dual battery/UPS ? - Subaru Forester Owners Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-09-2012, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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dual battery/UPS ?

hi

Well I dont plan to run a refrigerator in the car, but want some extra power source for some electronics, which will not drain the car battery... if left on, when the car is off..

I can cook up something based on the PicoUPS-120-ATV for car application

What would be a good location to dump this thing in the front/under the dash/etc... it will be this small board, and a 4-6Ah sealed lead acid battery....
eg. UB1280(3"x4"x6")or UB1250(3"x4"x4")

G
Quote:
PS: How about the area shown by the arrow ? Can we drill and install some bracket/platform here ?




Last edited by ghat; 02-09-2012 at 04:05 PM.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 01:23 PM
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I am looking at the same spot on my 2010.
I have an auto start that draws only 80 ma but that kills the battery after a few 3-4 days. Vipper says I should start the car every 3 days. They even have something I can turn on every time I stop the car to make it crank up when it reads the voltage getting down to 11 or so.
I am not always aware that I will leave the car that long. I also may not remember to switch the voltage start on (and it is a multi step process).

Any how I have decided to install the viper on a second battery.
On my 2010 the spot you are pointing to already has some holes for mounting something so i will get the battery attached there.

I know I am not the only one with this auto start problem. I have heard now of people with GM, Honda and Toyota's dealing with this as well.

This is the specs of the stuff I plan to put in there. Your drain is probably more than mine... but I want it to go for a long time and if you are just running the fridge for a while it might work. Installing the smaller battery should be much easier and not get in the way latter.

The oem alternator puts out a max of 90 amps.

Batteries plus has this battery (agm should be able to handle the
deep cycle and can mount in any direction):
Power Sonic 12V 18AH AGM Battery W/ .250 Terminal - PS-12180F2
Power Sonic 12V 18AH AGM Battery W/ .250 Terminal - PS-12180F2 - Batteries Plus
Item number: PS-12180F2
Weight: 12.2500 lbs
Voltage: 12V
Capacity: 18AH
18 ah at 50 ma I figure it should go for about : 328 hours (just shy of 14 days)
$80
Size is 7"*7"*3" and weighs 12.25 lbs

They do not carry circuits though. So I found this 95 amp one (is
that enough/to much?) at Napa:

Battery Isolator, 95 Amp
NAPA AUTO PARTS

Part Number: BK 7821769
Product Line: Balkamp
Attributes:
Alternator Type : Multiple Vehicles Equipped w/ CS Series Alternators
& Nippondenso Or Sense Terminals
Contents : Installation Wire & Installation Instructions
Product Application : Multi-Battery Isolation For 1 Alternator & 2 Batteries
Features and Benefits:
Multi-Battery Isolators Eliminates Battery Drain When Two Or More
Battery Banks Are In Charging System, Designed To Exceed OE
Specifications, Solid-State Electronics Allows Each Battery To
Discharge & Charge According To Own Needs
More Efficient & Reliable Than Mechanical Or Solenoid Systems,
Available For Multiple Application Needs
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 01:58 PM
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Heat may be a problem. Under the back seat is the best place for a battery.

2006 XT Manual, Cobb Stage1, Conti 205/60-16
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 04:27 PM
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Anytime you install...

A battery like this, it is a good idea to install a "power block".

Not sure if that is the correct term, but what it does...

The power goes to that battery and THE CAR itself can not drain that battery. They are installed in many vehicles with chair lifts and ramps on vans/trucks with dual battery installations. That way the chair lift can run as often as it needs to...and you don't worry about draining the battery to start the vehicle.

They don't cost much...and will save you if you "forget to turn something off".

The last vehicle we had one on was a Ford Ranger equipped with a "scooter crane". The battery for the scooter crane was in the corner of the bed. That battery also fed an inverter to charger the scooter on the roll. It could also charge the scooter while the truck wasn't running. There were "other things" done in this set-up you wouldn't need(namely a "kill switch" for the inverter if the battery got too low to power the crane).
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 05:33 PM
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@bashfulbernie
Heat here in Alaska is probably not going to be an issue for me and putting it up under the hood has advantages. That location is hotter than where the main battery sits?

@schan1269
Since I am just running the one thing or set of things (key chip computer, cell phone smart start computer) for the auto start it should not get drained by other things in the car.
The isolator may be the power block you are talking about? That keeps the charging separate from the alternator. Will charge the main battery first than the other.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 05:41 PM
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This is the battery I just got not the one listed above.
Same size with 2 more ah and is a true deep cycle not bad for 2 more $.

20Ah Deep Cycle Werker AGM Battery WKDC12-20NB - Batteries Plus
20Ah Deep Cycle Werker AGM Battery WKDC12-20NB
Get long lasting, deep cycle power from this compact 12 volt battery. Werker AGM deep cycle batteries are quality built to insure reliable energy for your cycling needs.
Item number: WKDC12-20NB
Weight: 12.8000 lbs
Voltage: 12V
Capacity: 20AH
Price: $82.99
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 09:29 PM
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You will still have heat issues under the hood. Anchorage is not very cold.

2006 XT Manual, Cobb Stage1, Conti 205/60-16
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 10:08 PM
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@bashfulbernie
Thanks for your help with this!

These are the hottest months average temps here in Anchorage.
June: 62 degrees
July: 65 degrees
August: 64 degrees

record high of 92f though so yeah it can get hot.
Is the spare battery going to get hotter than the main?
Is that location going to be hotter than where the main is located?

Thanks,
Sean
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 12:50 AM
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Yes, it is closer to the exhaust/CC and has no airflow from the front.

2006 XT Manual, Cobb Stage1, Conti 205/60-16
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-17-2012, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digidot View Post
This is the battery I just got not the one listed above.
Same size with 2 more ah and is a true deep cycle not bad for 2 more $.

20Ah Deep Cycle Werker AGM Battery WKDC12-20NB - Batteries Plus
20Ah Deep Cycle Werker AGM Battery WKDC12-20NB
Get long lasting, deep cycle power from this compact 12 volt battery. Werker AGM deep cycle batteries are quality built to insure reliable energy for your cycling needs.
Item number: WKDC12-20NB
Weight: 12.8000 lbs
Voltage: 12V
Capacity: 20AH
Price: $82.99

I guess this is the best battery one can get

EB24-12 / http://www.bb-battery.com/productpages/EB/EB24-12.pdf

based on http://robomowerwiki.com/index.php/Battery_pack

I Myself, however was worried a bit about the weight of the battery, installing there, so I went for this one for now...

Batteries - 12V 12AH VRLA .250 FASTON MOBI


G
PS: I have a NA Foz, so I guess heat issues will be a bit different from the XT owners above. I can see the tarmac/road below the battery so I guess its not as hot up there.
I have not seen a XT so I cannot comment on it.

Last edited by ghat; 03-17-2012 at 04:58 PM.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 07:47 AM
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Underhood?

The PicoUPS is not rated for underhood storage, much less operation. I would put it under the driver's dash, or behind the D shaped panel at the side of the dash if there is enough room. There is a triangle grommet near the brake booster where you can easily run wires thru the firewall. The battery is probably ok underhood, but you should check the manufacturer's specs.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digidot View Post
I am looking at the same spot on my 2010.
I have an auto start that draws only 80 ma but that kills the battery after a few 3-4 days. Vipper says I should start the car every 3 days. They even have something I can turn on every time I stop the car to make it crank up when it reads the voltage getting down to 11 or so.
I am not always aware that I will leave the car that long. I also may not remember to switch the voltage start on (and it is a multi step process).

Any how I have decided to install the viper on a second battery.
On my 2010 the spot you are pointing to already has some holes for mounting something so i will get the battery attached there.

I know I am not the only one with this auto start problem. I have heard now of people with GM, Honda and Toyota's dealing with this as well.

This is the specs of the stuff I plan to put in there. Your drain is probably more than mine... but I want it to go for a long time and if you are just running the fridge for a while it might work. Installing the smaller battery should be much easier and not get in the way latter.

The oem alternator puts out a max of 90 amps.

Batteries plus has this battery (agm should be able to handle the
deep cycle and can mount in any direction):
Power Sonic 12V 18AH AGM Battery W/ .250 Terminal - PS-12180F2
Power Sonic 12V 18AH AGM Battery W/ .250 Terminal - PS-12180F2 - Batteries Plus
Item number: PS-12180F2
Weight: 12.2500 lbs
Voltage: 12V
Capacity: 18AH
18 ah at 50 ma I figure it should go for about : 328 hours (just shy of 14 days)
$80
Size is 7"*7"*3" and weighs 12.25 lbs

They do not carry circuits though. So I found this 95 amp one (is
that enough/to much?) at Napa:

Battery Isolator, 95 Amp
NAPA AUTO PARTS

Part Number: BK 7821769
Product Line: Balkamp
Attributes:
Alternator Type : Multiple Vehicles Equipped w/ CS Series Alternators
& Nippondenso Or Sense Terminals
Contents : Installation Wire & Installation Instructions
Product Application : Multi-Battery Isolation For 1 Alternator & 2 Batteries
Features and Benefits:
Multi-Battery Isolators Eliminates Battery Drain When Two Or More
Battery Banks Are In Charging System, Designed To Exceed OE
Specifications, Solid-State Electronics Allows Each Battery To
Discharge & Charge According To Own Needs
More Efficient & Reliable Than Mechanical Or Solenoid Systems,
Available For Multiple Application Needs

Why does a 80ma draw kill your battery in 3 days.. that works out to about 2-amp-hours/day should take at least 30days to kill a decent battery..

I'd invest in a good aftermarket battery.

Also for the OP.. maybe just invest in a larger(capacity) battery and put some kind of low voltage cutoff on your accessory so it wont totally drain it? I'd recommend a dual useage deep cycle/starting battery if you are going to use it often.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by for4me View Post
The PicoUPS is not rated for underhood storage, much less operation. I would put it under the driver's dash, or behind the D shaped panel at the side of the dash if there is enough room. There is a triangle grommet near the brake booster where you can easily run wires thru the firewall. The battery is probably ok underhood, but you should check the manufacturer's specs.
Yes, I do know that... I am just going to run the battery wires to the driverside under the steering wheel, and mount all the stuff under there. I will also power this with a "add a circuit" fuse holder, so that the main battery is always disconnected when the car is turned off. For now this battery will provide a couple of hidden CL adapters, and later as we move on some on board computing device, for some hobbying/arduino etc fun...
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand View Post
Why does a 80ma draw kill your battery in 3 days.. that works out to about 2-amp-hours/day should take at least 30days to kill a decent battery..

I'd invest in a good aftermarket battery.

Also for the OP.. maybe just invest in a larger(capacity) battery and put some kind of low voltage cutoff on your accessory so it wont totally drain it? I'd recommend a dual useage deep cycle/starting battery if you are going to use it often.
in Alaska I guess you guys need "plugin" non-hybrids... basically you need to have a AC plug on the vehicle...

the AC plug can power a circuit, which
if the AC is plugged in, and the car ignition is off,
1. keeps the battery at warm temperature.
2. keeps trickle charging the battery.
plus you should use a battery blanket to save energy...

now if you can have a induction based charging they are devising for the new hybrids then you need not even plug in ;-)

(I am talking of the stock battery)

G
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghat View Post
I guess this is the best battery one can get

EB24-12 / http://www.bb-battery.com/productpages/EB/EB24-12.pdf

based on http://robomowerwiki.com/index.php/Battery_pack

I Myself, however was worried a bit about the weight of the battery, installing there, so I went for this one for now...

Batteries - 12V 12AH VRLA .250 FASTON MOBI


G
PS: I have a NA Foz, so I guess heat issues will be a bit different from the XT owners above. I can see the tarmac/road below the battery so I guess its not as hot up there.
I have not seen a XT so I cannot comment on it.
Well mine is kind of between those on weight. The eb24 looks like the same shape as mine but 3lbs or so more.

Going to try and make the bracket next weekend. I see from your pics that you stood it off a ways. i was thinking it could hang more or less right up on the metal.

Well just went an eyeballed it. i see why you came out so far. Those bolts I see in the pics are the only thing holding it? Your not running any support aft?
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