No one really messes with the NA engines for power gains. From the research I've done, Subaru has already maxed out the NA motor for fuel economy, which for the most part results in maximum power. You can only do so much with a 2.5L 4 cyl.
I submitted a definition request for a 2013 premium a few weeks ago, and have not heard anything back yet. My interest there was in tweaking the mapping for the obscenely sensitive accelerator pedal.
It would seem so. I took a quick peek in the experimental definition forum, and there are definitions for the 2014 WRX, STI, and Legacy in there. It would be a matter of someone that wants to tinker with the 2014 Foz to pull their ROM and request a definition. I got lucky, the 2012 was already defined, and the 2013 was an identical match for the areas of interest. I would imagine there were some bigger changes for the new 2.5i
I looked into tuning my 13 Forester that is fitted with a Nameless axle-back exhaust and a AEM dry filter in the air box. The answer I received from multiple Subaru tuners was overwhelmingly - trade it in for the XT. Throttlehappy here on the forums has provided some info on tuning the FB engine though. On a side note I happen to work with a fellow new NA Forester who has a brother that works for one badass Subaru tuning shop here in Wa state. So maybe there is hope for us after all. Fingers crossed:shrug:
Does anyone have an update on this? I am looking to get my feet wet with this, going into it knowing that there isn't going to be a drastic change. I just got my tactrix cable in last week and have been doing some data logging to see how my '12 forester premium MT runs. It has a K&N drop in filter and Nameless axle back for now. Does anyone have any suggestions on what the A/F ratios "should" be for this motor? I feel like slowly changing the fuel map and watching the result on the A/F ratio would be a good starting place for me to learn.
there is a **** ton of seed combinations... Guess we will have to wait, even to pull the rom.
Why get the 2.5i OVER the xt? because of a clutch :woohoo:
is it too much to get a definition? cause what if i get a check engine light i want disabled... Also it seems GUTLESS, below 2500rpm.. I'm sure we could fix that with a tune.
My buddy is a popular tuner on here. He actually was able to tune a tribeca believe it or not and was able to open up some noticable throttle response and power. of course its N/A but i know people with a N/A car would like a little better over all performance. you wont compete with an XT on power but just get a cleaner and more fun N/A foz.
The FB25 takes to tuning much better than the EJ253. If you have the manual gearbox you'll appreciate the increase in torque which means you can keep it in 5th gear up hills or pull better without gearing down. For pure 0-60 times there's only a small amount in it as there's no real gains in peak power.
You should have improved cruising economy thanks to better AFR and increased timing advance.
Also, do you mind providing more details on this statement of yours?
"The FB25 takes to tuning much better than the EJ253."
As far as I've been able to read around the forum there are few people able to tune or to do something about FB25 engine's performance. If you know something, please do share.
I do have a 6MT 2016 Forester and I'm interested to get some torque out of it in the lower rpm ranges and maybe some more HP. Not interested to race the car, just to make it enjoyable.
I think that the ideal parameters for this type of engine on this Forester model would be around 200-220 HP with the 180-200 lbs*ft torque in the 2500-3500 RPM range, with no turbo application included. The car's response on a manual transmission would be truly awesome.
One thing I can say for sure after tinkering in Rom Raider for a while... The DBW requested torque map and the whole plethora of timing maps from the factory need some help in the manual tranny cars. The pedal is way too sensitive for optimal control, and the ignition timing might as well be from a random number generator. It seems to me they took the maps used in the Auto ECM and stuffed them right into the Manual ECM without any changes.
The ECU has 8 maps to chose from just for base timing alone, and it frequently changes between 2 or more of these maps when accelerating from a stop. Some of those maps require a ramp change of over 17 deg, which results in a trailer hitching sensation when the ramp occurs. Smoothing and blending the maps makes for a much smoother power delivery in the manual. The auto tranny cars simply unlock the converter during most of the timing horseplay and it goes unnoticed.
I'd like to get rid of the rev hang that's super annoying going up through the gears and do something about that rough acceleration. Trailer hitching seems like a decent explanation. Kind of a light bucking at lower rpm. Any way to get a tune for a 17 2.5i 6M?
I have a 2014 base 2.5i that has been updated with a few modifications. For a quick fix that is not quite a tune, try Pedal Commander. It installs between your DBW pedal and factory connector. I have had it for about a month and besides some very minor complaints, it works out of the box. I even verified that it would work with the 2014 2.5i before purchasing it. (Made the sales rep put it on their website as a viable vehicle )
Complaints: make sure the connectors are really secure. I installed it first and test drove, seemed to be very boggy and limp, then no pedal response at all. Spoke on the phone with one of their reps and they were about to send me a new one. Disconnected the connection to the car (not the pedal) and reconnected and has had no problems since. Called back the company to stop them from sending me a 2nd controller. I'd have to say awesome customer service.
You have to cycle through the modes to switch. Knob switch or individual selector would be better.
Ended up getting a harmonic balancer (Fluidampr) and now it's accelerating like a different beast and the balancer smooths out the acceleration and the transmission does not shake until hitting the higher rpm range.
So the name of the game is a throttle controller. We might see more companies coming out with more of these in the future. (Cusco has one for the brz and there were others but no one currently is willing to say they support our 2.5i Mt buddies except for Pedal Commander at this time.)
Oh yeah one of the things to do when trouble shooting was to start the car on and off 5-10 times to fix the CEL. Once I reconnected the connectors, the CEL turned off, so I believe it was a loose initial connection that was the only major glitch.
Now before anybody else chimes in on this post about wasting time trying to tune an NA, I'll give you some background on my tuning experience so that you can put your assumptions to rest. I've owned a 2006 Mazdaspeed6 (CPE standback tuned), 2017 WRX, an 88 FC RX-7, 2014 NA mini cooper, 93 NA Jspec KLZE 626, a 2013 FRS and 2015 FRS. I currently own a 2017 BRZ and a 2018 2.5i Foz. I've driven and tuned both Turbo and NA my whole life. I am well aware of the bang for your buck cost/benefit calculations of tuning both types of platforms.
Driving a tuned NA is nothing like driving a tuned Turbo. Turbo lag sucks no matter how small the turbo is, and personally i find the engine and exhaust note of a CAI, HBE, tuned NA symphony to my ears. These are apples and oranges. Sometimes you want to eat an apple pie and sometimes you want to drink orange juice. For the purpose of this post i choose to eat apples, not oranges, so please don't mention oranges in your replies.
I've seen an FA20D on an FRS make 200WHP with just a HBE, intake and a tune on a stock block and fuel system. So if you start your comment with "there's no point tuning an NA" you can stop now and go read some Honda B18C tuning forums instead.
I am new to the 25B so i'm looking for some insight from the NA gurus on here. I know it's not a high rev high CR setup (like the FA20D) because they wanted more low end torque for 4x4 and towing duty but that shouldn't mean there isn't more area under the curve hiding in here. Tuned for fuel economy and emissions is not the same as tuned for power. The factory will always play it safe with timing and AFR for reliability and dependability so as not to burn cash from warranty claims but you can always tune for local elevation and octane availability. I can get 94 here pretty easily. There is also something to be said for a nice linear throttle response curve.
Anyone in here know any good resources for 25B tuning? i.e. shops, alternate platform forums, youtube vids, etc.
thanks for your time and sorry if i sounded a bit jaded but i'm really tired of people recycling the same uninformed opinions.
I too have a NORMALLY ASPIRATED NON-TURBO 2016 MT Forester.
My experience has been, running higher octane will lower the torque curve to about 1500 RPM.
The engine will not rev past 4000RPM.
EGR map has temperature compensation, the hotter it gets outside, the more EGR and the car can't get out of its own way.
There are quite a few threads asking how to get more power,etc., out of the NA engine.
There are soooo many responses out there saying tune it...I have yada yada on my turbo engine...yada yada...
PLEASE, don't recommend tuning for Turbo engines when the original questions is about NON-TURBO, NORMALLY ASPIRATED engines.
As of today, no one has "software" for NA engines.
If someone out there knows of a tuner/tuning shop, that has experience with 2014+, NON-TURBO, NORMALLY ASPIRATED engines, Please tell us.
its not a performance car, so the aftermarket doesn't see the need to R&D it. I'd check romraider and ecu flash as they used to have some availability to modify the EJ253 in the past and may have cracked the ecu coding on the FB engines. you will need to build the tune yourself though. if you wanted power you should have bought the XT to begin with.
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