2019 owners, do you feel 33MPG fuel economy improvement vs to previous 32MPG model?
2019 - Fuel economy improvement?
('19+)
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I'm averaging between 26-28mpg based on the digital readout on the screen, a lot of city driving, start and stop constantly. I can only imagine long road trips will average me 30mpg or more...
I really get tired of hearing about this break-in period for Subaru and giving the company a pass for their inflated MPG ratings. I have personal experience with 4 Subaru vehicles and currently own a 2012 Forester. I like many things about the car. But the Sticker MPG figure on this car and all of my other Subaru vehicles was generally unreachable in my driving experience on the roads that I traveled.
My Forester has very seldom achieved its stated highway mileage under a normal, keeping up with traffic road trip per ACTUAL calculation. It has on many occasions reached it on the trip computer. The variance of computer MPG to Actual MPG is often 3 to 5% and ALWAYS higher than actual computed mileage. On the seldom occasions that I realized its stated highway mileage it was because: I watched my tack and kept the car at a sweet spot on a turnpike run (If I remember correctly -- 2750ish and exactly 71 MPH), I was between rest stops on the turnpike or straight highway, I was on a very flat portion of a trip with no head wind, and the outside temperature was warm or hot. Change any of those factors and I am under the stated mileage. Factoring in all of my mostly highway trips over the first 4.5 years of ownership (i.e. excluding tanks with mostly city mileage) I had a computed MPG of 25.8. In my opinion, the window sticker MPG should be achievable on any long highway trip using interstate highways. Some portions of the journey should exceed the MPG (long, interrupted stretches between rest stops with no traffic), some should be under (traffic portions, hilly, headwind). But the AVERAGE should meet the sticker. It never happened with this car.
My wife’s 2012 Impreza Sport was even worse than the Forester with regard to its actual MPG. It NEVER achieved its stated 36 MPG rating based on calculation -- the Max was 34.8. The trip computer was also worse than the Forester. It was several times off by over 10% with an average discrepancy of over 7% -- ALWAYS higher than actual. We kept that car for over 40K. So I guess it never exited its “break-in” period. I had the car checked by the dealership 3 times expecting some issue but was told that there was none.
Let’s contrast this with the 2017 Honda CRV that we purchased (new) to replace the Impreza. On its first highway trip (one taken many times with both the Forester and the Impreza), it EXCEEDED its sticker MPG on portions of the trip and completed it with an MPG of 32.6 – just .4 under its sticker rating of 33MPG. This was just flat out running the car, keeping up with traffic (often over 75MPH) and enjoying the ride. In my entire time of ownership with the 2012 Impreza I only had an actual MPG greater than this on one portion of one trip!! I find that totally amazing. Since this first trip, the CRV has exceeded its MPG rating many times on portions of trips and on more than a few when factoring in the complete trip – something that none of my Subaru’s had ever accomplished.
I don’t need to hear from anyone about the different drive systems of the cars, the all-time all wheel drive versus the Honda primarily front-wheel drive system, the break in period of the differential fluid, and the myriad of other excuse. The sticker MPG of the car that you purchase should reflect the AVERAGE of what you should get with normal driving. You should be able to exceed it under the ideal conditions that you get on an interstate without being a nuisance driver moving at whatever speed Subaru used to get its stated MPG rating. In my experience, the sticker MPG of the Honda is achievable and the sticker MPG of the Subaru is not.
In conclusion I will just say that there is a lot to love about my Subaru Forester. I love the safety and security of the all-wheel drive system. I love the visibility. I lover the feel of the drive. I may even purchase another one when I tire of my current Forester. BUT – do not buy a Subaru for its MPG and do not expect to get the stated highway miles that they list on the sticker—at least up to the 2012 model year.
My Forester has very seldom achieved its stated highway mileage under a normal, keeping up with traffic road trip per ACTUAL calculation. It has on many occasions reached it on the trip computer. The variance of computer MPG to Actual MPG is often 3 to 5% and ALWAYS higher than actual computed mileage. On the seldom occasions that I realized its stated highway mileage it was because: I watched my tack and kept the car at a sweet spot on a turnpike run (If I remember correctly -- 2750ish and exactly 71 MPH), I was between rest stops on the turnpike or straight highway, I was on a very flat portion of a trip with no head wind, and the outside temperature was warm or hot. Change any of those factors and I am under the stated mileage. Factoring in all of my mostly highway trips over the first 4.5 years of ownership (i.e. excluding tanks with mostly city mileage) I had a computed MPG of 25.8. In my opinion, the window sticker MPG should be achievable on any long highway trip using interstate highways. Some portions of the journey should exceed the MPG (long, interrupted stretches between rest stops with no traffic), some should be under (traffic portions, hilly, headwind). But the AVERAGE should meet the sticker. It never happened with this car.
My wife’s 2012 Impreza Sport was even worse than the Forester with regard to its actual MPG. It NEVER achieved its stated 36 MPG rating based on calculation -- the Max was 34.8. The trip computer was also worse than the Forester. It was several times off by over 10% with an average discrepancy of over 7% -- ALWAYS higher than actual. We kept that car for over 40K. So I guess it never exited its “break-in” period. I had the car checked by the dealership 3 times expecting some issue but was told that there was none.
Let’s contrast this with the 2017 Honda CRV that we purchased (new) to replace the Impreza. On its first highway trip (one taken many times with both the Forester and the Impreza), it EXCEEDED its sticker MPG on portions of the trip and completed it with an MPG of 32.6 – just .4 under its sticker rating of 33MPG. This was just flat out running the car, keeping up with traffic (often over 75MPH) and enjoying the ride. In my entire time of ownership with the 2012 Impreza I only had an actual MPG greater than this on one portion of one trip!! I find that totally amazing. Since this first trip, the CRV has exceeded its MPG rating many times on portions of trips and on more than a few when factoring in the complete trip – something that none of my Subaru’s had ever accomplished.
I don’t need to hear from anyone about the different drive systems of the cars, the all-time all wheel drive versus the Honda primarily front-wheel drive system, the break in period of the differential fluid, and the myriad of other excuse. The sticker MPG of the car that you purchase should reflect the AVERAGE of what you should get with normal driving. You should be able to exceed it under the ideal conditions that you get on an interstate without being a nuisance driver moving at whatever speed Subaru used to get its stated MPG rating. In my experience, the sticker MPG of the Honda is achievable and the sticker MPG of the Subaru is not.
In conclusion I will just say that there is a lot to love about my Subaru Forester. I love the safety and security of the all-wheel drive system. I love the visibility. I lover the feel of the drive. I may even purchase another one when I tire of my current Forester. BUT – do not buy a Subaru for its MPG and do not expect to get the stated highway miles that they list on the sticker—at least up to the 2012 model year.
I would suggest checking fuelly.com if you haven't done so already. Not much data on the 19's yet but you can scroll through other years to see what people are actually getting.
Subaru Forester MPG - Actual MPG from 3,905 Subaru Forester owners
Take a look!
Probably not a fair comparison but my '18 FXT is EPA rated at 23 city / 27 highway (I think?). I've got 5k miles on it now and have been anywhere from 21mpg to 26mpg. Most of my miles have a lot of short trips though. On a long highway trip I think it would exceed the rated 27mpg. Plus, we didn't buy an XT to baby it either... >
Subaru Forester MPG - Actual MPG from 3,905 Subaru Forester owners
Take a look!
Probably not a fair comparison but my '18 FXT is EPA rated at 23 city / 27 highway (I think?). I've got 5k miles on it now and have been anywhere from 21mpg to 26mpg. Most of my miles have a lot of short trips though. On a long highway trip I think it would exceed the rated 27mpg. Plus, we didn't buy an XT to baby it either... >
I think you misunderstand what these figures are for. They do not necessarily reflect real life use, but are derived by a standardized test which all manufacturers follow to get a figure to be used when comparing different cars.
Depending on your driving style, the mix of urban and highway use, etc, your MPG will almost certainly be different, but if the MPG figure of another vehicle is say 10% better/worse than your Forester that is also likely to be the case in real life.
Perhaps I do misunderstand but ---
I am talking about the same trip(s) with different cars. The Subaru does NOT hit the stated sticker MPG. The Honda does. Consumers expect the HIGHWAY MPG stated on the sticker to be a guideline for what they could expect to get with their highway driving. In my original statement, I have e eliminated my urban and city driving tanks of gas and I am specifically comparing just my highway runs (which I always endeavor to isolate for MPG calculations). I stand by my statement that the Honda meets the sticker MPG and the Subaru does not. So, based on your statement, it appears that Subaru has built their cars to maximize the MPG for whatever parameters are present of the EPA test. These almost certainly do not match the speeds that the general consumer will be required to drive on the current interstate highway system.
Again, I am not knocking the Subaru vehicle. I love my Forester. I just wish that Subaru would present a more realistic value for their cars on the sticker and that people would not have to defend these figures with the "break in period" and other statements when there are other cars that will meet their stated values right off the lot.
Just came back from 600 mile round trip in our Forester Limited. We averaged 33.7, I was surprised. There was very little traffic and had cruise control set to 65 most of the time.
Our normal driving habits, which consist of 10% highway / 90% street, has been giving me around 23-25 MPG. It's a pretty populated area with a lot of stopping. For the size of the car and what's under the hood I kind of expected these figures.
So I guess if you were to be on the highway with favorable conditions for an extended period, 33 is attainable, but I'd expect you wouldn't see that MPG number much.
Our normal driving habits, which consist of 10% highway / 90% street, has been giving me around 23-25 MPG. It's a pretty populated area with a lot of stopping. For the size of the car and what's under the hood I kind of expected these figures.
So I guess if you were to be on the highway with favorable conditions for an extended period, 33 is attainable, but I'd expect you wouldn't see that MPG number much.
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For someone with so much opinion do you actually know how the numbers are calculated or what they represent?
The numbers are for comparison ONLY between like vehicles. These aren't figures that you're supposed to be getting out in the real world.
Straight from the Feds:
Final rule that set new methods for calculating fuel economy label estimates posted on window stickers of new cars and trucks for model years 2008 and beyond; and to require fuel economy labeling for medium-duty passenger vehicles beginning with the 2011 model year. These estimates help consumers compare the fuel economy of different vehicles for both city and highway driving. This new rule makes three important changes.
Do you know winter fuel lowers MPG as well?
Nice rant though.:wink2:
I've had my 2018 Forester 2.5 L for about 54 weeks. I've averaged since day one, 27.5 mpg. On the highway, I often hit 32 to 35 mpg. It is quite possible that the Subaru computer is rigged and the mileage I achieve is wrong. But remember, the EPA mpg on the car sticker is not accurate because the mpg is calculated in a laboratory setting. One more thing, many of the car companies in recent years have found ways to overstate their mpg. Let that play into the ineptitude of any government calculation, and your disappointment is justified.
I don't think the computers are rigged, just that the way they calculate fuel consumed isn't overly accurate. For what it's worth though, the display on my FXT is ALWAYS higher than what I hand calculate at each fillup (1-2mpg higher). My F150 is the same way though, it usually is about ~0.5MPG optimistic. My parents fusion hybrid is one of the few vehicles I've seen that is usually pretty darn close. I've seen it both both slightly higher and slightly lower than the hand calculation.
Moral of the story, if you want to know what you are really getting then calculate it by hand at each fillup. :thumbsup:
Out of the many new cars I have owned over the last 55 years I can say for positive that there has never been any improvement after "break-in". That holds for my 18XT.
The display on our '15 FXT is always 5-10% optimistic, also. The best tank of HWY mpg we've achieved was 29, coming back to Dallas from Denver. On average, it does 25-27 Hwy, 19-24 City, depending on who drives and how much stop and go traffic we get stuck in.
And we did not purchase the FXT for its gas mileage.
And we did not purchase the FXT for its gas mileage.
Yes, I know that winter fuels result in lower gas mileage.
Yes I know that cold weather can affect the mileage.
Yes I know that the numbers are for comparison.
Yes I know that traffic and terrain will affect mileage.
Yes, I have strong opinions about this.
Yes I know .....
My main point is that the forum is full of people that are disappointed about their mileage being so far under the sticker and then full of replies telling them why it is so. Then my counter point is that my 2018 Honda CRV that I purchased new did indeed meet the stated highway MPG on its sticker on my first highway run!
So for comparison purposes or not, the Honda met its MPG rating in real life driving conditions. I achieved this using the same roads that I traveled with my Forester and Impreza, same driver, same terrain, same weather, and same gas stations. If the numbers are truly for comparison to like vehicles then why not just provide a letter grade or a number rating like a test in school. My contention is that if you provide me with a “Highway MPG” value, then it sets my expectations for the car to achieve that value. I did indeed do so with the Honda CRV (and continue to do so with each highway trip). I cannot say the same of my Subaru vehicles. The Impreza was absolutely horrid with regard to the sticker mileage and often did not even reach its combined rating when on straight highway runs.
Why is Honda accurate with real life driving and Subaru so far off with the same driving conditions?
Bottom line: Unless you find the sweet spot for the vehicle and can drive with that in mind (or use the MPG indicators in the car and constantly monitor your driving), you will likely not achieve the stated MPG values. The Subaru looses its “fun to drive label” if you do this. Enjoy the drive, feel comfortable with the safety, but know that under real life driving conditions, you did not purchase a Subaru for the MPG stated on its sticker.
Yes I know that cold weather can affect the mileage.
Yes I know that the numbers are for comparison.
Yes I know that traffic and terrain will affect mileage.
Yes, I have strong opinions about this.
Yes I know .....
My main point is that the forum is full of people that are disappointed about their mileage being so far under the sticker and then full of replies telling them why it is so. Then my counter point is that my 2018 Honda CRV that I purchased new did indeed meet the stated highway MPG on its sticker on my first highway run!
So for comparison purposes or not, the Honda met its MPG rating in real life driving conditions. I achieved this using the same roads that I traveled with my Forester and Impreza, same driver, same terrain, same weather, and same gas stations. If the numbers are truly for comparison to like vehicles then why not just provide a letter grade or a number rating like a test in school. My contention is that if you provide me with a “Highway MPG” value, then it sets my expectations for the car to achieve that value. I did indeed do so with the Honda CRV (and continue to do so with each highway trip). I cannot say the same of my Subaru vehicles. The Impreza was absolutely horrid with regard to the sticker mileage and often did not even reach its combined rating when on straight highway runs.
Why is Honda accurate with real life driving and Subaru so far off with the same driving conditions?
Bottom line: Unless you find the sweet spot for the vehicle and can drive with that in mind (or use the MPG indicators in the car and constantly monitor your driving), you will likely not achieve the stated MPG values. The Subaru looses its “fun to drive label” if you do this. Enjoy the drive, feel comfortable with the safety, but know that under real life driving conditions, you did not purchase a Subaru for the MPG stated on its sticker.
That's about what our '15 gets.
Never rely on the window sticker numbers. None of us could ever drive the way that is needed to hit those optimized numbers.
And there are alternative realities; if they fudge the numbers, what happens? Nothing.
I guess he went back to the Honda board..so I am wasting my time.
It takes a minimum of 30 events to get even an approximate clue of a statistical population. In other words you could have to compare samples of 30 subarus against 30 hondas. Why did I just wast a couple minutes of my life.
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So basically you know, but still gonna ***** about it.
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