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Old 04-05-2010, 09:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Over-Advanced Timing

Need to bounce my thinking off a couple of people to make sure it makes sense.

I got a P0011 and a P0021 codes (Intake camshaft position/timing over-advanced) about a week ago, and the car feels like it's towing something huge (down on power). Had the turbo checked, fine. Checked the timing just a few hours ago, and I want to make sure I'm not "under" thinking things here.

Below are pictures of the critical timing marks. The intake/exhaust cam pulley marks and the crankshaft mark. Now, the intake/exhaust marks line up perfectly to one another and to the timing belt cover marks as well, so those are fine. What doesn't line up is the crankshaft mark (it looks like it's retarded by 2 or 3 teeth).

So the conclusion I have come to is that the timing belt skipped two or three teeth on the crankshaft sprocket alone (causing it to be retarded, and the intake/exhaust cams to be advanced). And since the exhaust cams do not have position sensors (only the intake cams do), that's the reason it's throwing up both codes only, correct?







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Old 04-06-2010, 02:52 AM   #2 (permalink)
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It certainly looks like that is what has happened, yes.

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Old 04-06-2010, 05:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Sure sounds like it. Any idea why it jumped? Did you tach it out recently or is your tensioner bad?
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Old 04-06-2010, 11:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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No idea why it jumped. Tensioner is new (about 5000 miles ago). Was sitting at a stop light, engine stuttered and immediately got the CEL codes.

I will say that earlier in the day, I was cleaning my car out from all the mud from when I fell into that mud pit. I'm thinking that the combo of me spraying out the engine bay, combined with the amount of mud that was in there had something to do with it, I'm sure.

A local tuner of mine said that the max the belt can skip is 4 teeth before it'll start smacking valves, glad it only looks like it's 2 or 3.
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Old 04-06-2010, 11:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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If it happens again, I would look into putting the timing belt guide in place ( item 6 in the illustration below ). It's on the M/T cars due to the quick change in engine RPM when shifting. This can cause the belt to jump a tooth or two. Automatics are not supposed to be prone to this phenomena. But with increase HP, I guess anything is possible.

Camshaft and timing belt ? Illustration #1, Subaru FORESTER ? Subaru parts catalog
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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^^ Yeah, I was wondering why mine didn't have that, don't know why they just didn't put it on all models.

On a side note, the crankshaft sprocket, and a few other ones had impacted mud in the grooves that I literally had to scrape out with a screwdriver, so I'm pretty sure that's the cause of the belt jumping.

Who knew submerging their car in liquified mud halfway up their headlamps is bad for the timing belt?
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I think I might be having the same problem. Is there a HOWTO on how to fix this?

I would like to do it myself instead of going to the dealer.
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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^ hehe, if you're asking here, I'd suggest finding someone local to help you. You should be able to find the shop manual online and it spells it out, but it can be somewhat confusing to a first timer.
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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FIXED.

Just took the timing belt off, and re-installed it using the Subaru manual. The belt indeed skipped 2 teeth on the crankshaft sprocket. Re-installed the belt and made sure the tooth count was correct between the marks.

The Subaru manual was a huge help with being very straight forward and showing very nifty pictures which explained how the belt goes on the sprockets (and how the marks like up with the belt at any given mark), and it's running perfectly.
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