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2005 Forester XT
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all. I'm new here but have a disaster and need some advice...

Cliffs: Turbo blew up on a 2005 Forester XT 2 months out of warranty. Car overheated when new due to a loose hose clamp. Is Subaru responsible or just eat it and install an aftermarket TD04?


I'm in a quandary about my wife's 2005 Forester XT. It ate the turbo on the way back from visiting grandma (about 150 miles into a 200 mile round trip). The warranty just expired two months ago and the dealership of course wants money to diagnose the problem and / or 1000$ for a new turbo. I'm 99.9% sure it is the turbo that is crunched so I'm hesitant to have Subaru tell me what I already know and charge me for it. By way of extenuating circumstances this vehicle had an issue very early on ( in 2005 shortly after purchase) with a leaking coolant hose clamp. The dealership tightened the hose clamp and assured us that no damage had occurred, however as this is my wife's daily driver I don't know how often the temperature spiked or for how long, although it was obviously not long enough to blow the head gaskets etc... It seems suspicious that the turbo is cooked after only 56k miles and it seems likely that if any component would show signs of damage from those events first it would be the turbo. I *think* the leak was at the top of the engine so I don't think the cylinders ever ran without water in the jackets.

My question is this: Should I pursue Subaru over this or just bite the bullet and install an aftermarket turbo and hope for the best?

The symptoms are:
-Currently a loud crunching sound when engine is running (similar to marbles or a fork in a garbage disposal)
-Using socket extension the noise is isolated to the intake turbine
-Crunching sound and related bad bearing sounds continue after engine shut off and crankshaft rotation stopped
-Engine will start and car will move but engine runs horribly (surging and other effects you would expect from a shot turbine)
-Loud crunching sound was preceded by the check engine light and cruise control light flashing (we thought we had not fully tightened the gas cap lid at fill up). Just before we completed the first leg of the trip (100 miles) I thought I noticed an almost imperceptible whining sound related to engine speed but not directly tied to engine / drive train RPM. I thought at first it was the rear end going out but on the return trip (about 50 miles) the very quiet whining turned into what sounded like the pop-off valve cycling, engine surging and then horrible crunching sounds.
 

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13 Forester XT 4EAT
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I thought it was 6 years 60 K on the power train, or is it just 5 years?

I might have a TD04 available soon if you want it.
 

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2005 Forester XT
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Discussion Starter #3
Drivetrain: 5 yr. / 60,000 mi. :(

Unfortunately as far as Subaru is concerned I'm done with my drive-train warranty.

Yes I would be very interested in a non-crunched TD04 or any other bolt on (I hear the STI ??? TD06 ??? is a direct bolt on etc...) or any other input regarding replacing the turbo on this thing.
 

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13 Forester XT 4EAT
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^^There are lots, but unless you're looking to spend more on modifying, like downpipe, tune (AP) etc, I would just get another TD04 and call it a day seeing as it is your wife's car. Any of the others are going to require other supporting modifications. If I were you, while the turbo is out, replace the up-pipe with a catless one. That will boost your performance a little and get rid of the cat that may go bad and take out your new turbo at some point.
 

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2005 Forester XT
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Discussion Starter #5
Could this be a cat nuke?

I remember seeing a service bulletin on the cat, are you saying if the cat went bad it can take the turbo out? Like its before the turbo? (or does it just pull chunks in, it looks like the cat is post turbo in the manual but its a new car so I haven't dug into it yet...) I think I might have seen something to that effect on one of the STI forums and if the cat took the turbo out that would (I presume) fall under the emissions warranty (8 years, 80k miles).

Edit (here is the notice I found on Kelley's):
An occasional problem on this vehicle is failure of the Catalytic Converter. Failure of the Catalytic Converter can cause the check engine light to illuminate. The Catalytic Converter is under warranty from Subaru for 8 years or 80,000 miles. The cost to replace the Catalytic Converter is estimated at $609.43 for parts and $65.00.00 for labor. All prices are estimates based on $65.00 per flat rate hour and do not include diagnostic time or any applicable sales tax.
 

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On the '04 and '05's, there is a second cat in the up-pipe. That's the pipe running from the headers to the exhaust side of the turbo. While I have never heard of it actually happening, it could break apart and the pieces would hit the turbo, ruining it. All XT's after '04 '05 have a catless up pipe as well as all STI's. You can find a used STI up pipe for cheap, under $100 and just swap them out while the turbo is out.

The cat in the Kelley's post is probably the regular one in the downpipe, you don't have to worry about that one.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the clarification and thanks for the reply's!

FYI I did see some pictures in an STI forum where the up pipe nuked, you could see all the stuffing and supporting chicken wire stuff sucked up through the up pipe.

It sounds like I just need a new turbo and to trade cars with my wife. :p She can drive the old normally aspirated '98 Outback from now on. :) If you do have or can help me find a good used TD04 I'm certainly in the market... From what I can tell talking to the salvage people around here they don't part out the turbo, I presume because if the turbo is good then the engine is good and they part out the whole package. So far I've found new TD04 after market's for ~700$, the dealer wants $1000 for the OEM and there are all sorts of "300hp" turbo's for 1000$ plus. I'm sure as is standard for most aftermarket and OEM parts they are mostly made by the same 2 or 3 manufactures and I just need a cheap reliable replacement. Any suggestions?
 

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Used TD04s are often found for $150-200 on NASIOC or craigslist, and they're typically available in good condition if you look around. The WRX guys often upgrade turbos and they have the exact same TD04 that we do.
 

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^^You can get a used TD04 in the $150 ballpark. Are you going to replace yourself, or have a shop do it?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Fantastic

Thanks! Best forum I've ever joined thus far.

yes I'll have to replace it myself and I don't have a shop... I might be able to get some lift time at a local rent space place to drop the down pipe but usually I ignore those recommendations and just lift a corner when I need to. I changed the entire exhaust on a Toyota van without a lift and they SWORE it couldn't be done :)

It looks like I can just loosen it at both ends and move the center exhaust pipe out of the way enough to clear the studs on the down side of the turbo. Any input on that idea or will it get in the way so much its worth it to get it on a lift to yank the center pipe?

Thanks!

P.S. My daughter made me put the light saber duel here -> :starwars:
 

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2006 FXT
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Depending on mileage, if you are out by two months I would contact Subaru, or your local dealer, and ask if there is anything they can do to help you out. I definitely would not expect them to pay for it, but I have heard stories of service managers working with customers. This would be especially true if your car is in stock form.

It's worth a try at least. The worst they can say is no.
 

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04 Acura TSX the slick 6 speed
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It can all be done on ramps but it's much easier with a lift. I did my full exhaust (turboback and up pipe) on ramps and the turbo on a lift. Lift makes it easier. You'll have to remove the intercooler too of course. The thing that makes it hardest on a 6 year old car is those bolts are really stuck on there. If you did the toyota you can probably do this. Good luck!
 

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04 Acura TSX the slick 6 speed
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Depending on mileage, if you are out by two months I would contact Subaru, or your local dealer, and ask if there is anything they can do to help you out. I definitely would not expect them to pay for it, but I have heard stories of service managers working with customers. This would be especially true if your car is in stock form.

It's worth a try at least. The worst they can say is no.
I agree - my Honda just went out of warranty and I had strut issues. I went to the dealer and asked them "is there anything you can do since it's barely out of warranty and this shouldn't be a problem for so new a car..." and they did the work for 1/2 price which was very nice. You don't know till you ask.
 

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other thing to consider

is the possibility of metal particles in the oil. There are procedures to minimize impact from this, I am not the expert but a little searching should find it. Something like dropping oil pan, cleaning, doing a couple short interval oil & filter changes. Others can chime in.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Depending on mileage, if you are out by two months I would contact Subaru, or your local dealer, and ask if there is anything they can do to help you out. I definitely would not expect them to pay for it, but I have heard stories of service managers working with customers. This would be especially true if your car is in stock form.

It's worth a try at least. The worst they can say is no.
Yes I called the dealer I purchased it from however they were less than helpful, very pessimistic, and wanted me to pay for a diagnosis. I am contacting Subaru USA to discuss the original over heating issue as it relates to this turbo failure because frankly if they can't "diagnose" a bad turbo for free then I can't afford to pay them for the "service" to replace it. I've tried to call the dealer in the next town over because they seem much more friendly but I keep getting transferred to VW service :( If I hadn't bought the vehicle new from Subaru AND if it hadn't had an overheating issue when brand new I wouldn't expect any dispensation, however under the circumstances it seems reasonable to at least diagnose the problem for free to me. I, of course, am biased in that view. :)

-Dead
 

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2006 FXT
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Yes I called the dealer I purchased it from however they were less than helpful, very pessimistic, and wanted me to pay for a diagnosis. I am contacting Subaru USA to discuss the original over heating issue as it relates to this turbo failure because frankly if they can't "diagnose" a bad turbo for free then I can't afford to pay them for the "service" to replace it. I've tried to call the dealer in the next town over because they seem much more friendly but I keep getting transferred to VW service :( If I hadn't bought the vehicle new from Subaru AND if it hadn't had an overheating issue when brand new I wouldn't expect any dispensation, however under the circumstances it seems reasonable to at least diagnose the problem for free to me. I, of course, am biased in that view. :)

-Dead
Try posting in the regional areas to find others near you to get some dealer recommendations.
 

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yes I'll have to replace it myself and I don't have a shop... I might be able to get some lift time at a local rent space place to drop the down pipe but usually I ignore those recommendations and just lift a corner when I need to. I changed the entire exhaust on a Toyota van without a lift and they SWORE it couldn't be done :)

It looks like I can just loosen it at both ends and move the center exhaust pipe out of the way enough to clear the studs on the down side of the turbo. Any input on that idea or will it get in the way so much its worth it to get it on a lift to yank the center pipe?

Thanks!

P.S. My daughter made me put the light saber duel here -> :starwars:
I'm in the middle of this now, have two jack-stands on the passenger side of the car. They're sitting on pieces of 2x12 and it's all out in the yard. And yes, you should be able to drop it enough to get it out of the way.

Your daughter has good taste. :D :starwars:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Ok done deal. I poked around a bit more and am now 99.9999999% sure its the turbo and bought one from one of the WRX'ers at I-Club. Thanks to pleiad7 for the heads up, I owe you one. Basically the same millage as the turbo I'm pulling off and he's a turbo head so I think it will be much better taken care of than mine. One thing I have found in my searching that I found interesting is this post: "One thing I know is that there's a small filter screen in the oil lines that feed the turbo. These can get clogged with sludge and debris on a long oil change interval, and are typically forgotten about come service time by the lower quality dealers. " So I'm sure going to look for that fabled screen :)

I should have the replacement turbo in a week or so. I'll post pics if anybody is interested in what I find when I get it all apart and such.

If anybody can think of anything I should know, lessons learned, posts I should read, etc... I would be eternally grateful. So far I have "replace the up pipe" and "check that fool screen" on my list.

Now I have to go fight a lawyer about NC civil law but I think that's a different forum. :( I just wish I could find answers about NC law like I found answers about Subaru's here.

Thanks for being so helpful to a new member!

-Dead
 
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