Subaru Forester Owners Forum

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-   Problems, Maintenance, and Warranty (http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f88/)
-   -   Secondary air valves - P0410 (http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f88/secondary-air-valves-p0410-57248/)

bmuri34 04-10-2013 05:37 AM

I BELIEVE so.
Haven't done it yet. I finally figured out last night how to delete the related codes and flash the new map to the ECU. Haven't done it yet. Been pressed for time. But I'll do it later today and let you know if the CEL lights come on tomorrow morning upon cold start up.
Fingers crossed....

TwoupTwodown 04-10-2013 10:19 AM

Let me know how it works out. My AP gets here tomorrow. I'm excited to have a normal running car again.

agkq62 04-10-2013 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoupTwodown (Post 1570409)
How many fuses total?

Oh and to add, When I removed the valve, water came out and I saw some decent rust on the valve shaft inside. So this was indeed the issue.

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulle...olution-94534/

See page3

TwoupTwodown 04-10-2013 04:10 PM

In the secondary air box I pulled:

SBF-9
Air pump relay
10A fuse


http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulle...elays-safb.jpg

bmuri34 04-11-2013 06:19 AM

OK! I figured out how to program out the affecting codes, flashed it to the ECU, then waited until this morning for a cold start-up to see if the CEL would come on. IT DIDN"T! IT WORKED!!
I plan on this weekend to fully tackle mechanics of it and fully delete the entire system with the block off plates, pull the fuses, and just be done with it. Figuring out how to use the AP to delete the codes was a big win.
Enjoy that AP! Let me know when you're ready to tackle the code deleting, and I'll walk you through it.

TwoupTwodown 04-11-2013 08:36 AM

Good to hear. Let me know if you pull the same fuses/relays that I did and let me know if anything adverse happens since you've already got the tune.

bmuri34 04-11-2013 02:36 PM

Ok. Pulled the two fuses when I got home and started her up. Of course, CEL. Checked the code. It was P0418 "Secondary Air Injection System Relay 'A' Circuit".
I'm planning on removing this one from the map as well. Then I should be all set. Now it's just a matter of physically removing the hardware!

TwoupTwodown 04-12-2013 03:15 AM

Ok so I fixed a mistake I made. When I pulled the driver side valve off I pulled off the barometric air sensor. Make sure this is the one that stays in the car. It's the valve with the 6 pin plug. Tuned the car last night and it runs great Stage 1. So glad I was able to fix this easily.

bmuri34 04-12-2013 05:33 AM

Right on! Thanks for the heads up on the barometric pressure sensor. I'll be leaving that in.
Last night, after removing the fuses and removing the associated codes and flashing it back to the ecu, I started it up cold this morning......no CEL!!! I'm so happy this is mostly done and over with.
Anyone out there done the complete hardware delete? I have the block off plates, just need to remove everything. Any tips/tricks?
Thanks, guys.

bmuri34 04-14-2013 05:52 PM

3 Attachment(s)
First off, I read this post, but in my mind I didn't think it would really be all that bad. Man was I wrong. This weekend totally kicked my butt. I spent 10+ hours over Saturday and Sunday getting this done. Like the guy in this post says, I don't recommend anyone do this procedure unless they're changing a turbo or something. If you can, just use an AP to delete the codes and pull the fuses. This was an absolute nightmare.

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulle...3/#post1344870

So here's what happened:
Since I really didn't think it would take me too long, I started on Saturday around 1:30. I jumped right in by removing the downpipe first. I knew the driver side block-off plate would be a breeze to install. And I figured all the existing plumbing and motor and valves wouldn't really be too bad.
Got the downpipe off (remember, it's a COBB DP that I installed last weekend, so it was a cinch. No heat shields or cover plates. Came right off). Now that I'm under the car, I'm looking up on the passenger side where the existing secondary air plumbing is and where the plate will go. Its behind the Up-pipe! I can't even see it. I can see the driver side one clear as day though.
So I put this part on hold and started tearing out the Secondary Air stuff from the engine compartment. Started by removing the intercooler. Then pulled the aux fuse box. Then removed the pump. This was the easiest part by far. Then removed the 3-way black rubber tubing going from the pump to the valves. Easy. No I REALLY had easy access to the driver side. I just wanted to save it for later.
Now I figured it was really time to tackle that passenger side. After about 2 hours, believe it or not, I was able to get both bolts out on the passenger side engine block and freed the pipe up. I could move it a little left and right. I still don't know how I was able to do this. I chalk it up to my aircraft maintenance experience in the Air Force. I was totally stoked I got those out without removing the up-pipe or the turbo. This exuberance didn't last long, however.
Upon freeing the piping on the passenger side from the engine block, I had to somehow get it out. So I started tackling the valve that it's connected to on the driver side underneath the intercooler. I was finally able to get the valve free, but it would NOT COME OUT. With the crossover piping still attached, it wouldn't break free. So then I set to freeing the piping from the valve. Another complete nightmare. It took well over an hour to get those two bolts out. The top one was easy. The bottom one, you can't see or feel. It took FOREVER. Finally I got them out. The piping was free from the Valve. The valve came right out. The piping? No. It wouldn't budge past about 2 inches in either direction.
At this point it's dark (I'm outside), and I'm 6+ hours in to the job. Tackle the rest Sunday.
Sunday, today, I got up, rode my bike to O'Reilly's and picked up some WD-40, anti-sieze, and a special socket to remover O2 sensors.
I decided to remove the upipe and turbo in order to get the crossover piping out, in order to get the block off plate ON. In order to remove the uppipe, I had to remove the headers. BOTH sides. Removed air box. removed the uppipe. Started removing the turbo (never done this before. Coolant started leaking, oil started leaking, so I decided to just say screw it. I left the turbo as is.
With the uppipe removed, I could see port on the engine block from under neath the car. The piping was still there, but I could move it out of the way just enough to get the block off plate on. So I did. Then I did the driver side.
Then I had to tackle the job of re installing the headers, up pipe, downpipe, intercooler, intake box, etc. It took about 4 hours total today.
All in all, I got the pump removed, both block off plates on, 1 valve removed, and a bunch of piping. That crossover piping is staying loose, but where it is for now. Don't know if or when it will ever come out. Perhaps turbo upgrade?
Once I got everything back together and buttoned up, I went inside and deleted the following codes in AccessTUNER race: 0410 11, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 1410, 1418, 2431, 32, 33, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44. Then put the program on the AP, and flashed it to the ECU.
Now time for start up and drive. Everything went fine. Started driving. Then.....my engine temperature sky rocketed!!!! WHAT?! WHYYYY?!?!? This really freaked me out. I would pull over, shut it down, let the cooling fans cool it down, then drive back home, and it would fluctuate up and down, up and down. I checked the coolant level in the radiator and overflow. Radiator was topped off, but over flow was empty. For now, I just filled it with about a liter of bottle water I had. After driving another 10 miles or so, the temp normalized. The only thing I can think of is when I was removing the turbo, I lost more antifreeze than I thought. The system had to recycle through new coolant and it was slightly over heating in the process.

I'm not going to lie, there was a point yesterday with that turbo coming off that I was actually scared. Or at least really nervous. I was in way over my head. Just to get this secondary air system out.
Now that it's done, I am physically, emotionally, and intellectually drained. I don't ever want to do that again. EVER. :puke:

By the way, in the 3rd pic, note the mileage when I was having my temperature fluctuations.

bmuri34 04-16-2013 06:08 AM

Today marks day 2 of a cold morning start with no CELs. No issues. The car runs like a dream. Also, after installing the Cobb downpipe and flashing Stage 2, she pulls hard and fast.
I'm a happy Subie owner once again.

JVET 06-06-2013 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lionel (Post 634539)
I've a problem with an 06 Forester XT. The dealer has now replaced both secondary air valves - one under warrantee. The lights are on again, and now the dealer says that it's the secondary air pump(?) - code P0410. That's not under warrantee and is a $700+ repair! Is this a common problem or am I getting hosed? - they tell me that the part is not in the USA? Anybody know the part number and where to buy a used one??

The only slightly good news with this whole secondary air pump problem is that the air pump is fixable, I took the air pump apart with the help of an old fashioned mechanic and replaced the moisture damaged bearings . I still have the P24444 and P2432 fault codes to unravel.
I suspect that the story about moist environments is a dealer perpetuated myth. I live in an arid region and the car has only 53 000 km an the odometer.

yuriykh 06-21-2013 07:23 AM

P2441
 
Hi, everybody I am back to forum as well as my Secondary Air Injection System failed again. It is second time this problem arises on my car. Now with CEL P2441 - Secondary Air Injection System Switching Valve Stuck Closed.:mob: My mileage now 80,000+, but first time it happened at 53,000 in 2009 and it was repaired by Subaru dealership for $1,205 (Both valves 14864AA030 and 14864AA020 has been replaced). And now 3 years latter again…
I sent email to SOA and strongly suggest everybody with Secondary Air Injection System failure do it as well:
https://www.subaru.com/shopping-tools/contact-us.html
But, since I do not expect a lot help from them I think now about blockoff plates.
I will keep you updated on resolution.

Guyute 06-23-2013 09:56 PM

I just joined the CEL/Blinking Cruise light club. 2006 L.L. Bean. Do you guys think the blockoff plates and deleting codes is the way to go?

4ister 06-23-2013 11:32 PM

06 FXT 59,000 miles.
OK, I have had the problem at about 49,000 miles. With the help of one of the top Subaru mech's in my area, (and my engineering background) figured out the reasons for this problem. Any time you compress air, water is separated from the air. That is why there is water separators and dryers used in air compressors and inline for air driven tools. The fact the compressor impeller is horizontal means the water is going to pool at the bottom of the pump shaft. The impeller bearings and shaft are not stainless, so they are going to rust and eventually seize. (This pump is designed to run for 90 seconds at cold start.) The valve that prevents blowback (when the air pump is not running) has the same problem, corrosion and seizing from the water in the air being pushed at it. (BTW there was a significant amount of water drained from this system when it was R&R from my FXT.) Before the new system was installed, I applied some synthetic spray chain lube on the impeller shaft. (This is really not a solution to the problem, but something to hopefully delay the problem.) FYI, if you have any of the three parts fail and you get any CEL codes for this system, plan on replacing all of these parts. As some of the prior posts have stated, the issue soon progresses up or down stream in short order. :icon_sad: Note, on the later model Subies, the pump is now mounted so the shaft is horizontal not vertical. Therefore any water that might separate is swept down steam without pooling. Only time will tell if this solves the problem. I don't know if Subaru has changed the material in the impeller shaft, bearings or valve to materials that don't corrode, but I did read on a NASIOC post that this was the case for the impeller bearing after 2009. Subaru has to be well aware of this problem, especially since they changed the system design in later models and if they redesigned the bearing in the original part. As for the blocking plates and flashing the computer, no parts to fail terminates the problem, but you will be polluting more for the first 90 seconds during cold starts.


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