2017 - A Rash Oil Experiment?

542 Views 33 Replies 15 Participants Last post by Black21Limited, 4 h ago

whobodym

Discussion Starter · 1 d ago

2

I just put 5.5 quarts of this in my 2017 XT 2.0 turbo yesterday. The thin 0W spec should mean the cold-start economy benefits like 0W-20 oil will happen before my engine warms up, but its warm-oil 30 viscosity rating will the same as Subaru-required 5W-30 oil when the engine is warm and pushing hard with its operating regime at its most-unlike NA 2.5L Subaru engines. I bought the oil at O'Reilly's in Seattle, not anywhere exotic, but its appearance on the shelf there is new. Oddly there is no sign of any API oil rating grade at all, old or new, good or bad (SN, SP, or any earlier ones). I speculate that this is due to Mobil not having completed the API qualification process yet, not because of any oil quality deficiency. But clearly, this is all on me. I'm going to drain this new oil in 5,000 miles or less, which should be completed by mid-summer this year. (my Forester is one-owner, now 94,000 miles, has always had 5,000 mile change intervals, and still today consumes nearly zero oil between changes). I'll report again if anything strange happens. Authoritative comments, please?

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DragonSubie7

· #2 · 1 d ago

Rash?

TTiimm

· #3 · 1 d ago

What does "cold-start economy benefits" mean? What benefits?

Sincerely asking. Not trying to challenge.

whobodym

Discussion Starter · #4 · 1 d ago

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whobodym

Discussion Starter · #5 · 1 d ago

TTiimm said:
What does "cold-start economy benefits" mean? What benefits?

Thinner oil reduces engine internal friction and increases fuel economy. The whole 40-year history of engine design has been going in this direction. My 1977 VW Rabbit required 20W-50 oil (and cranked very slowly in the winter).

bman400

· #6 · 1 d ago

That oil is not and IMHO should not be used in the Subaru. Why? See those 229.31, 229.51, etc....Those are VW and MB Diesel engine oil specs. We in the Diesel world hate this oil because it's not as good for lubrication. It's primarily specified for MW, VW to protect the device we hate (DPF- Diesel Particulate Filter). There is no benefit for your Subaru to be using this oil.

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DragonSubie7

· #7 · 1 d ago

I know what it means.
The definition doesn't seem to apply, as the post is the polar opposite.

DragonSubie7

· #8 · 1 d ago

Looks like just another what's the best oil thread has been hatched.

whobodym

Discussion Starter · #9 · 1 d ago

DragonSubie7 said:
Looks like just another what's the best oil thread has been hatched.

maybe that's the most rash part

Reactions: 1

whobodym

Discussion Starter · #10 · 1 d ago

@bman400 , do you have a narrative about what aspects of DPF-protection are bad for gasoline engines? Irrelevant and bad aren't at all the same thing. And are you arguing that in cold engines, 0W and 5W oils don't have different viscosity?

TTiimm

· #11 · 1 d ago (Edited)

whobodym said:
Thinner oil reduces engine internal friction and increases fuel economy. The whole 40-year history of engine design has been going in this direction. My 1977 VW Rabbit required 20W-50 oil (and cranked very slowly in the winter).

OK, thank you.

I get the friction part but would ask about the lighter oil and mileage when cold. Is it that lower viscosity improves mileage in general, or does it reach operating temperature faster than say, a 5W-30? I ask because I drive my 2015 XT very easily until it reaches operating temperature. It sometimes takes a loooooong time to do so. The topic does interest me but maybe I'm just conflating two different concepts.

Again, not trying to challenge. Sincerely trying to understand.

As an aside, I ran Mobile 1 EPS 5W-30 for about 60,000 miles until Pep Boys stopped selling retail and it was no longer available in my area. I can't say whether it hurt or harmed the engine but like yours, my 2.0 with 119k miles uses zero oil between changes. The only thing I can say with certainty is that it was pricey.

whobodym

Discussion Starter · #12 · 1 d ago

@TTiimm I'm mostly going on engineering intuition, but I'm sure that what happens is, you get better MPG during the time the engine is cold. And only that. Reducing friction produces less heat, and needs less gasoline combustion to be overcome, so I cannot imagine any physical reason how thin oil could cause faster warmup.

TTiimm

· #13 · 1 d ago

OK. Fair enough.

Again, and as an additional data point, I ran the EPS product in the XT for over 60,000 miles so there is a basis for believing that it won't cause instant, catastrophic failure.

Vishnu

· #14 · 1 d ago

If it doesn't have an S, as in spark ignition, rating (SP or SN) then it's b-a-d for a gasoline engine. Too much something...maybe zinc.

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whobodym

Discussion Starter · #15 · 1 d ago

I probably should have looked this up earlier, but there is plenty of technical detail about the "ACEA C3" oil specification. Understanding European Oil Standards: ACEA Specifications - Valvoline™ Global Europe - EN

bman400

· #16 · 1 d ago

whobodym said:
@bman400 , do you have a narrative about what aspects of DPF-protection are bad for gasoline engines? Irrelevant and bad aren't at all the same thing. And are you arguing that in cold engines, 0W and 5W oils don't have different viscosity?

Note this is going off topic, and creating another oil thread.

The reason many in the MB and VW Diesel community hated this oil is the viscosity. Many preferred the older 229.3 which was 5W-40 and many felt it lubricated better. The newer 229.31 and especially the 229.52 they got rid of the 5W-40 and went 5W-30. There is speculation in the MB world that change increases timing chain stretch with the MB 3.0L Bluetec engines. And the same applies to VW 3.0L TDI Engines.

There are other changes in the oil besides viscocity changes to better protect the DPF, these included lower SAPS(Sulphated Ash Phosphorous Sulfer). Phosphorous is an anti-wear additive, which is being reduced in this oil to protect the DPF/GDF(Gasoline Particulate Filter). Sulfur is an anti-oxidant additive.

So the lower of both those additives is why many in the Diesel Community and Euro GDI community don't like these oils. They're trying to protect and save the DPF and GPF(Not done in the US), and at the same time sacrifice loss of anti-wear and anti-oxidant needed.

IMHO, Unless Subaru has installed GPF(Gasoline Particulate Filter), I would avoid using this oil if you want to retain higher anti-wear and anti-oxidant additives in your oil.

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boureesub

· #17 · 1 d ago

I don't know @whobodym. Even for an experimentalist like me, running an oil lacking any of the specifications for my car, yet having specifications for a diesel just doesn't sound like a good idea. How do you even determine success?

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donkpow

· #18 · 1 d ago

Okay, you can laugh if you want to but when I was in the service, I practically bathed in synthetic oil. Ultimately, I got a case of dermatitis that lasted for decades. Worse than 'another best oil thread' hatched or unhatched.

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FelineFreddie

· #19 · 1 d ago

boureesub said:
I don't know @whobodym. Even for an experimentalist like me, running an oil lacking any of the specifications for my car, yet having specifications for a diesel just doesn't sound like a good idea. How do you even determine success?

That, as the old saying goes, is the $64,000.00 question…

adc

· #20 · 1 d ago

You are overthinking unless you get well below 0F there is not a whole lot of difference between the two. I recall starting a vehicle 40 years ago with 10W-30 Mobil 1 no problem. I realize we like to argue about.

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