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Old 07-17-2006, 11:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I have owned my XT auto for a few months now and I am very pleased with it. However having test driven an XTE auto I do like the extra low down torque of the 2.5. Looking on the Prodrive website the PPP on a 2.0 gives virtually the same torque as a standard 2.5 so I am pondering whether to have this conversion done.

I appreciate it could be done cheaper but a) I want to keep my Subaru Warranty b)living in the wilds of North Yorkshire I want something which can be fitted and working without any hassle c) there is no problem with my car insurance as they have this conversion listed.

Perhaps some kind person could answer the following

That the PPP does not require any setting up.
If I sell the car I can refit the original parts and sell the car as standard.
Are there any drawbacks to the PPP. My Xt has done 82k. I just want the extra torque I don't want to spoil the refinement etc.

Any comments appreciated..

Incidentally my nearest agents at York and Pickering have stopped selling Subaru, they are now just service agents. Has anybody else notice this with their local people?
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Old 07-18-2006, 12:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Not sure what you mean by doesn't require any setting up ?

The PPP pack reprogrammes your ECU - on Impreza's it's done on an exchange basis ie when they fit it they replace your ECU with one sent from Prodrive with the new map on. There is no way of easily reversing this other than swapping the ECU again with a standard one. I'm sure the Forester PPP is the same deal,
They will give you your other bits back should you want them - ie Exhaust back box so that is easily changed back if needed

tbh though why would you want to put it back to standard ? PPP will add to the value of your car 2nd hand, usually approx a grand over one without..
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Old 07-18-2006, 02:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartop
Not sure what you mean by doesn't require any setting up ?

The PPP pack reprogrammes your ECU - on Impreza's it's done on an exchange basis ie when they fit it they replace your ECU with one sent from Prodrive with the new map on. There is no way of easily reversing this other than swapping the ECU again with a standard one. I'm sure the Forester PPP is the same deal,
They will give you your other bits back should you want them - ie Exhaust back box so that is easily changed back if needed

tbh though why would you want to put it back to standard ? PPP will add to the value of your car 2nd hand, usually approx a grand over one without..
By setting up I was meaning you don't have to go somewhere special to get the ECU reprogrammed.

Presumably it the ECU is replaced you would have the old one to put back if necessary.

That's good news about the price. I was thinking it would have been worth less with a performance conversion.
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Old 07-18-2006, 03:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Ahh ok - actually though as I said in the post, the ecu is exchanged, ie they get one from Prodrive with the new map, swap it with the one in your car, then send yours back to prodrive to be remapped for the next person etc..
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Old 07-18-2006, 04:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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..though why they can't do it with a laptop is still beyond me. It's a relatively generic ecutek map.... that way they could push updates out via the dealers and apply them at service time. The dealer can't sneakily apply them to stock motors as there is a licence component

<shrugs> whatever ...

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Old 07-18-2006, 05:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Steve,

I'm sure it's just as simple as Prodrive don't trust the dealers... then again who does???
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Old 07-18-2006, 10:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartop
Ahh ok - actually though as I said in the post, the ecu is exchanged, ie they get one from Prodrive with the new map, swap it with the one in your car, then send yours back to prodrive to be remapped for the next person etc..
Another senior moment to add to my ever increasing list. When you said "exchange " I was thinking "replace" not an exchange unit. Doh.
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Old 07-20-2006, 11:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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One last question is the auto box up to the 30% extra torque and was the gearbox uprated for the 2.5?
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Old 07-21-2006, 03:00 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by agkq62
Incidentally my nearest agents at York and Pickering have stopped selling Subaru, they are now just service agents. Has anybody else notice this with their local people?
Yes, my local main agent (near Cambridge) did the same thing last year. They are now main dealers for 2 other brands, but only service & parts agents for Subaru. Their explanation was that Subaru wanted them to spend a preposterous amount of money to "upgrade" the showroom and it wasn't economic. They still sell new Subarus, I believe but, not ones imported by the official agent.

PPP is tempting - got to wonder what it does to the fuel consumption though. As I see it the only way to get more power is to burn more fuel and it's already got a bit of a thirst.

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Old 07-21-2006, 03:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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PPP is tempting - got to wonder what it does to the fuel consumption though. As I see it the only way to get more power is to burn more fuel and it's already got a bit of a thirst.

-- Steve
In practice it doesn't work like that though. To get optimal power you need to run generally leaner than the stock map ( though still with a safety margin ) ... this actually means less fuel across a proportion of the map , but more added at the top end .

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Old 07-21-2006, 03:32 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Which for ordinary day-to-day driving often means that fuel economy actually improves
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Old 07-21-2006, 03:53 AM   #12 (permalink)
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well that's what I told the wife
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Old 07-21-2006, 03:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Except you're more tempted to put the foot down ;)
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Old 07-21-2006, 10:16 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Well, I would be happy to be persuaded that having a PPP might not use any extra fuel. Agkq62, if you go this route it will be interesting to hear how you find it.
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Old 07-24-2006, 01:13 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agkq62
Incidentally my nearest agents at York and Pickering have stopped selling Subaru, they are now just service agents. Has anybody else notice this with their local people?
Same here. I bought my Forester XTE 2.5 Auto from Dicksons (Inverness) in April, and when I took it in for the 1000 mile service a couple of weeks ago, I find that they've stopped selling Subarus and now sell Kias. They said that it was costing them too much to sell Subarus. I just hope they continue as Subaru service agents, since the next nearest Subaru dealer is a 470km round trip, and on the roads up here it would take all day just to get there and back!!

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