('14+) Does letting out the clutch apply small amount throttle automatically? - Subaru Forester Owners Forum
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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 07:45 AM Thread Starter
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Does letting out the clutch apply small amount throttle automatically?

Hi,

I was watching a video about driving MT (the guy was in a Ford Focus ST)
on Youtube where the guy would get a very small throttle response from the engine as he let the clutch slowly out. Is this pretty standard or typical on the Forester 6MT also, or does this seem to be a specific thing for the car he was driving?

I imagine this is to get the car going easier without adding too much throttle, like a stall prevention thing?

Considering a 17 or 18 Foz 6MT. Haven't driven a stick in about 10-15 years. Learned on it years ago on a 1990 Camry 5MT, have had MT's since. Was planning on taking a driving course in town on an MT to get the rust off.

Also while you're here, what's your thoughts on optimal downshifting? Blip throttle, clutch in, downshift, and slowly clutch out, or would this cause issues down the road? Is it better to just clutch in, downshift, and very slowly clutch out to give the synchros a chance to work? The WRX guys (on nasioc) seem to have lots of issues about them losing their synchros, especially 2nd gear, but wondering if this is teenage and 20 year old angst from driving a fast car. I drive like an old man.

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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1226 View Post
I imagine this is to get the car going easier without adding too much throttle, like a stall prevention thing?

Also while you're here, what's your thoughts on optimal downshifting? Blip throttle, clutch in, downshift, and slowly clutch out, or would this cause issues down the road? .
I doubt it adds throttle. Just pushing in the clutch causes rpms to go up slightly.

Your goal in downshifting is always to match engine revs with the gear you are going into. So you must blip the throttle. But brakes are cheaper than tyranny's and clutches....as my dad taught me.

I never downshift coming to a stop. Always put it in neutral well before stopping and get foot off clutch quickly. Many will disagree with that. But I probably have more miles on manual tyrannies than anyone on the board.....but we all have our ways of doing things. I won't criticize any other's ways bc I am not paying for their clutch.


Be careful what you wish for.

Last edited by adc; 06-17-2017 at 10:58 AM.
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
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So for example, to make sure I understand you, what you're saying is if you see a red light up ahead, you'll shift from whatever gear you're in into neutral and then just brake, right? Or are you saying you just keep the clutch in and put it in neutral that way?

Why do you have to blip the throttle to downshift? Wouldn't think increase the speed of the driveshaft? Isn't that why I upshifted to begin with, to avoid overspeeding the driveshaft?
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 10:14 AM
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I think he was referring to Rev match. That it more for downshifting because if you slow down too much it can cause unintended weight transfer/lock the wheels and end up crashing. It's more important for high speed performance driving and not for daily driving.

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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 10:43 AM
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Yes when you release the clutch slowly the the computer will try to maintain revs. Just like when you throw the clutch out the revs will jump up and then back down to normal idle RPM.

The Carrera GT operates in this fashion to the extreme, in that one is not supposed to touch the gas pedal until the clutch is totally engaged ... The computer does it all as far as providing throttle. This is why people burned up $20,000 clutches because they tried it start off like one would in a normal manual car.

All other cars one generally applies a bit of throttle as one is letting out the clutch. Driving a standard is like riding a bicycle, even if you haven't done it in many years you'll get the hang of it very quickly. All cars are slightly different regarding location where the clutch engages, Etc but it's really easy to get used to if you've done it before.
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1226 View Post
So for example, to make sure I understand you, what you're saying is if you see a red light up ahead, you'll shift from whatever gear you're in into neutral and then just brake, right? Or are you saying you just keep the clutch in and put it in neutral that way?
Hes put it in neutral and get foot off clutch.

Quote:
Why do you have to blip the throttle to downshift? Wouldn't think increase the speed of the driveshaft? Isn't that why I upshifted to begin with, to avoid overspeeding the driveshaft?
As soon as you downshift rpm's goes down low so you must get rpm's up. Didn't know about the subaru computer stuff. Dumbing down of america. In well over half a million moles that I drove manual..never an issue with a clutch (not bragging..just learned right from Dad) Some folks never get the hang of driving stick..and I mean never.

Be careful what you wish for.
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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What do you mean about the computer stuff? You lost me.

I've heard it could be considered illegal to put the car in neutral, since you can't apply power for emergency situations as you're not in gear?

So am I wrong or bad practice to see a red light and shift from say 4th to 3rd to 2nd and then clutch in a neutral and brake to a stop at a light and then first after a complete stop to get started again?

Was thinking I could just let clutch out slowly when downshifting to avoid jerky bucking.
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 04:08 AM
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I am not saying to keep it in neutral for hundreds of feet...just put it in neutral before the rpms are too low for high gear. Downshifting before coming to a stop is just not necessary, is hard on clutches, and synchros. And leaving the clutch out slowly instead of rev matching (with throttle) is terrible for a clutch. Your goal ion shifting up or down is to slip the clutch as little as possible.

My reference to computer is apparently the computer attempts to rev match at lift on the upshift. I really didn't know about that.

Again everyone does things the way they want..including me. :)
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 06:21 AM Thread Starter
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Sure it makes sense that pads are cheaper than a clutch. I didn't understand what you were saying before. Yes, it makes sense to put into neutral and use brake until slow enough to downshift. Apparently the suggested shifting points are in the manual.... subaru suggests to shift from 1 to 2 at 15mph. That seems fast. I used to shift to 2nd almost as soon as I got rolling, around 7-10.

I believe it says 15, 25, 35, 45, 55. Will double check. I imagine downshift is the same in opposite.
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 06:41 AM Thread Starter
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Interestingly enough the manual suggests you downshift.

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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 11:44 AM
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Completely agree with ADC.

Why are you looking to downshift? Conditions for downshifting are:

Cruising speed decreased, downshift to keep the revs up.
Going up a hill, need to be higher in powerband to prevent lugging
Taking a corner
Slowing down to point where RPM is below affective powerband, but anticipating rapid acceleration

Brake, clutch in, blip throttle, downshift, let clutch out, get on the gas to accelerate. Do not downshift to slow down, leave it in gear and use brakes as intended.

Stan

Shocks > struts.

Last edited by stan_t; 06-18-2017 at 12:24 PM.
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1226 View Post
Interestingly enough the manual suggests you downshift.
Are we reading the same text? Not seeing a suggestion to downshift.

Stan

Shocks > struts.
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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1226 View Post
Hi,

I was watching a video about driving MT (the guy was in a Ford Focus ST) link on Youtube where the guy would get a very small throttle response from the engine as he let the clutch slowly out. Is this pretty standard or typical on the Forester 6MT also, or does this seem to be a specific thing for the car he was driving?

I imagine this is to get the car going easier without adding too much throttle, like a stall prevention thing?

Considering a 17 or 18 Foz 6MT. Haven't driven a stick in about 10-15 years. Learned on it years ago on a 1990 Camry 5MT, have had MT's since. Was planning on taking a driving course in town on an MT to get the rust off.

Also while you're here, what's your thoughts on optimal downshifting? Blip throttle, clutch in, downshift, and slowly clutch out, or would this cause issues down the road? Is it better to just clutch in, downshift, and very slowly clutch out to give the synchros a chance to work? The WRX guys (on nasioc) seem to have lots of issues about them losing their synchros, especially 2nd gear, but wondering if this is teenage and 20 year old angst from driving a fast car. I drive like an old man.
No. Letting out clutch doesn't increase throttle. It looks that way on the video because the weight of the car in gear is pulling the RPM up after it's going in gear with no throttle applied.

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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 12:28 PM
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When I teach people to drive a manual, I tell them to get moving just let the clutch outas slowly as possible, not touching accelerator at all. The idle speed is enough. I've driven a car miles with no accelerator at all (snapped throttle cable), I just raise idle speed to 1,600 and lug along, shifting up to get to speed.

Stan
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Shocks > struts.
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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan_t View Post
Completely agree with ADC.

Why are you looking to downshift? Conditions for downshifting are:

Cruising speed decreased, downshift to keep the revs up.
Going up a hill, need to be higher in powerband to prevent lugging
Taking a corner
Slowing down to point where RPM is below affective powerband, but anticipating rapid acceleration

Brake, clutch in, blip throttle, downshift, let clutch out, get on the gas to accelerate. Do not downshift to slow down, leave it in gear and use brakes as intended.

Stan
Right, that's what I was kind of expecting. And then once the RPM's drop, to downshift around the 1500 RPM mark. Again, it's been a while since I drove a stick, and I did have a lot of jerkiness in the shifting, I chalked it up to being a beginner. Now, older, wiser, more mature and serious, want to understand the science behind it rather than just the "dumb luck" smooth shifts.

So in my previous example I'm noticing a red light ahead, and I'm doing 50 mph in 4th; I start applying the brake, in gear, and then when the RPM's drop to around 1500(?), downshift to 3rd, continue braking, and when the RPM's drop again to 1500 again, downshift to 2nd, and then put into neutral when at a stop (skip 1st on way down?)... Then put into first when light turns green and start again.

Am I overthinking this? Will I not lug the engine coming to a stop in 4th (zero use of accelerator) as long as I brake, clutch in at near stop, and put into 1st, or would I stall it?

The manual had something about suggested speeds for shifting up (that's the picture from the previous post) and not to downshift into 1st above 29 mph and 2nd above 54 otherwise you get a "money shift"...
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