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Old 11-20-2012, 12:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Happy with stock turbo?

Hello all! I've been researching mods for the 2011 FXT, and have gotten a lot of good feedback from Nate and Superacerc here.

However, I think I may have lost sight of my initial goals, and want to re-focus a little.

Our "fun" car is a 2005 350Z automatic convertible. Literally, it's the *slowest* 350Z combination made. My goal is for our new DD (the FXT) to accelerate as well as, or better than, the Z.

I initially figured a catted DP, & AP w/ OTS map would be good to go. Then I read of wastegate flutter with the TD04 @ "stage 2". That's when I started looking into turbo swaps, and may have lost my focus.

I live in El Paso, TX; heat's an issue down here. Whatever else I do, I'll install a PTP (?) lava turbo blanket, and some heat-reflective tape (need to research this more) on the TMIC, and OE heatshield. I plan to do the "bulletproof" TMIC mod, just for peace of mind.

I also plan to have the car e-tuned, to get more out of it than the OTS maps will give. Ray @ turbotektuning comes highly recommmended, but I haven't looked too deeply into this yet, either.

SO...

Those that have (or have had) "stage 2" mods: Can I get where I wanna be with the little TD04?

Thoughts on the mods I have in mind?
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Honestly if you want to have more zip than your 350z given the weight of the foz I would look into a larger turbo and intercooler especially if your going to have it dyno tuned. Stage 2 is ok and zippy but you grow out of it fast. It really depends on how much money your comfortable spending.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'd say go E85 on the TD04. Your stock injectors should be up to it and it looks like you've got E85 stations in El Paso. E85 likes heat. It burns cooler and is very resistant to detonation so it's great in the warmer climates. Plus it will give you about 15% more HP on the same turbo as 91 octane.

This guy is making the same hp and more torque w/E85 on a TD04 than my 18G on 91 and it's only a 2.0 litre
TD04 and E85 WRX - Nearly 275whp 300wtrq - NASIOC

And you can keep a 91 map on your Cobb for easy switching in case you aren't near an E85 station or what have you... Best part is it only costs you the price of a tune (and maybe a few pennies per mile depending on 91 prices) for a significant increase. For those who are open to it, it's one of the best bang for your buck modifications out there.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I'd say go E85 on the TD04. .
Ive been hearing alot of people going with E85 and have basically taken a stand against promoting ethanol fuels. I only have one station here that sells pure fuel and use them exclusively. We are using an increasing amount of our food stocks namely corn as fuel and being driven away from one of our largest and cheapest resources in petroleum. This is a very dangerous trend that needs to be exposed before it gets rooted farther in our infrastructure. Ethanol ruins motors and components. Even if you get a nice boost in HP the damage from ethanol in older motors large and small is significant. We are at the cusp of the EPA completely destroying the automotive market and turning us into a European style car market where horsepower is going to be severely limited and large motors are banned from production by EPA restrictions. I didnt mean to go off on a rant but the more E85 is adopted the faster our history of muscle cars and large engines will be restricted by EPA guidlines not to mention depleting our corn supply. So in short dump your td04 and and do it the old fashioned way with more fuel and air.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I went from stage 2, to stage 3 vf52, to vf52 on e85 and now to 20g on e85. If i was to give my own advice i would skip stage 2 all together and just man up for the larger turbo rite from the beginning instead of beating around the bush. Stage 2 is fun but only for like a week and then it gets old.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:41 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Forget the stock turbo unless you have reasons to hang onto it, like cost. If you are not content with it now, you will never be unless the car sheds 1,000lbs somehow.

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Old 11-20-2012, 04:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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In doing a bit of research on the 2 cars seems as to achieve the "accelerate as good as" you need to shed .8 seconds off a 0-60 time.

I come from owning a 95 300zx 5 speed manual and you just cannot compare the 2 in my opinion. Seat of the pants driving the Z feels much faster but I really feel that my XT is almost if not just as fast as my Z was, and my Z was mildly modified my XT is stock.

I would agree with stan if you want to feel faster than the Z you will have to get rid of the TD04, you wont be happy till you upgrade
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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...
The SGs were as quick or quicker than the 350z, there was an ad about it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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OP wants to beat his 350z roadster and if that = happiness he might not need a bigger turbo...
The 350z roadster is rated around (manual) 5.6 0-60 and 14.1 or so in the 1/4. A stock 09 FXT is around 6.5 0-60. A solid stage 2 tune should beat the 350z. Their weight is very close (FXT is actually lighter) and a stage 2 FXT will have equivelent to more HP and definately more torque. (coming from a former 350z owner, 03' track edition 6 spd lightly modded)

Off topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoolord View Post
Ive been hearing alot of people going with E85 and have basically taken a stand against promoting ethanol fuels. I only have one station here that sells pure fuel and use them exclusively. We are using an increasing amount of our food stocks namely corn as fuel and being driven away from one of our largest and cheapest resources in petroleum. This is a very dangerous trend that needs to be exposed before it gets rooted farther in our infrastructure. Ethanol ruins motors and components. Even if you get a nice boost in HP the damage from ethanol in older motors large and small is significant. We are at the cusp of the EPA completely destroying the automotive market and turning us into a European style car market where horsepower is going to be severely limited and large motors are banned from production by EPA restrictions. I didnt mean to go off on a rant but the more E85 is adopted the faster our history of muscle cars and large engines will be restricted by EPA guidlines not to mention depleting our corn supply.
You're lucky, I don't know of any stations in my area that sell pure fuel anymore. I'd have to disagree with some of your blanket statements though.
Ethanol infrastructure is already set up, that's why it's still cheaper than gasoline even though the subsidies have been gone for almost a year now.

Yes, it damages old engines but those are pretty much off the road so it's a non-issue.

I was just in Europe 2 weeks ago and they have E85 as well as regular fuel. Their regular gasoline is also supplemented with Ethanol as is most of ours (at least what I saw in Germany, Romania and Austria) The only difference between their system and our is they tax the crap out of gasoline so the price difference between E85 and gasoline is even bigger.
They also have modern day muscle cars just like us, but we usually get the de-tuned versions of their cars though (where are those Forester STi's at again?) So to say going to a European style car market is a bad thing doesn't quite make sense to me...? Now I don't envy their fuel prices with premium at $9/gallon so I agree with you on that point, but I do love their selection of cars and drivetrains.

But if you can point me towards some info on our changing infrastruce, the threat E85 poses and upcoming/iniment EPA changes I love to be enlightened. I'm not that smart but I can't make the link between E85 becoming popular and the loss of musle cars?
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Stock turbos are fun up until a certain point, which is the point at which your fighting the laws of physics.

E85 is nice, but the gunk it leaves behind is pretty nasty from what ive seen. Id run it myself if i was able to, but there arent any remotley local to me in NJ. Im not sure why i leaves the gunk behind that it does, my only guess could be the different organic molecules or someting, as opposed to the standard carbon-hydrogen ones which have a higher BTU rating.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shef View Post
OP wants to beat his 350z roadster and if that = happiness he might not need a bigger turbo...
The 350z roadster is rated around (manual) 5.6 0-60 and 14.1 or so in the 1/4. A stock 09 FXT is around 6.5 0-60. A solid stage 2 tune should beat the 350z. Their weight is very close (FXT is actually lighter) and a stage 2 FXT will have equivelent to more HP and definately more torque. (coming from a former 350z owner, 03' track edition 6 spd lightly modded)

Off topic:


You're lucky, I don't know of any stations in my area that sell pure fuel anymore. I'd have to disagree with some of your blanket statements though.
Ethanol infrastructure is already set up, that's why it's still cheaper than gasoline even though the subsidies have been gone for almost a year now.

Yes, it damages old engines but those are pretty much off the road so it's a non-issue.

I was just in Europe 2 weeks ago and they have E85 as well as regular fuel. Their regular gasoline is also supplemented with Ethanol as is most of ours (at least what I saw in Germany, Romania and Austria) The only difference between their system and our is they tax the crap out of gasoline so the price difference between E85 and gasoline is even bigger.
They also have modern day muscle cars just like us, but we usually get the de-tuned versions of their cars though (where are those Forester STi's at again?) So to say going to a European style car market is a bad thing doesn't quite make sense to me...? Now I don't envy their fuel prices with premium at $9/gallon so I agree with you on that point, but I do love their selection of cars and drivetrains.

But if you can point me towards some info on our changing infrastruce, the threat E85 poses and upcoming/iniment EPA changes I love to be enlightened. I'm not that smart but I can't make the link between E85 becoming popular and the loss of musle cars?
I wont hijack dwmiltons thread but may start one in another area. Im just going to say that using our food for fuel when we have enough fuel underground is idiotic for alot of reasons. Ill make a thread somewhere in the next few days.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Look at a dyno graph of a 350 or 370 Z. It is flat and linear, making power to redline and probably above it. There is no way you will match that powerband with a dinky TD04 which will peak and choke seconds later. Numbers don't mean anything, compare graphs.

Larger turbo with a concervative tune, tuned to have as flat a torque curve as possible will do it. My XT with a VF43 was like that and I kept up with a new manual 370Z from 0 to about 60, after that road conditions did not allow it. My short gearing helped, too.

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Old 11-20-2012, 05:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Just to chime in. The TD04 is maxxed out on a Custom Stage II tune. Since it's maxxed and you can't get any more boost, E85 wouldn't be a good choice anyway imo.

If you just want to be as fast as your 350z you'll be right about even with it or slightly faster with the Stock turbo and a custom tune.

I love the fact that I can easily leave a stock 350 behind me and if a new 370 wants to keep up he better have a professional driver (if he could still even keep up). But there's a large $ difference between achieving a Custom Stage II and Turbo swap.

If you could be truly satisfied at being just as fast as the 350 the stock turbo is all you need.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
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if you care at all about performance, ditch the TD04 ASAP. It is not so much about the numbers as it is the powerband. The stock turbo falls off so early that just cruising on the highway at 70 it feels strained if you want to pass.

A VF swap is night and day better. If you could swing something like an 18G that would be better still.

I can't imagine a worse driver than a stage 2 TD04 jacked up on E85. Big sudden torque hit to break driveline parts, then flat on it's face before it gets fun. The only people that tout the TD04 have not driven the same car with a VF or better turbo.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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My 18g puts a smile on my face every day. :)

Heres a short clip from today. This is an unfinished 93 oct tune. I hold the brakes for a decent launch, start moving at the 14sec mark and hit 60 at the 18 sec mark. Ive got equal length headers coming still, a catylitic converter thats getting removed tomorrow and a bunch if timing still left on the table that I haven't used in the tune. Plus E85 will come late december.

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