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Old 04-26-2012, 04:15 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Robert Harik View Post
I have torn down / rebuilt many engines( higher change intervals definitely cause more wear/ damage) and these longer oil change intervals are one of the biggest jokes/ mistake ever perpetrated on the car buying public.
That, I will disagree with. I have pretty much spent my entire life around engines both professionally and privately.

Materials used in engines and designs of those engines have come along way over the years in wear management. Low tension rings that only exert the force needed to on the cylinder walls, tighter end gaps that allow for less blow by to contaminate the oil. Better alloys with slower wear rates for pistons, rings, cylinder liners, timing chains, gears, bearings.....

Air and oil filters have greater efficiencies and capacities then they did even 10 years ago.

Meanwhile the oils we have at market today to use have improved too. The base stocks are more robust, additive packages have improved........

I see no reason to fear running the manufactured speced intervals for when the vehicle was built. They are speced for the wear that engine is known to generate with oil grades/specs available at that time. Those intervals are listed in the manual.

Would I have an issue running a '60s, '70s American V8 engine for a 7,500 mile OCI on oil available at that time? YES. Modern oils have much improved over their yester year counter parts, and with UOAs to trend wear many people have found many modern oils can even support longer OCI then the manufacture speced for the engine at the time of build.

Do we have modern engines that are harder on oil then engines from years ago? Yes.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:31 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stan_t View Post
....
Rings will be broken in (or not, depends on how you drive) way before that, like within the first 1,000 miles. I break in my rings within the first 100 miles.

Stan
I agree.
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:03 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Ha Ha, and the debate go's on
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:46 PM   #34 (permalink)
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haha, there's no debate. I believe the engineers who designed these engines rather than believing wives tales.
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:13 PM   #35 (permalink)
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No harm in changing it more frequently though, cheap insurance.

Not sure on the newer engines, but on the older EJ motors, Subaru had a "severe duty" schedule of around 3500-ish miles. Severe duty would be for people who drive their cars harder, up and down mountain passes frequently, in a hot climate (desert), frequently drive off road, etc. If you drive like a normal, sane person, 7500 should be fine. If you drive more aggressively, or put your car through a lot more, I'd step it down to 5,000 or fewer depending on the circumstances.

I drive my car hard though. I lived in the desert, drove off road a lot, took many trips with the car packed to the limit blasting up and down mountain passes, so I always stuck with the 3000-3500-ish mile change. Especially with the turbo, being that thermal breakdown of oils will happen faster with all that extra heat.

MORE importantly than changing the oil is maintaining proper oil level. Even if you change your oil every 7500 miles, it only takes once to run it a quart or two (or even more) low on oil, and boom goes your engine. This is CRITICAL for XT owners. Dirty oil at the proper level is much better than low or no oil.
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:52 PM   #36 (permalink)
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No harm in changing it more frequently though, cheap insurance.
Hardly cheap - for me so far it would have been at least $1280 wasted, along with time, inconvenience and the cost of disposing the used oil. We are not legally allowed to dump it here - it must be taken to a recycling centre, about 15km across the other side of the city.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:22 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Cry and whine about how much it costs to change the oil in a Subaru...

Change the oil in a farm use Ford F250 Powerstroke...

Then you have a right to cry...
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:33 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Inspector View Post
haha, there's no debate. I believe the engineers who designed these engines rather than believing wives tales.
Your right, there really is no debate, you should change the oil when its needed( how dirty or broken down the oil is) , not just on a predetermined schedule. That is determined by the type of engine, the mechanical age( wear) and what conditions its operated in( loads /heat /cold).

If you follow your Subaru's "Warranty and Maintenance" ( written by engineers ) guidelines, most people are operating their engines in the "severe driving conditions" category, at least part of the year( probably most of the year). "ENGINE OIL CHANGE EVERY 3750 MILES OR 3.75 MONTHS"

As far as wives tales go , my opinions are based on personal experience, working as a mechanic and in auto machine shops for 30+ years.

Dino oil breaks down faster/ easier than synthetics , but they both become contaminated at the same rate.

I won't run dino in most newer engines ( they run too hot, and cause oil cracking and then slugging) and if I do use it , never over 3000 miles.

Synthetics hold up much better, but are still too dirty/ contaminated/ additive depleted for use over 5000 miles( or over three/four months) . This gets worse with age. The oil gets dirtier much faster as the engine starts to wear( blow by).

Call around to Subaru specialty shops and see what they say.

I am of the take care of it ( preventive maintenance) and fix it before it breaks school. That means having something to rebuild at 250,000 miles, not driving it into the ground.

Last edited by Robert Harik; 05-05-2012 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 05-05-2012, 03:03 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Robert Harik View Post
, never over 3000 miles.

Synthetics hold up much better, but are still too dirty/ contaminated/ additive depleted for use over 5000 miles( or over three/four months) . .
Might have been good information 30 years ago but not today.

Honda recommends 10,000 mile oil changes on dino oil.
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:16 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jmemcse517 View Post
Does anyone with a 2012 really wait that long for the first oil change?

The dealership put a sticker in my window that said due at 3500 miles, and sent me a coupon for my first oil change free at 3500 miles. Are they just uninformed?

I'm fast approaching 3000 miles and was getting ready to schedule a service appointment. So I figured I'd use the my.subaru.com portal when I noticed the online Maintenance Schedule chart shows first oil change at 7.5 months / 7500 miles.

Maybe I'm just old school, but I'm not entirley comfortable with that. But I guess Subaru knows more than I do, so I'll go with it.
I might be wrong but my 2012 gets the first oil change at 3,000 then the next at 7500. The first is 3,000 the second is 7500 but I will change that 7,500 to 5,000 due to short trips. You have wrong info.
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:42 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Robert Harik View Post
If you follow your Subaru's "Warranty and Maintenance" ( written by engineers ) guidelines, most people are operating their engines in the "severe driving conditions" category, at least part of the year( probably most of the year). "ENGINE OIL CHANGE EVERY 3750 MILES OR 3.75 MONTHS"
This thread is about the first oil change, which the maintenance schedule specifically says to run long. We're not talking about subsequent oil changes throughout the life of the car.
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:27 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by otto the clown View Post
I might be wrong but my 2012 gets the first oil change at 3,000 then the next at 7500. The first is 3,000 the second is 7500 but I will change that 7,500 to 5,000 due to short trips. You have wrong info.
You are in fact wrong. Subaru changed the Maintenance Schedule to indicate the first oil change at 7500 miles or 7.5 months. Check the chart or call your dealer.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:14 PM   #43 (permalink)
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So MySubaru's 2011-2012 Oil Chart says every 7500 miles but in "severe" driving conditions it goes down to 3750 miles. On my maintenance schedule, the recommendation is an oil change every 3750 miles or 3.75 months. Also, it says to use 5W-30 but my dealer said the recommended is 0W-20.

As of now, I am planning on using Mobil 5W-30 at 3750 miles for my first one. Not sure what to do for subsequent oil changes. I may continue to do it at every 3750 or maybe 5000. I don't drive much so I will most likely reach the 3.75 month mark first. Does it really matter so much about the time limit? I've had the car for a little over 4 months but am not even at 3000 miles. Consolidating all this info, what is your recommendation for my first oil change? Wait til 3750 (which might be another month or longer) or go ahead do it at my earliest convenience because it is already past the 3.75 month mark? Or something completely different altogether?

This is my first car and will be the first oil change so please bear with me. Thanks so much, I really appreciate all the help!!

-Paul
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:21 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Your dealer is mistakenly recommending the FB engine oil for your EJ engine. Please ignore this, as the FXT requires 5w30 synthetic oil.

Personally, I would have a hard time running oil over 5k miles in a turbo application. But I do consider a super or turbo engine to be automatically severe service.

Are you going to be performing your own services or taking it to a mechanic? There are a few good synthetic oils on sale right now if you are not dead set on M1.
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:44 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkthedreamer View Post
So MySubaru's 2011-2012 Oil Chart says every 7500 miles but in "severe" driving conditions it goes down to 3750 miles. On my maintenance schedule, the recommendation is an oil change every 3750 miles or 3.75 months. Also, it says to use 5W-30 but my dealer said the recommended is 0W-20.

As of now, I am planning on using Mobil 5W-30 at 3750 miles for my first one. Not sure what to do for subsequent oil changes. I may continue to do it at every 3750 or maybe 5000. I don't drive much so I will most likely reach the 3.75 month mark first. Does it really matter so much about the time limit? I've had the car for a little over 4 months but am not even at 3000 miles. Consolidating all this info, what is your recommendation for my first oil change? Wait til 3750 (which might be another month or longer) or go ahead do it at my earliest convenience because it is already past the 3.75 month mark? Or something completely different altogether?

This is my first car and will be the first oil change so please bear with me. Thanks so much, I really appreciate all the help!!

-Paul
Paul,

The FB25 non-turbo engine in the 2012 Forester X has somewhat different maintenance requirements than those for the EJ25 turbo engine in the 2012 Forester XT. Additonally, Subaru's maintenance schedules have evolved a bit in the last year or so.

In general, the 2012 FB25 non-turbo engine "requires" 0W-20 synthetic engine oil. The initial oil change is now scheduled for 7,500 miles or 7.5 months, whichever comes first. Subsequent oil and filter change intervals (OCI) are 7.5K miles / 7.5K months. When the car is driven in "severe driving conditions", the engine oil (an sometimes the filter) should be changed at 3.75K miles / 3.75 months.

The FB25 non-turbo engine was introduced in the U.S. Forester X for the 2011 model year. The original initial oil change requirement was at 3K miles / 3 months, but Subaru has relaxed that in late 2011 / early 2012.

In general, the 2012 EJ25 turbo engine "requires" 5W-30 synthetic engine oil. The initial oil change is now scheduled for 7,500 miles or 7.5 months, whichever comes first. Subsequent oil and filter change intervals (OCI) are 7.5K miles / 7.5K months. When the car is driven in "severe driving conditions", the engine oil (and sometimes the filter) should be changed at 3.75K miles / 3.75 months.

Subaru used to consider turbo-engine as a severe duty application. For example, see Note 1 on the second page of this 2009 Maintenance Schedule. However, the "turbo engine severe duty" notation has been deleted from this note in the 2012 Maintenance Schedule. Check the Warranty and Maintenance Booklet that came with your car. Additionally, cars101.com, an unofficial Subaru website run bu a Subaru salesman, lists the 2012 Turbo engine's OCI as 7.5K miles / 7,5 months.

The above is my interpretation of published Subaru material. I hope that it answer some of your questions and help you decide how to best maintain your car. Personally, I wouldn't wait for 7.5 K miles / 7.5 months to do the first engine oil and filter change; I did that on my car at 3K miles, and even that was a stretch for me. I'm also still struggling with the notion of long OCI's, so, instead of two OCI's every 15K miles, I'll probably work my way to three.

HTH,
JIm / crewzer
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