facts... we‘re pretty much on our own on the road... to

If someone can devise a way to ensure (legal and enforceable) distraction-free driving, I’m all for it. Where do I sign up to support it?

However, that’s NEVER gonna happen, so the next best thing we can do is to try to reduce distracted driving behaviors by advancing technologies that, in some part, compensate for lack of attentive driving.

As pointed out earlier, even professional, well-trained airplane pilots have occasional distractions that cause serious repercussions. Technology can help, but not solve the problem completely. That’s why I’m skeptical that we’ll ever see truly autonomous self-driving vehicles anywhere other than on closed course routes.
 

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2018 Forester
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146 Posts
Since phones seem to be the most frequent cause of inattentive driving maybe technology needs to concentrate on making a cell phone unusable including games while the vehicle is in motion especially texting. If my phone rings while I'm driving I hand it off to the wife if she's with me, if not I pull over and call the party back.
 

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2016 Forester 2.5i 6mt
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190 Posts
I totally agree... the ideal solution is distraction-free drivers.
Well if self driving cars are never going to happen, the technology that Subaru & other manufacturers are using isn’t going to cut it either, just the people talking on this site attest to that & these are fairly new cars, what do you think is going to happen when a few more years happens & then what are people going to do!! I bought a MT car without all that crap for a reason! The planes crashing was due to faulty Auto Pilot like on the newer 737’s I was talking about!!! If Boeing puts out an airplane with faulty Auto Pilot for more than I can ever think of affording how is manufactures like Subaru going to sell cars with these systems for around 30,000 dollars going to work all the time in all situations!!
 

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2019 Forester Touring
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473 Posts
The Boeing case is an anecdotal outlier.

Very few pilots I know would readily give up modern automation and elect to go back to the limited aircraft instrumentation of the 1950’s.

There’s a night and day difference between creating functional driver’s assistants and creating a truly autonomous driving vehicle.
 

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2019 Forester Touring
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473 Posts
Allow me to cut to the chase... The electronic driver’s assistants Ship set sail a long time ago.

Ten years from now, it will be impossible to purchase a new vehicle without anti-collision features, lane departure warning systems, etc., just as it’s impossible to purchase a new vehicle today without airbags (look at how much difficulty was caused by defective Takata airbags, yet there are no airbag-free new vehicles today), backup cameras, etc. Technical issues will arise, then they will get resolved. And, this will happen in large part due to the inability/unwillingness of the average driver to pay adequate attention to the required driving functions.

It has nothing to do with whether we think it’s appropriate or not, but it IS the way it’s gonna be.
 

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2018 2.0 FXT-Touring CVT
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2,764 Posts
And... I then read this.


I think the current state of Subaru automation is the least of our concerns.
 

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2018 2.0 FXT-Touring CVT
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2,764 Posts
@FelineFreddie - I won't carp. If they do away with what I want? I'll go and get it elsewhere. The getting rid of the FXT made me look at them sideways. Subaru's current stable of hybrid vehicles can't even be called a joke. I say that as an owner and lover of the brand. If that's all their future holds? I shan't go there with them.
 
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