Oil Consumption or a leak? Help Please!

soobyDO! · Sep 17, 2011

muchomas said:
PM Sent

Before installing the new switch ( mine was part# 25240aa060), apply a bit of Liquid gasket on the threads and tighten with a tourque wrench to 18ft-lbs. Easy as can be.

:Banane35:

...18 ft lbs with a GOOD torque wrench. Unfortunately I have a Great Neck P.O.S and I just cracked the head when I was only at "10 ft lbs"!!!!

With the oil pressure switch re-installed...

I feel like I am about to puke right now I am so pissed. :icon_mad:

How bad is this? I revved the engine to 2k-3k rpm for about a minute and it had already leaked from the the crack and dripped onto the under cover.

How big is the larger engine component that this is part of? I am afraid I will have to replace the entire cylinder head...

Maybe I can just get creative with some JB weld?

Sad day :shake:

soobyDO! · Sep 17, 2011

JB Weld might be my best (cheapest) option for now. Is says its "petroleum resistant" and can withstand temps of 500 degrees. How hot does a cylinder head get? I found some used ones for $300...

flstffxe · Sep 17, 2011

That mounting boss for the oil pressure switch is part of the cylinder head.

Options:

1. Replace the cylinder head.

2. Do a poor mans fix. A metals grade epoxy(google it for many options), pick one with oil, fuel and heat resistant properties. Personal note I wouldn't do it on my own but done right it WILL work.

3. Find some one to weld it and rethread or retap it as needed. A good welder(tig would be my preferred) can grind a V notch along the crack, thread a steel plug into the hole, weld it and remove the steel plug. That should leave you with a good hole to thread a sensor into. Add some liquid pipe dope to the threads before installing.

Doing #3 on the vehicle would be my choice but it will require you to do some disassembly to get the room for the welder to do their work. One could also pull the head and do the reapair.

Your only inexpensive option is to epoxy it. A new head is over $400, a used head should be ~$200 and labor will be that of about head gaskets. Shop rate for just a weld repair should be less then $100(I would expect <$50 in my area), disassembly to get to clearance to do the weld depends on who is doing it and how much room the welder wants.

soobyDO! · Sep 17, 2011

I think I am going to try the epoxy weld first. Then, when it comes time to replace my head gaskets and timing belt I will either replace the cylinder head or get it TIG welded. I would think the engine oil needs to be completely drained before you can put a welder anywhere near it, and it would probably be better to pull the engine and do it then.

Does anyone know how hot that area gets?

flstffxe · Sep 17, 2011

The thing to keep in mind with the epoxy is that it is not easily cleaned out from the crack which can make it a pain to try and weld later. The oil can be cleaned out with a evaporating chemical degreaser, the epoxy is a solid that would need to be dug out with a pick.

No need to drain the oil before welding. I would rate the explosion/fire risk from welding in that area at less then a 1 on a 1-10 danger scale.

soobyDO! · Sep 18, 2011

flstffxe said:
The thing to keep in mind with the epoxy is that it is not easily cleaned out from the crack which can make it a pain to try and weld later. The oil can be cleaned out with a evaporating chemical degreaser, the epoxy is a solid that would need to be dug out with a pick.

No need to drain the oil before welding. I would rate the explosion/fire risk from welding in that area at less then a 1 on a 1-10 danger scale.

Good point. I am going take it to a renowned TIG welder on Monday and see what he can do. Is it bad if some non-chlorinated brake cleaner drips down into the head cylinder? I just need to know if I should plug the hole before I start prepping it for the welding.

flstffxe · Sep 18, 2011

No worries about it in the oil. However Brake Cleaner = Phosgene Article . Most welders are aware of this or they should be.

trailangel · Sep 18, 2011

Maybe that was already cracked.. and was why it was leaking there.

soobyDO! · Sep 18, 2011

trailangel said:
Maybe that was already cracked.. and was why it was leaking there.

Very possible....or maybe it was weakened for some reason. When I removed the original oil pressure switch it had a lot of gunk on one particular side of the threads. Maybe the crack originated on the threaded side of the boss? I wonder what my chances are in getting great neck to foot the bill for a cylinder head replacement? That sh**ty torque wrench was only showing 10 ft lbs when I heard and felt the crack...

trailangel · Sep 18, 2011

I would file along the outside of the crack so you can lay in a good bead of JBweld (let cure overnight)or have someone weld the outside.
Then would use Permatex Aviation gasket sealer and just screw it back in (lightly)and let set up.

http://www.permatex.com/products/au...sketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_Aviation_Form-A-Gasket_No_3_Sealant_a.htm

flstffxe · Sep 18, 2011

trailangel said:
Maybe that was already cracked.. and was why it was leaking there.

The crack is not present in the first pics of the leak.

soobyDO! said:
I changed my oil last week and used regular old Mobil 1 5w30 this time. I also cleaned the suspect area really well so that I could keep a better eye on it. After the weekend and about 100 miles, this is what it looked like.....again....

^You can actually SEE the oil pooling up in an indentation behind the oil pressure sensor!...

Click/beam type torque wrenches are notorious for being inaccurate at the bottom end of their range. Like in this case, when torquing some thing that has a final torque of 18ft-lbs. The vast majority of torque wrenches that measure in FT-lbs will start off at 10ft-lbs.

What is the scale on the torque wrench you were using?

soobyDO! · Sep 18, 2011

Yeah, you're right about the crack not being there before...I'm just trying to make myself feel better about it. I was using a Great Neck needle/gauge style wrench. I think it goes from 0 to 120. I will post a picture of the exact configuration i was using in a bit. I had an extension and some converters on it.

soobyDO! · Sep 18, 2011

soobyDO! said:
Yeah, you're right about the crack not being there before...I'm just trying to make myself feel better about it. I was using a Great Neck needle/gauge style wrench. I think it goes from 0 to 120. I will post a picture of the exact configuration i was using in a bit. I had an extension and some converters on it.

The torque wrench is 1/2 inch drive. I had to covert to 3/8 to use the extension, then back to 1/2 inch for the 24mm socket. This shouldn't affect the torque reading i was very careful ablout keeping everything lined up.

flstffxe · Sep 18, 2011

Nothing wrong with the set up other then the choice of wrench, 0-150ftlbs.

I would of used a torque wrench with a much smaller scale, likely a 0-250 inch pound.

18ft-lbs = 216in-lbs

None of that means that it was the wrench or wrench choice is/was at fault. The end result is there is a crack that needs to be fixed.

soobyDO! · Sep 18, 2011

Do you think the boss has separated on either side of the crack enough to where it needs to be "pinched" together in the direction of the arrows while the crack is welded?

With the sensor installed:

My concern is that the pressure could strip the threads and push the new sensor out of the boss if it isn't "factory tight"... I know we are talking about less than a mm here, but I am trying to think of everything! I will certainly use the best sealant/gasket material I can find, and plenty of it when I install the new sensor.

flstffxe · Sep 18, 2011

I wouldn't mess with it other then finding out what the welder needs done for prep work.

All I have done in the past on similar repairs to this is lightly thread in a steel plug/thread chaser(not a cutting tap) into the hole and cut a V notch along the crack. The notch allows for better penetration of the weld. The steel plug helps to prevent the threads from deforming from the weld and in many cases allows the weld material to fill in the gap of threads in the crack by flowing up to the plug and cooling. It is like covering the threads of a bolt with epoxy, letting it harden and then unthreading the bolt out of the epoxy.

Some welders/machinists will prefer to fill in the hole completely with weld, redrill and tap it.

Much of it depends on the person doing the welding and what they are comfortable with for an approach at the repair. After all it is there work on the line.

soobyDO! · Sep 19, 2011

I just had the welder over to look at it, and he is very concerned about having enough space to work with the engine still in the car. :icon_frown:

I am going to start removing EVERYTHING I can around that area today and have it towed to his shop tomorrow morning with my eyes, fingers, toes, hairs, etc crossed! Here are the components I am going to remove for now:

Battery
Oil filler tube
Dipstick tube (possible?)
Coolant overflow tank
AC Compressor (any warnings?)
AVLS Camshaft solenoid sensor thingy (really worried about this one!)

Any more advice is greatly appreciated!

flstffxe · Sep 19, 2011

Battery easy
Oil filler tubeeasy
Dipstick tube (possible?)held in by 1 or 2 bolts, slips into the pan with a couple of o-rings. plug the spout on the pan or pull the tube at the welders shop.
Coolant overflow tank easy
AC Compressor (any warnings?) Don't disconnect the lines, you will be able to swing it out of the way.
AVLS Camshaft solenoid sensor thingy (really worried about this one!) not that bad really.

If it makes you feel any better both of our '08s weeping from the same spot.

soobyDO! · Sep 19, 2011

flstffxe said:
Battery Done
Oil filler tubeDone
Dipstick tube (possible?)held in by 1 or 2 bolts, slips into the pan with a couple of o-rings. plug the spout on the pan or pull the tube at the welders shop.
Coolant overflow tank Done
AC Compressor (any warnings?) Done
AVLS Camshaft solenoid sensor thingy (really worried about this one!) not that bad really.

If it makes you feel any better both of our '08s weeping from the same spot.

Can you explain how to remove that solenoid? It's the only thing left in the way! Here is a picture of it with red circles around the only 3 bolts I can see..but It might be even easier than that?

I think I am going to leave the dip stick in...unless its really easy.

flstffxe · Sep 19, 2011

Too much to type, See below. The inner timing belt cover may need to come off or be loosened up so it can be flexed out of the way to get every thing off:shrug:

Oil Consumption or a leak? Help Please!

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soobyDO!

flstffxe

trailangel

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