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Old 03-16-2006, 12:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Some IHI VF turbo info

I stumbled upon some good info today while following some links in a for-sale thread on NASIOC. This is a good comparison between all of the different IHI turbos and I thought it may be worth passing on. I'm not sure about the original source of this information, but I found it here: Tech info

Quote:
The VF series (VF22, VF23, VF24, VF29, VF30) are the most common direct replacement turbos. All VF-series turbochargers use the same roller bearing, water-cooled core assembly. The differences are in their wheels and housings to achieve different flows.

The VF22 has the largest potential for peak horsepower. In other words, in the IHI model range, the VF 22 supports the highes boost levels. It is capable of running up to 25 psi. Because it is a roller bearing turbo, turbo lag is minimal...the boost comes on around 3300 rpm. Expect to max out the VF22 somewhere in the 400-450 hp range.

The VF23 starts the middle ground. It comes on boost around 3100 rpm and is capable of running 20 psi of boost. Expect to max out the VF23 somewhere in the 300-350 hp range.

The VF 24 starts to come on around 2900 rpm and will significantly improve power through the midrange over the stock TD04 turbo. However, the VF 24 is only capable of running around 17 psi.

The VF23 and VF 24 are a great replacement for those who value drivability higher than maximum power.

The VF29 & VF30 delivers a very wide increase in torque over the standard TD-series turbos. It is important to note that the VF30 is not a roller bearing turbo.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IHI Turbos

VF22
This turbo has the highest output potential of all of the IHI VF series turbos and is the best choice for those who are looking for loads of top end power. The top end power however, does not come without a cost. The VF22 spools significantly slower than the rest of the IHI models due to the larger P20 exhaust housing and is much less suited for daily driving than some of the other models. Although the largest VF series turbo, the VF22 is not quite optimal for stroked engines or those who wish to run more than 20PSI of boost.

VF23
This turbo is considered a great all-around turbo. Like the VF22 it utilizes the largest P20 exhaust housing. This housing is mated with a smaller compressor housing of the of the VF24. This turbo is considered optimal in applications with range from mild to slightly wild. It does not have the same top end power of the VF22, but spools up significantly quicker.

VF24
This turbo shares its compressor housing with the VF23 however, this housing is mated with a smaller (P18) exhaust side. The smaller characteristics of this turbo allow it to provide ample bottom end power and quick spool. This turbo is very popular for Imprezas with automatic transmissions and Group N rally cars.

VF28
This turbo came standard on the STi Version 5. In terms of overall size, it is smaller than the VF22, VF30 and VF34, and about same size as the VF23.

VF29
This Turbo is nearly identical to the VF24, with the same compressor and exhaust housings. However the compressor wheel in the VF29 is has been changed slightly. The changes made to the compressor wheel in this model are generally viewed as improvements, and as such this unit is typically chosen over the VF24.

VF30
The VF30 is commonly considered the best bang for the buck turbo in the IHI VF series line. A relatively new model the VF30 features the same exhaust housing as the VF24 but a larger compressor side similar to the VF22. The combination of these two parts results in increased output potential without the lag associated with the VF22. Although it doesn't offer the top end supremacy of the VF22, the VF30 is a great compromise between these unit and the quicker spooling models.

VF34
The VF34 is nearly identical to the VF30, with the same exhaust housing and compressor. However the VF34 goes back to the ball bearing design, and in doing so achieves full boost approximately 500RPM sooner than the comparable VF30. The VF34 is the most recent IHI design and as such costs slightly more than its counterpart. Top end performance and maximum output are identical to the 30.

VF35
VF35 The VF35 has identical internals as the VF30 and it uses divided thrust bearings. However, the exhaust housing is a P15 which means this turbo will have fantastic spool characteristics. This turbo is standard on the new WRX Type RA. LIMITED SUPPLY.

VF36
Roller bearing version of the twin scroll VF37, also has a titanium turbine and shaft for even quicker spool. Same compressor housing as VF30/34, however twin scroll P25 exhaust housing provides slightly better top end output due to reduced exhaust pulse interference. This turbo is good for 400HP and used on JDM STI Spec C from 2003 onwards.

VF37 (thrust bearing)
Enter the age of twin scroll IHI turbos. Same compressor housing as VF30/34, however has a new twin scroll P25 exhaust housing that provides slightly better top end output due to reduced exhaust pulse interference. Twin scroll also provides better spool up for improved low down response over the VF30/34. This turbo is good for 400HP and used on JDM STI from 2003 onwards.

VF38
Twin scroll turbo with titanium turbine and shaft. Smaller compressor housing than VF36/VF37 provides tremendous spool up capabilities but less top end than VF36/37. The spool capabilities of this turbo are demonstrated on the JDM Legacy GT, which reaches peak torque at 2400RPM.

VF39
Single scroll turbo used on USDM STI and latest 2.5L STIs released internationally. Smaller than VF30/VF34.

VF42
Exclusive turbo to the S203/S204 models, this features a twin scroll design with a slightly larger compressor than the VF36/37 turbos and different turbine design (more blades). The VF42 is a roller-bearing turbo and is likely of similar size to the VF22 turbo, but with twin scroll exhaust housing for faster spool and superior top end performance due to reduced exhaust pulse interference.
Edit: Added spec/comparison sheet for IHI turbos published by MRT Performance in Australia
Attached Files
File Type: pdf turbodata.pdf (353.0 KB, 959 views)
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Old 03-16-2006, 01:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The list is missing the VF40, which is unique to the '05+ Legacy 2.5GT.

The VF40 is similar in size and performance characteristics to the Mitsubishi TD04E that is standard on the WRX and Forester XT, but features a vertical-outlet compressor housing that mates directly to the inlet flange of the Legacy's crossflow intercooler.

Deadbolt (Jerry Hagan) makes a number of different VF40 hybrid turbochargers to upgrade the Legacy in the stock location. Several of these retain the IHI turbine housing for mild upgrades, and he also hand-builds a higher performance version that utilizes a Mitsubishi TD06H turbine housing with a Mitsu 20g compressor wheel, mated into a remachined IHI VF40 compressor housing for stock fitment. That configuration is good for well over 350 wheel horsepower with supporting mods and good tuning.

Deadbolt's site is www.boostplanet.com
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Old 03-16-2006, 02:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porter
The list is missing the VF40, which is unique to the '05+ Legacy 2.5GT.

The VF40 is similar in size and performance characteristics to the Mitsubishi TD04E that is standard on the WRX and Forester XT, but features a vertical-outlet compressor housing that mates directly to the inlet flange of the Legacy's crossflow intercooler.

Deadbolt (Jerry Hagan) makes a number of different VF40 hybrid turbochargers to upgrade the Legacy in the stock location. Several of these retain the IHI turbine housing for mild upgrades, and he also hand-builds a higher performance version that utilizes a Mitsubishi TD06H turbine housing with a Mitsu 20g compressor wheel, mated into a remachined IHI VF40 compressor housing for stock fitment. That configuration is good for well over 350 wheel horsepower with supporting mods and good tuning.

Deadbolt's site is www.boostplanet.com
Hmmmmmmm :think: I may have to look into that for the Outback.
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Old 03-16-2006, 03:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I think that info is from MRT, or an updated version thereof.
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Old 03-16-2006, 03:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Here is a chart that list out most of the current turbos, and how much cfm they flow. I got this chart from a local member on www.mnsubaruclub.com so don't give all the credit for sharing it here.

Turbo Type Approx flow @ pressure
Stock Turbo 360 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF 25 370 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- estimated
IHI VF 26 390 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- estimated
T3 60 trim 400 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF 27 400 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- estimated
IHI VF 24/28/29 410 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- estimated
========= 422 CFM max flow for a 2 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.0 (14.7 PSI) 7000 RPM =======
IHI VF 23 423 CFM at 14.7 PSI
FP STOCK HYBRID 430 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- derived from HP potential listed on web
IHI VF-30 435 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- estimated
SR 30 435 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF-22 440 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- refigured
T04E 40 trim 460 CFM at 14.7 PSI
========= 464 CFM max flow for a 2.2 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.0 (14.7 PSI) 7000 rpm =======
PE1818 490 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- estimated from max flow numbers
Small 16G 505 CFM at 14.7 PSI
ION Spec (stg 0) 525 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- per vendor post 12-27-2002
========= 526 CFM max flow for a 2.5 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.0 (14.7 PSI) 7000 RPM =======
Large 16G 550 CFM at 14.7 PSI
SR 40 595 CFM at 14.7 PSI
18G 600 CFM at 14.7 PSI
PE 1820 630 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- estimated from max flow numbers
20G 650 CFM at 14.7 PSI
SR 50 710 CFM at 14.7 PSI
GT-30 725 CFM at 14.7 PSI
60-1 725 CFM at 14.7 PSI
GT-35R 820 CFM at 14.7 PSI
T72 920 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- Note you would have to spin a 2.0 L
engine at about 14,000 rpm to flow this much air.

IHI VF 25 395 CFM at 18 PSI <--- estimated
IHI VF 26 400 CFM at 18 PSI <--- estimated
T3 60 trim 410 CFM at 20 PSI
IHI VF 27 420 CFM at 18 PSI <--- estimated
IHI VF 24/28/29 425 CFM at 18 PSI <--- estimated
IHI VF 23 430 CFM at 18 PSI <--- estimated
IHI VF-30 460 CFM at 18.0 PSI <--- estimate based on trap speeds of cars running this turbo
AVO 320HP 465 CFM at 17.5 PSI
T04E 40 trim 465 CFM at 22 PSI
FP STOCK HYBRID 490 CFM at 18.0 PSI
IHI VF-22 490 CFM at 18.0 PSI <--- refigured
SR 30 490 CFM at 22 PSI
Small 16G 490 CFM at 22 PSI
ION Spec (stg 0) 500 CFM at 19 PSI <--- per vendor post 12-27-2002
PE1818 515 CFM at 22 PSI <--- estimated from manufactures rated max power
Large 16G 520 CFM at 22 PSI <--- upgraded flow some on review of compressor map
========= 526 CFM max flow for a 2 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.5 (22 PSI) 7000 rpm =======

========= 578 CFM max flow for a 2.2 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.5 (22 PSI) 7000 rpm =======
HKS GT2835 400 hp 580 CFM at 22 PSI
MRT 400 580 CFM at 16 PSI <--- added
AVO 400HP 580 CFM at 17.5 PSI
MRT 450 650 CFM at 19 PSI <--- added
AVO 450HP 650 CFM at 20.0 PSI
SR 40 650 CFM at 22 PSI <--- added, got lost some how in editing
========= 658 CFM max flow for a 2.5 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.5 (22 PSI) 7000 rpm =======
HKS GT3037 460 hp 670 CFM at 22 PSI
PE 1820 680 CFM at 22 PSI <--- estimated from manufactures rated max power
20G 695 CFM at 20.0 PSI <--- added
HKS GT3040 490 hp 710 CFM at 22 PSI
AVO 500HP 725 CFM at 23.0 PSI
SR 50 770 CFM at 22 PSI
GT-30 790 CFM at 22 PSI
60-1 800 CFM at 22 PSI
HKS GT3240 570 hp 830 CFM at 22 PSI
GT-35R 880 CFM at 22 PSI
T72 1000 CFM at 22 PSI <--- note you would have to run a 2.0 L engine
at >40 PSI boost to flow this much air
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Old 03-16-2006, 04:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I detect a sticky...
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Old 03-16-2006, 07:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default pick my turbo...

ok, I ran into that link also browsing thru the nabisco classifieds and have been flip floppin' btw turbos for the last few months now.

My plans for the car are 99% street (more traffic and streets than highway) and don't plan to hit the strip ever so high numbers at the top-end are of no concern for me, although welcomed.

I am currently and/or in-process on running full catted TBE, P&P&C stock sti headers, USDM tmic, walbro 255 fp, uppipe, custom tune and i think that's it, and I WANT to use stock injectors, which is why I want stay in the VF family. (I considered 18g/20g turbos, etc. but I don't want to go thru upgrading injectors).

My decision also depends on pricing.

I have narrowed it down to the vf22, vf23, vf30, vf34. (no vf39 because of the "crack" issue, although not really an issue, but I'm just anal about that kind of stuff).

-vf22 (used ~$400-500/new as low as $600) heard different things about using stock 560cc injectors on these, some say it won't be efficient and they max out and others say they work fine...highest numbers from the 22 probably, but lag or no lag on the 2.5?

-vf23 (used ~$400-500/new $800-900) I've seen a comparo dyno graph(wrx) with this and the vf30 and the vf30 has the higher hp number but the 23's graph shifts to left a lot more. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/IHI-V...QQcmdZViewItem

-vf30 (used ~$300-450/new as low as $700) not ball-bearing, but is that really necessary? spools up slower than vf34, but again, is that a concern for the 2.5L?

-vf34 (used ~$500-600/new $850) most expensive...probably my choice if it wasn't about money.

I'd rather buy new of course, but if i can find a good deal on a used one, I'd jump on it and probably get it ceramic coated by deadbolt or similar.

I've done a lot of reading and most opinions are based on the 2.0L engines so it's hard to really compare performance to the 2.5L, since lag would definitely be minimized. I don't plan on making a total street monster (but close...more of a sleeper) and I don't want to be boosting very high either. I'd like to keep the reliability if the car to the max if possible.

Well, sorry for the rambling...had all this on my mind and needed to let it out. Any comments/opinions would be appreciated. TIA

p.s. Silke, ur 1001 posts makes me feel itty bitty... =P
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Old 03-16-2006, 08:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ant927
ok, I ran into that link also browsing thru the nabisco classifieds and have been flip floppin' btw turbos for the last few months now.

My plans for the car are 99% street (more traffic and streets than highway) and don't plan to hit the strip ever so high numbers at the top-end are of no concern for me, although welcomed.

I am currently and/or in-process on running full catted TBE, P&P&C stock sti headers, USDM tmic, walbro 255 fp, uppipe, custom tune and i think that's it, and I WANT to use stock injectors, which is why I want stay in the VF family. (I considered 18g/20g turbos, etc. but I don't want to go thru upgrading injectors).

My decision also depends on pricing.

I have narrowed it down to the vf22, vf23, vf30, vf34. (no vf39 because of the "crack" issue, although not really an issue, but I'm just anal about that kind of stuff).

-vf22 (used ~$400-500/new as low as $600) heard different things about using stock 560cc injectors on these, some say it won't be efficient and they max out and others say they work fine...highest numbers from the 22 probably, but lag or no lag on the 2.5?

-vf23 (used ~$400-500/new $800-900) I've seen a comparo dyno graph(wrx) with this and the vf30 and the vf30 has the higher hp number but the 23's graph shifts to left a lot more. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/IHI-V...QQcmdZViewItem

-vf30 (used ~$300-450/new as low as $700) not ball-bearing, but is that really necessary? spools up slower than vf34, but again, is that a concern for the 2.5L?

-vf34 (used ~$500-600/new $850) most expensive...probably my choice if it wasn't about money.

I'd rather buy new of course, but if i can find a good deal on a used one, I'd jump on it and probably get it ceramic coated by deadbolt or similar.

I've done a lot of reading and most opinions are based on the 2.0L engines so it's hard to really compare performance to the 2.5L, since lag would definitely be minimized. I don't plan on making a total street monster (but close...more of a sleeper) and I don't want to be boosting very high either. I'd like to keep the reliability if the car to the max if possible.

Well, sorry for the rambling...had all this on my mind and needed to let it out. Any comments/opinions would be appreciated. TIA

p.s. Silke, ur 1001 posts makes me feel itty bitty... =P
you should pm "dadscruizzer" he's running a VF22 on stock injectors and has very respectable 1/4 times. His car hits boost in the high 2000 rpm/low 3000 RPM range. his setup is very sweet and because of the low cost of the VF22 is probably your best choice, financially.
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Old 03-17-2006, 04:56 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I vote for making this a sticky.
The dyno charts on anti927's link suprised me on the low rpm power loss over the stock turbo. Granted, that the chart's from a 2.0 WRX. What would be the best turbo for both increasing power and keeping low end grunt.
Or, is there realy no replacement for displacement?
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Old 03-17-2006, 05:39 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Hmm, I will have to look more into this VF-42...sounds nice.
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Old 03-17-2006, 05:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirwilliam
Hmm, I will have to look more into this VF-42...sounds nice.
I don't think a twin scroll turbo will bolt into our cars without other modifications, but I'm not sure exactly what is involved.
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Old 03-17-2006, 05:59 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pleiad7
I don't think a twin scroll turbo will bolt into our cars without other modifications, but I'm not sure exactly what is involved.
Yeah, they do need modification but I like it what it does.;-)
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Old 03-17-2006, 06:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirwilliam
Yeah, they do need modification but I like it what it does.;-)
twin scroll VF42 setup would be sweet...it should spool just as fast as stock and make gobs of power!
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Old 03-17-2006, 06:57 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCammin
twin scroll VF42 setup would be sweet...it should spool just as fast as stock and make gobs of power!
Exactly!;-)
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Old 03-17-2006, 08:39 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Ideally, you should have the complete JDM STi twinscroll header and up-pipe to mate to the VF42.
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