The CVT: Learn it and Love it - Page 3 - Subaru Forester Owners Forum
User Tag List

 47Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 12:01 PM
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Tallahassee, Fl
Posts: 829
Car Year: 2015
Car Model: Forester XT Touring
Transmission: cvt
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by neallv View Post
You have some evidence, yes. A solid guess. But you haven't eliminated alternative explanations. For example, the fast idle warmup sequence could cause drivability problems. It could be the CVT -- say a cold TC causing it, but you speak with certainty with what is actually speculation.
Sure enough, and I will let the dealer sort it out under warranty. It isn't critical to me whether it is a cold TC (whatever that is) or some other part, just that it functions properly.

Since others have already reported numerous times that the dealers they took their "buckers" to diagnosed it as a CVT issue, there might be a clue there for you. Or speculation, perhaps. It matters very little unless one enjoys arguing about such things, me , I just want it to work as designed.

EJ

EddieJoe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
Forum Member
Contributing Member
 
Fate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Charleston WV
Posts: 906
Car Year: 2017
Car Model: SBM FXT-T ES
Transmission: TR690GBYCA
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieJoe View Post
Uh huh. Well, me too, I just could push mine to about half throttle on a hill when the car was cold and/or exceed the 25 mph speed limit in my neighborhood, or put it into low range to increase the rpms with greater throttle pedal until the bucking was not evident. Point is, cold car, light throttle, in drive, it bucks. That's a defect, not a learning opportunity for your foot, assuming that an owner should expect to be able to operate the vehicle smoothly at low speed. If you "adapted" to the bucking by doing something else besides giving it more gas or waiting until it fully warmed up I would like to know what it was. Please tell us your secret, then all of the other fools like me (except for you) similarly limited in their basic driving ability and owning a CVT 2.5 would bless you for the knowledge you gained on your test drive.

Overall, this is rather a silly discussion. Why is this even an argument?
It goes without saying that no one is unsympathetic to a fellow Forester owner's discontent. However, unless I misread your total posts you have yet to pursue your grievance with your dealer. That is a better venue to seek answers ... than continue to vent and pollute other threads. Maybe start your own thread so that you could find more birds of a feather? Here, you are obviously in a significant minority, an owner with a problem that should be presented to a dealer's expertise instead of looking for a consensus where one does not exist. The Subaru CVT, in general, is a superb transmission, and the overwhelming opinion of this forum's ownership is pleased to not only drive one, but happy to know that it is recognized nationally as well, as winner of the SUV of The Year award.

The Subaru CVT, for me and many others, has ushered in a new era, one of extremely fluent driving characteristics. On top of that driving pleasure is the most significant increase in gas mileage I've personally ever experienced. All from a relative huge vehicle with enormous versatility. Do I ever experience a less than silken accelerative event, especially when cold? Yes, I do. But I understand a little where that is coming from, and after driving vehicles for more than, considerably more than, fifty years, in a large array of vehicles, these Foresters provide the best driving experience, with the most perfectly smooth flow of engine power I've ever known.

It is in view of that fact that I suggest you wait no longer to have your Forester's operation attended to by qualified Subaru personnel. You should be, at the least, as happy with your vehicle as I, and most others, are.

As I have read your input, as well as others, there is one question no one has answered unasked, nor has anyone asked it as far as I can tell: what gasoline do you use?

The answer to this, and the why of the question, will be the subject of my next post.

Fate is online now  
post #33 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 12:14 PM
Admin
 
GeoJosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 12,748
Car Year: 2014
Car Model: Forester XT Touring
Transmission: CVT
Garage
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieJoe View Post
Sure enough, and I will let the dealer sort it out under warranty. It isn't critical to me whether it is a cold TC (whatever that is) or some other part, just that it functions properly.
TC = Torque Converter.

I think Dove_jj was referring to the sensitivity of the throttle on the 2.5i. When he said "surging" on initial acceleration, I took that to mean gas pedal is very touchy... lots of oomph when you first touch the gas.

When I test drove the 2.5 I had the same experience.

No complaints about the CVT though... it is a smoother operation than my parents 2012 Fusion Hybrid which "bucks" some when the power is switching between gas and electric.

Lifted 2014 XT Touring Ice Silver


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

GeoJosh is offline  
 
post #34 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 01:25 PM
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Tallahassee, Fl
Posts: 829
Car Year: 2015
Car Model: Forester XT Touring
Transmission: cvt
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate View Post
It goes without saying that no one is unsympathetic to a fellow Forester owner's discontent. However, unless I misread your total posts you have yet to pursue your grievance with your dealer. That is a better venue to seek answers ... than continue to vent and pollute other threads. Maybe start your own thread so that you could find more birds of a feather? Here, you are obviously in a significant minority, an owner with a problem that should be presented to a dealer's expertise instead of looking for a consensus where one does not exist. The Subaru CVT, in general, is a superb transmission, and the overwhelming opinion of this forum's ownership is pleased to not only drive one, but happy to know that it is recognized nationally as well, as winner of the SUV of The Year award.

The Subaru CVT, for me and many others, has ushered in a new era, one of extremely fluent driving characteristics. On top of that driving pleasure is the most significant increase in gas mileage I've personally ever experienced. All from a relative huge vehicle with enormous versatility. Do I ever experience a less than silken accelerative event, especially when cold? Yes, I do. But I understand a little where that is coming from, and after driving vehicles for more than, considerably more than, fifty years, in a large array of vehicles, these Foresters provide the best driving experience, with the most perfectly smooth flow of engine power I've ever known.

It is in view of that fact that I suggest you wait no longer to have your Forester's operation attended to by qualified Subaru personnel. You should be, at the least, as happy with your vehicle as I, and most others, are.

As I have read your input, as well as others, there is one question no one has answered unasked, nor has anyone asked it as far as I can tell: what gasoline do you use?

The answer to this, and the why of the question, will be the subject of my next post.
And you get the runner up award for pompous poster. Polluting the post was not the point, but mentioning that the cvt has some adjusting to do before it becomes the second coming is. Gee, since I am also an old guy that has owned many, many vehicles should I be all puffed up? Hope not ever to be like that. Good grief, do you read your posts prior to putting them out there?

To answer your question, regular grade shell. And I can't wait for your monumental technical paper on gasoline. No doubt many others do too.




Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
EddieJoe is offline  
post #35 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 02:44 PM
Forum Member
 
MvNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 210
Car Year: 03
Car Model: Forester XS
Transmission: MT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I had a 2014 for 2 months. CVT. It was very good, but nothing to rave about. It's better than I expected tough and very smooth/efficient. I still prefer MT's.

For off-roading the CVT has the advantage. For rain/snow and daily highway driving I will take a MT.

Is the AWD split still 60/40 for the CVT?

Last edited by MvNJ; 11-03-2013 at 02:54 PM.
MvNJ is offline  
post #36 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-04-2013, 03:57 AM Thread Starter
Forum Member
Contributing Member
 
Fate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Charleston WV
Posts: 906
Car Year: 2017
Car Model: SBM FXT-T ES
Transmission: TR690GBYCA
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The Forester's CVT: Continuous, but not always perfect, Power Delivery

Author Doug Demuro of "The Truth About Cars" wrote, in this article: In Defense Of: The CVT Automatic (Yes, I

"Car enthusiasts, as a whole, hate the CVT..." which accounts for some of the opinions we find here. But then he goes on to use an Impreza as a prop that salves that hate.

The article is one of many available if Google is asked: "Is the CVT the transmission of the future?" (https://www.google.com/search?q=si+t...ddress&ie=&oe=) There doesn't seem to be any question that it is, in one form or another THE transmission of the future. Further, it is also clear that the Manual Transmission will continue to decline as an option in its purest form, to be transformed into one form of automated gearbox or another.

The fact is, CVTs are better than either a manual or automatic transmission at delivering the world's current priorities. They accomplish this because they have gone beyond the duality of the former answers, and have become a synergistic partner with the engine. They not only interpret engine output, process it and output the results to the rest of the drivetrain, they now perform some of the functions that were heretofore only controlled by the engine's ECU. Where the engine ECU once had the sole duty of adjusting to varying atmospheric conditions, loads, and fuel, the CANBus-coupled microprocessors of the transmission, engine, and body now work together to provide a far higher degree of output acuity than ever before. Included in the resulting advantages are power delivery, gas mileage, low emissions, and unequalled traction and vehicular control, all while ensuring the safe running of the equipment.

In other words, the vehicle no longer suffers an output from a committee. Its various microprocessors, that previously communicated together but controlled separate entities, have become melded together with a transmission that has the ability to seamlessly adjust its behavior in concert with the engine. Together the engine and CVT adjust to driver input, gasoline quality, atomospheric influences, load demands, and, working with the differentials and braking system, traction demands. All this is accomplished far faster and far better than any driver using themself as an interface with the separate systems, or any other transmission.

Sometimes all does not go smoothly. When the vehicle's systems find they must suddenly contend with large adjustments, the result can be perceptible changes in vehicle behavior... as opposed to the normal fluid progress of the CVT. Some conditions include gasoline quality or inadequate octane for throttle input, or where requested loads exceed the safe timing for the gearing present at that throttle input. Then, not only will the ECU adjust timing and boost, the TCU will also adjust the CVT's gearing. Other ECU/TCU handshaking mixes RPM with ratio selection to optimize output. Sometimes, when the discrepancies are large enough, that will result in less than a seamless flow of power and the operator will sense the overall changes to the mechanism. Most of the time, however, the system's adjustments are invisible and provide a seamless flow of energy to the wheels.

But even when the system isn't dealing with an operator's input or the engine's issues, and is working precisely as designed, the operator will sense a variety of mechanical control inputs that are anything but seamless... except in overall intention, or result. Here I refer specifically to X-Mode and its collection of operational oddities. Other systems that cause perceptible mechanical behavior are the TCU and VDC systems, which will cause the operator to sense changes in the controls and in the vehicles physical behivior. And, there is the braking system and the definite and harsh results of the ABS in operation.

A vehicle of old, without ABS, would not cause the unitiated driver to cringe from the noise and behavior that system brings. The simple hydraulic brake system's pedal will quietly spin the car out of control and still be fully depressed when the sliding tires encounter the unavoidable object. A carbureted engine will not shut down power nor throw a CEL and go into limp-mode because of octane limitations. No RPM limiter will interfere, to cut the engine off to save the rods and bearings. And a manual transmission will allow the operator to load the engine any way they want and provide no feedback whatsoever... when the engine burns holes in their pistons and eats their valves. The incautious driver of yesteryear's car, on a bad road and in a bad curve, will not have to experience the mechanical interference from the TCU or VDC, but wil fail to correct the slide and end up in the trees. The mechanically dumb four wheel drive system will labor smoothly, but never negotiate the snow and mud the Subaru in X-Mode can. Regardless of skill, no effort from yesterday's machines can equal the fuel mileage of the sometimes quirky CVT-equipped cars of today.

Subaru's 2014 Forester is not a perfect vehicle, and there are some tradeoffs to its very desirable array of electromechanical systems. But it is a far better vehicle than those without its modern systems, including its controversial CVT... imperfections, quirks, and all. But, if these most-often subtle awarenesses amount to something more, then as said by lwerring,

Quote:
I've never experienced the bucking and jiving that others have so I feel that if you have it, something is wrong, whether mechanical or logical. It can't be normal...
Others have posed rational explanations for occasional and transitional characteristics of the CVT, such as TC behavior, throttle mapping, temperature, and terrain, among others, and I'll add octane to this mix. These owners' observations embrace the general reality experienced by the vast majority, with tolerance for an overall great performing machine.

The bottom line for many, including me, was said well by ScoobyLTD... (owners of the 6MT, cover your ears)

Quote:
I love. My CVT in my ...
Best gearbox Subaru has made
Subaru wants everyone to love their vehicles and has a warranty system to ensure it.
Fate is online now  
post #37 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-04-2013, 05:59 AM
Forum Member
 
MvNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 210
Car Year: 03
Car Model: Forester XS
Transmission: MT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/au...-and-your-car/

Quote:
Manual Transmission: Also known as a “standard” transmission or “stick shift” as noted above. This type requires you to push down on a clutch pedal and then change gears by hand with a shifter (the “stick shift”) in the center of the car. Most modern cars with a manual transmission have five speeds but some now have six, not counting reverse. In the early days of automobiles, all cars had manual transmissions.

Overall, the design is fairly simple, efficient and it gives drivers very direct control over the car, something driving enthusiasts like. On the down side, it takes a hand off the steering wheel to operate and using one in stop-and-go traffic can be a mini-workout. It also takes skill and practice to proficiently master a manual transmission.

CVT:
Quote:
The advantage is the simplicity of the system and it can also be quite efficient if you don’t have a lead foot. If you do like to drive fast or want a high-performance car, this is an option you might want to pass on as it’s not really designed for that kind of driving.

I expect CVT's to continue to improve and replace AT's. Manuals will continue to decline as well, unfortunately.
MvNJ is offline  
post #38 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-04-2013, 06:04 AM
Forum Member
 
The Sage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Long Beach CA
Posts: 369
Car Year: 2014
Car Model: Forester 2.0XT
Transmission: CVT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
This discussion is excellent and provides a lot of useful information for discussions I have with people who think I'm crazy for purchasing a Subaru with a CVT.

My first experience with the CVT was an Outback rental car I had a couple of months ago. I was very impressed with the performance and smooth acceleration. The first day I drove it, I did not know I was driving a CVT, this I found out later in the day when I read the spec's on the rental car I was driving.

The rental car experience lead be to purchasing the FXT and I've had an even better driving experience in it with the CVT.

I have not experienced any of the concerns some have posted with jerking and shaking with the CVT on my FXT. I purchased the vehicle in mid-October and it was manufactured in September. I wonder if later production models had some tweaks made in the tuning due to the reports of CVT issues in early production?
The Sage is offline  
post #39 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-04-2013, 06:14 AM
Forum Member
 
MvNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 210
Car Year: 03
Car Model: Forester XS
Transmission: MT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I welcome the transition from standard AT to CVT's. Good discussion. :)
MvNJ is offline  
post #40 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-04-2013, 06:37 AM
Forum Member
 
The Sage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Long Beach CA
Posts: 369
Car Year: 2014
Car Model: Forester 2.0XT
Transmission: CVT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I'm sure many of the rival auto manufactures have FXT's in their test facilities that they are reverse engineering to make improvements to their cars.


Last edited by The Sage; 11-04-2013 at 06:45 AM.
The Sage is offline  
post #41 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-04-2013, 06:43 AM
Forum Member
 
forester06x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Atlanta/Georgia Tech
Posts: 3,113
Car Year: 2006
Car Model: X Supercharged
Transmission: 4.11 5MT Swap
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
My opinion is that CVT is superior to a regular automatic, but not superior to a manual. Manual will truly let you do anything that you want to, whether you want to drive in high gear and destroy your rod bearings or not. With that control comes responsibility. I drove a Chevy Volt CVT awhile back and it was smooth, but very odd to drive. It would take a bit to get used to.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
forester06x is offline  
post #42 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-04-2013, 07:30 AM
Forum Member
 
MvNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 210
Car Year: 03
Car Model: Forester XS
Transmission: MT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by forester06x View Post
My opinion is that CVT is superior to a regular automatic, but not superior to a manual. Manual will truly let you do anything that you want to, whether you want to drive in high gear and destroy your rod bearings or not. With that control comes responsibility. I drove a Chevy Volt CVT awhile back and it was smooth, but very odd to drive. It would take a bit to get used to.
+1
MvNJ is offline  
post #43 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-04-2013, 08:00 AM
Forum Member
Contributing Member
 
neall_v's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: N. Vancouver, BC
Posts: 2,770
Car Year: 2014
Car Model: 2.0 XT
Transmission: yes
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sage View Post
I have not experienced any of the concerns some have posted with jerking and shaking with the CVT on my FXT.
I'm pretty sure that the people with problems have the 2.5 CVT, which is a different unit from the HT-CVT in the XT.
neall_v is offline  
post #44 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-04-2013, 01:03 PM
Forum Member
 
DockingPilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 590
Car Year: 2017
Car Model: Forester Touring
Transmission: CVT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I just rented a new Ford Focus I think it is, from Hertz. It has a cvt tranny.
If you want to see just how good your Subaru cvt tranny is, drive this pos.
I mean it's like night and day. Ford should be ashamed to put their name on this crap. Severe lag, shutter that makes you think the car is firing on only 1 cylinder, extreme rpm changes that make you say to yourself "***" when your driving it.
Ford is nowhere near the league subaru is in with the cvt if this car is any indicator.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
DockingPilot is online now  
post #45 of 319 (permalink) Old 11-04-2013, 05:05 PM
Forum Member
 
The Sage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Long Beach CA
Posts: 369
Car Year: 2014
Car Model: Forester 2.0XT
Transmission: CVT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot View Post
I just rented a new Ford Focus I think it is, from Hertz. It has a cvt tranny.
If you want to see just how good your Subaru cvt tranny is, drive this pos.
I mean it's like night and day. Ford should be ashamed to put their name on this crap. Severe lag, shutter that makes you think the car is firing on only 1 cylinder, extreme rpm changes that make you say to yourself "***" when your driving it.
Ford is nowhere near the league subaru is in with the cvt if this car is any indicator.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
And this is why CVT gets a bad rep. The Subaru engineers have really perfected the technology, as they have done with the boxer engine and AWD.
The Sage is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Subaru Forester Owners Forum > Technical Forums and Vehicle Assistance > Transmission and Driveline

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 

Title goes here

close
video goes here
description goes here. Read Full Story
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
 


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1